My head hurts ...

sassinak · 03-30-2018, 11:45 AM

Hi guys, need some advice from the folks here.

My K-S2 has finally bitten the bullet from the dreaded aperture block problem, so I'm looking for a replacement.

The problem is (and the reason my head hurts) is the fact that getting my hands on different models requires a 2.5 hour drive at least. I will probably need to buy then and there so want to be armed with as much info as possible beforehand.

The K-S2 was an upgrade from my K-r but much preferred the feel of the K-r in my hand so would like to find a more comfortable fit this time so another K-S2 is out. The KP is out (too pricey) and the K-3ii is also out since it has no flash - I don't use one much so don't want to carry a separate one around

This narrows the choices to the K-70 and K-3. I mainly shoot landscapes and wildlife (not macro) along with the occasional fast moving vehicle (car events and air shows).

So which of the two would you recommend and, since the K-3 would be a used one, what would be a good number of actuations?

Thanks in advance

6BQ5 · 03-30-2018, 12:05 PM - **1 Like**

Re: shutter count on a used K-3. I thought the shutter life was rated at 200k or something like that. So, if you have 10k actuations on it then you still have 95% life left. Also consider how many images you record with your camera every year. Can you look back at your images and count the number of files in a 12 month period? If you run the shutter 10k/year then you know how quickly you'll exhaust the K-3.

Personally, I consider a camera with <10k shutter actuations to be a like a brand new machine. Anything above 15k begins to be well used. 20k and up is definitely used.

Adam · 03-30-2018, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by sassinak

Hi guys, need some advice from the folks here.

My K-S2 has finally bitten the bullet from the dreaded aperture block problem, so I'm looking for a replacement.

The problem is (and the reason my head hurts) is the fact that getting my hands on different models requires a 2.5 hour drive at least. I will probably need to buy then and there so want to be armed with as much info as possible beforehand.

The K-S2 was an upgrade from my K-r but much preferred the feel of the K-r in my hand so would like to find a more comfortable fit this time so another K-S2 is out. The KP is out (too pricey) and the K-3ii is also out since it has no flash - I don't use one much so don't want to carry a separate one around

This narrows the choices to the K-70 and K-3. I mainly shoot landscapes and wildlife (not macro) along with the occasional fast moving vehicle (car events and air shows).

So which of the two would you recommend and, since the K-3 would be a used one, what would be a good number of actuations?

Thanks in advance

I'd go with the K-70. It will feel very similar to the K-S2, with improved image quality and focusing, and better ergonomics.

tvdtvdtvd · 03-30-2018, 02:13 PM

My first impulse would be to recommend the K-70, but if you really don't like the KS-2 ergonomics then you likely will not like the K-70,
which has essentially the same body design and layout. That leaves the K-3, which is probably closer in feel to the K-r but MUCH more
robust and appreciably more complex. Also note that despite being 2 years older than the KS-2, the K3 is still more advanced in some
respects, while being less advanced in others. If you haven't done so already, you should compare the two cameras side by side to
be certain there isn't anything about the KS-2 you can't live without, (like the articulating screen).

BTW, I have a K-3 and love it. No plans to upgrade until the next flagship is released. If I were to lose my K-3 today, however, I would
be in a toss up whether to replace it with a K-3II or the KP.

Last edited by tvdtvdtvd; 03-30-2018 at 02:39 PM.

**UncleVanya** · 03-30-2018, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by tvdtvdtvd

My first impulse would be to recommend the K-70, but if you really don't like the KS-2 ergonomics then you likely will not like the K-70,
which has essentially the same body design and layout. That leaves the K-3, which is probably closer in feel to the K-r but MUCH more
robust and appreciably more complex. Also note that despite being 2 years older than the KS-2, the K3 is still more advanced in some
respects, while being less advanced in others. If you haven't done so already, you should compare the two cameras side by side to
be certain there isn't anything about the KS-2 you can't live without, (like the articulating screen).

BTW, I have a K-3 and love it. No plans to upgrade until the next flagship is released. If I were to loose my K-3 today, however, I would
be in a toss up whether to replace it with a K-3II or the KP.

I can second everything said above. I too am holding my breath waiting for a new flagship APSC and love my K-3. I do think the K-70 is probably capable of a higher quality output, but the differences aren't significant enough for me to jump yet.

