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04-30-2018, 08:32 PM   #1
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Question: FA 77 and moon, exposure problem

Hi,

FA 77, K3, AV mode, spot metering: full moon is all white, overexposed. Is this as it should be or I am doing something wrong?

Also, with underexposing, I can get a good exposure for the moon, but then the small star/planet close to the moon completely disappears. Anything I can do to have them both in the picture?

Thanks.


Last edited by kamisu; 04-30-2018 at 08:42 PM.
04-30-2018, 08:46 PM   #2
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I would just meter manually until you get a good result. Try to keep the shutter speed fast enough to avoid motion blur.

As for the background, I'd shoot a separate exposure for that, then combine the two.

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04-30-2018, 09:05 PM - 1 Like   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by kamisu Quote
FA 77, K3, AV mode, spot metering: full moon is all white, overexposed. Is this as it should be or I am doing something wrong?
Where was the center spot metering? If on the the moon, one would expect at least two stops underexposure. If on the black of space, the moon should be completely blown out overexposed. Conventional wisdom around these parts is ignore the meter, shoot in M mode, and calculate the exposure using the Looney 11 rule for exposure estimation.

Think of it this way, the surface of the moon is basically a sunlit desert landscape and may be treated as such, exposure-wise. There is no need for high ISO or fast lenses. The full moon has an LV (EV at ISO 100) of about 15.* That is only one stop less than sand or snow in full sun. LV 15 translates to a good starting point exposure of 1/250s and f/11 at ISO 100. Using traditional Looney 11, LV 14 would be the starting point (1/125s and f/11 at ISO 100).

QuoteOriginally posted by kamisu Quote
Also, with underexposing, I can get a good exposure for the moon, but then