**shardulm** · 03-30-2018, 05:12 PM

Call me weird but I have based my choices on how many # of D-Li109s or D-Li90s I have. And I have 0 D-Li109s.
It seems D-Li109 are used in consumer-centric bodies and D-Li90s in their pro bodies. Having said that there isn't an APS-C body for D-Li90 in production. That kind of bothers me ... but then there should be a K-3ii successor waiting to happen soon unless they stop making APS-C bodies for D-Li90.

rrstuff · 03-30-2018, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by sassinak

Hi guys, need some advice from the folks here.

My K-S2 has finally bitten the bullet from the dreaded aperture block problem, so I'm looking for a replacement.

The problem is (and the reason my head hurts) is the fact that getting my hands on different models requires a 2.5 hour drive at least. I will probably need to buy then and there so want to be armed with as much info as possible beforehand.

The K-S2 was an upgrade from my K-r but much preferred the feel of the K-r in my hand so would like to find a more comfortable fit this time so another K-S2 is out. The KP is out (too pricey) and the K-3ii is also out since it has no flash - I don't use one much so don't want to carry a separate one around

This narrows the choices to the K-70 and K-3. I mainly shoot landscapes and wildlife (not macro) along with the occasional fast moving vehicle (car events and air shows).

So which of the two would you recommend and, since the K-3 would be a used one, what would be a good number of actuations?

Thanks in advance

I would go for the K-3. It will have a better autofocus, more robust build, more quiet shutter, option of getting a vertical grip, nice buttons. I think it might also have a better dust reduction system - ultrasonic as opposed to shaking the sensor using SR system. The first time I had a problem with my k-3 was after ~50,000 actuations, but it was something that doesn't happen to every camera - I had mirror mechanism's lubricant splashed on the mirror. It shows as green dots on the secondary mirror, and I have seen it in other cameras too (e.g. Nikon D700 with 300k actuations). I bet you will be able to find something below 20k actuations on ebay.

**UncleVanya** · 03-30-2018, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by shardulm

Call me weird but I have based my choices on how many # of D-Li109s or D-Li90s I have. And I have 0 D-Li109s.
It seems D-Li109 are used in consumer-centric bodies and D-Li90s in their pro bodies. Having said that there isn't an APS-C body for D-Li90 in production. That kind of bothers me ... but then there should be a K-3ii successor waiting to happen soon unless they stop making APS-C bodies for D-Li90.

The KP's grip will take the Li90's... but that was not one of your choices you wanted to consider if I recall.

**mikesbike** · 03-30-2018, 11:06 PM

I've never held one, but the K-70 has been reported as having a slightly more substantial grip than the K-S2, which I like because it is so small. I had the K-r for a number of years. It seems to me the K-70 should approximate that feel, though it is a heavier body.

Jonathan Mac · 03-31-2018, 06:46 AM

Though reports of failures have been fewer, I think that the K-70 also suffers from the dreaded aperture-block failure. I'd go for a lightly used K-3 or perhaps a K-5 II.

**mikesbike** · 03-31-2018, 10:52 PM

If you go for the K-5 II, I suggest the K-5 IIs, which like the K-70 and K-3 does not have the AA filter. The filter was omitted from these cameras for better resolution of fine detail in images.

ddharriman · 04-01-2018, 04:18 AM

SRS Mcrosystems has 2 K3's for sale now that can be checked on their website.

Best regards,

tibbitts · 04-01-2018, 09:22 AM

You may be overthinking this. The choice of FF vs. APS is more important than which body, because lens choice is involved. Not that I think lenses are "forever" either, but they do have a longer lifespan.

Since you mentioned landscapes... something I didn't originally appreciate when I switched to digital was how fast bodies can wear out. I rarely shoot action, which is one reason for using up lots of cycles, but I take lots of pictures with foliage and tree branches and moving water, and by taking thirty pictures of the same scene instead of three, you greatly increase the odds that you'll get one you like. With water, you can't predict ahead of time what you'll get with a slow exposure of moving water. Take thirty and they'll all be different. And with foliage, you're still usually using slow speeds at base ISO or close to it (with me maybe 1/15 on average), and there's almost always wind movement. Sometimes it's okay, other times it affects a critical part of the composition. You don't have the time to check every part of an image for that while you're taking the pictures. So blasting away (well, with a few seconds between exposures) sometimes gets you better results. But you can wear out the moving parts of the body that way - if you don't choose to move on to a newer body design in the meantime.

normhead · 04-01-2018, 09:50 AM

My head always hurts when I think about buying anything....

I wasn't aware that the KS series was subject to aperture block failure. How do I know they fixed that on the KP? How can to be that Pentax after all these incarnations haven't addressed this?

Now that makes my head hurt.

But apart from that, and given the aperture block failure thing, I'd look for a really good price on a K-70. My K_3 is 4 yearsold and I plan on getting at least 5 out of it and I shoot over 10,000 images a year with it. If there's a chance the camera won't last 5 years, I'm not buying, The aperture block failure is caused by a $10 part, it's ludicrous it hasn't been corrected.

With a K-1, K-3 and K-5 at least I have the peace of mind of knowing I won't be affected.

tibbitts · 04-01-2018, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by normhead

My head always hurts when I think about buying anything....

I wasn't aware that the KS series was subject to aperture block failure. How do I know they fixed that on the KP? How can to be that Pentax after all these incarnations haven't addressed this?

Now that makes my head hurt.

But apart from that, and given the aperture block failure thing, I'd look for a really good price on a K-70. My K_3 is 4 yearsold and I plan on getting at least 5 out of it and I shoot over 10,000 images a year with it. If there's a chance the camera won't last 5 years, I'm not buying, The aperture block failure is caused by a $10 part, it's ludicrous it hasn't been corrected.

With a K-1, K-3 and K-5 at least I have the peace of mind of knowing I won't be affected.

I had thought the aperture block issue had been resolved in the K70, but that would be a consideration if not. Hopefully someone knows and will comment. My main point was the body choice isn't a permanent thing, or even as relatively permanent as lenses. But absolutely you should be able to get more than 50k cycles out of any body.

03-30-2018, 11:45 AM	#1
sassinak Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Nottinghamshire, UK Posts: 77	My head hurts ... Hi guys, need some advice from the folks here. My K-S2 has finally bitten the bullet from the dreaded aperture block problem, so I'm looking for a replacement. The problem is (and the reason my head hurts) is the fact that getting my hands on different models requires a 2.5 hour drive at least. I will probably need to buy then and there so want to be armed with as much info as possible beforehand. The K-S2 was an upgrade from my K-r but much preferred the feel of the K-r in my hand so would like to find a more comfortable fit this time so another K-S2 is out. The KP is out (too pricey) and the K-3ii is also out since it has no flash - I don't use one much so don't want to carry a separate one around This narrows the choices to the K-70 and K-3. I mainly shoot landscapes and wildlife (not macro) along with the occasional fast moving vehicle (car events and air shows). So which of the two would you recommend and, since the K-3 would be a used one, what would be a good number of actuations? Thanks in advance

03-30-2018, 12:58 PM	#3
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	Originally posted by sassinak Hi guys, need some advice from the folks here. My K-S2 has finally bitten the bullet from the dreaded aperture block problem, so I'm looking for a replacement. The problem is (and the reason my head hurts) is the fact that getting my hands on different models requires a 2.5 hour drive at least. I will probably need to buy then and there so want to be armed with as much info as possible beforehand. The K-S2 was an upgrade from my K-r but much preferred the feel of the K-r in my hand so would like to find a more comfortable fit this time so another K-S2 is out. The KP is out (too pricey) and the K-3ii is also out since it has no flash - I don't use one much so don't want to carry a separate one around This narrows the choices to the K-70 and K-3. I mainly shoot landscapes and wildlife (not macro) along with the occasional fast moving vehicle (car events and air shows). So which of the two would you recommend and, since the K-3 would be a used one, what would be a good number of actuations? Thanks in advance I'd go with the K-70. It will feel very similar to the K-S2, with improved image quality and focusing, and better ergonomics. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
My thumb hurts	moviedude	Welcomes and Introductions	6	11-05-2012 03:58 PM
my head hurts	catt410	Troubleshooting and Beginner Help	2	07-03-2009 03:09 PM
Which kit lens with a K200D? My head hurts...	Desi	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	12	04-09-2009 09:08 PM
Ow my braind hurts.	levelred	Pentax DSLR Discussion	16	08-21-2008 12:36 PM
It hurts my heart and makes me angry	Igilligan	Post Your Photos!	10	06-03-2008 03:44 AM

03-30-2018, 12:05 PM - 1 Like	#2
6BQ5 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Nevada, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,348	Re: shutter count on a used K-3. I thought the shutter life was rated at 200k or something like that. So, if you have 10k actuations on it then you still have 95% life left. Also consider how many images you record with your camera every year. Can you look back at your images and count the number of files in a 12 month period? If you run the shutter 10k/year then you know how quickly you'll exhaust the K-3. Personally, I consider a camera with <10k shutter actuations to be a like a brand new machine. Anything above 15k begins to be well used. 20k and up is definitely used.

03-30-2018, 02:13 PM	#4
tvdtvdtvd Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,665	My first impulse would be to recommend the K-70, but if you really don't like the KS-2 ergonomics then you likely will not like the K-70, which has essentially the same body design and layout. That leaves the K-3, which is probably closer in feel to the K-r but MUCH more robust and appreciably more complex. Also note that despite being 2 years older than the KS-2, the K3 is still more advanced in some respects, while being less advanced in others. If you haven't done so already, you should compare the two cameras side by side to be certain there isn't anything about the KS-2 you can't live without, (like the articulating screen). BTW, I have a K-3 and love it. No plans to upgrade until the next flagship is released. If I were to lose my K-3 today, however, I would be in a toss up whether to replace it with a K-3II or the KP. Last edited by tvdtvdtvd; 03-30-2018 at 02:39 PM.

03-30-2018, 02:19 PM	#5
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,405	Originally posted by tvdtvdtvd My first impulse would be to recommend the K-70, but if you really don't like the KS-2 ergonomics then you likely will not like the K-70, which has essentially the same body design and layout. That leaves the K-3, which is probably closer in feel to the K-r but MUCH more robust and appreciably more complex. Also note that despite being 2 years older than the KS-2, the K3 is still more advanced in some respects, while being less advanced in others. If you haven't done so already, you should compare the two cameras side by side to be certain there isn't anything about the KS-2 you can't live without, (like the articulating screen). BTW, I have a K-3 and love it. No plans to upgrade until the next flagship is released. If I were to loose my K-3 today, however, I would be in a toss up whether to replace it with a K-3II or the KP. I can second everything said above. I too am holding my breath waiting for a new flagship APSC and love my K-3. I do think the K-70 is probably capable of a higher quality output, but the differences aren't significant enough for me to jump yet.

03-30-2018, 05:12 PM	#6
shardulm Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Cumming, GA Posts: 793	Call me weird but I have based my choices on how many # of D-Li109s or D-Li90s I have. And I have 0 D-Li109s. It seems D-Li109 are used in consumer-centric bodies and D-Li90s in their pro bodies. Having said that there isn't an APS-C body for D-Li90 in production. That kind of bothers me ... but then there should be a K-3ii successor waiting to happen soon unless they stop making APS-C bodies for D-Li90.

03-30-2018, 08:08 PM	#7
rrstuff Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Pasadena, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,126	Originally posted by sassinak Hi guys, need some advice from the folks here. My K-S2 has finally bitten the bullet from the dreaded aperture block problem, so I'm looking for a replacement. The problem is (and the reason my head hurts) is the fact that getting my hands on different models requires a 2.5 hour drive at least. I will probably need to buy then and there so want to be armed with as much info as possible beforehand. The K-S2 was an upgrade from my K-r but much preferred the feel of the K-r in my hand so would like to find a more comfortable fit this time so another K-S2 is out. The KP is out (too pricey) and the K-3ii is also out since it has no flash - I don't use one much so don't want to carry a separate one around This narrows the choices to the K-70 and K-3. I mainly shoot landscapes and wildlife (not macro) along with the occasional fast moving vehicle (car events and air shows). So which of the two would you recommend and, since the K-3 would be a used one, what would be a good number of actuations? Thanks in advance I would go for the K-3. It will have a better autofocus, more robust build, more quiet shutter, option of getting a vertical grip, nice buttons. I think it might also have a better dust reduction system - ultrasonic as opposed to shaking the sensor using SR system. The first time I had a problem with my k-3 was after ~50,000 actuations, but it was something that doesn't happen to every camera - I had mirror mechanism's lubricant splashed on the mirror. It shows as green dots on the secondary mirror, and I have seen it in other cameras too (e.g. Nikon D700 with 300k actuations). I bet you will be able to find something below 20k actuations on ebay.

03-30-2018, 09:41 PM	#8
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,405	Originally posted by shardulm Call me weird but I have based my choices on how many # of D-Li109s or D-Li90s I have. And I have 0 D-Li109s. It seems D-Li109 are used in consumer-centric bodies and D-Li90s in their pro bodies. Having said that there isn't an APS-C body for D-Li90 in production. That kind of bothers me ... but then there should be a K-3ii successor waiting to happen soon unless they stop making APS-C bodies for D-Li90. The KP's grip will take the Li90's... but that was not one of your choices you wanted to consider if I recall.

03-30-2018, 11:06 PM	#9
mikesbike Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 4,549	I've never held one, but the K-70 has been reported as having a slightly more substantial grip than the K-S2, which I like because it is so small. I had the K-r for a number of years. It seems to me the K-70 should approximate that feel, though it is a heavier body.

03-31-2018, 06:46 AM	#10
Jonathan Mac Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 10,897	Though reports of failures have been fewer, I think that the K-70 also suffers from the dreaded aperture-block failure. I'd go for a lightly used K-3 or perhaps a K-5 II.

03-31-2018, 10:52 PM	#11
mikesbike Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 4,549	If you go for the K-5 II, I suggest the K-5 IIs, which like the K-70 and K-3 does not have the AA filter. The filter was omitted from these cameras for better resolution of fine detail in images.

04-01-2018, 04:18 AM	#12
ddharriman Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 345	SRS Mcrosystems has 2 K3's for sale now that can be checked on their website. Best regards,

04-01-2018, 09:22 AM	#13
tibbitts Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Oklahoma USA Posts: 2,193	You may be overthinking this. The choice of FF vs. APS is more important than which body, because lens choice is involved. Not that I think lenses are "forever" either, but they do have a longer lifespan. Since you mentioned landscapes... something I didn't originally appreciate when I switched to digital was how fast bodies can wear out. I rarely shoot action, which is one reason for using up lots of cycles, but I take lots of pictures with foliage and tree branches and moving water, and by taking thirty pictures of the same scene instead of three, you greatly increase the odds that you'll get one you like. With water, you can't predict ahead of time what you'll get with a slow exposure of moving water. Take thirty and they'll all be different. And with foliage, you're still usually using slow speeds at base ISO or close to it (with me maybe 1/15 on average), and there's almost always wind movement. Sometimes it's okay, other times it affects a critical part of the composition. You don't have the time to check every part of an image for that while you're taking the pictures. So blasting away (well, with a few seconds between exposures) sometimes gets you better results. But you can wear out the moving parts of the body that way - if you don't choose to move on to a newer body design in the meantime.

04-01-2018, 09:50 AM	#14
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	My head always hurts when I think about buying anything.... I wasn't aware that the KS series was subject to aperture block failure. How do I know they fixed that on the KP? How can to be that Pentax after all these incarnations haven't addressed this? Now that makes my head hurt. But apart from that, and given the aperture block failure thing, I'd look for a really good price on a K-70. My K_3 is 4 yearsold and I plan on getting at least 5 out of it and I shoot over 10,000 images a year with it. If there's a chance the camera won't last 5 years, I'm not buying, The aperture block failure is caused by a $10 part, it's ludicrous it hasn't been corrected. With a K-1, K-3 and K-5 at least I have the peace of mind of knowing I won't be affected.

04-01-2018, 12:41 PM	#15
tibbitts Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Oklahoma USA Posts: 2,193	Originally posted by normhead My head always hurts when I think about buying anything.... I wasn't aware that the KS series was subject to aperture block failure. How do I know they fixed that on the KP? How can to be that Pentax after all these incarnations haven't addressed this? Now that makes my head hurt. But apart from that, and given the aperture block failure thing, I'd look for a really good price on a K-70. My K_3 is 4 yearsold and I plan on getting at least 5 out of it and I shoot over 10,000 images a year with it. If there's a chance the camera won't last 5 years, I'm not buying, The aperture block failure is caused by a $10 part, it's ludicrous it hasn't been corrected. With a K-1, K-3 and K-5 at least I have the peace of mind of knowing I won't be affected. I had thought the aperture block issue had been resolved in the K70, but that would be a consideration if not. Hopefully someone knows and will comment. My main point was the body choice isn't a permanent thing, or even as relatively permanent as lenses. But absolutely you should be able to get more than 50k cycles out of any body.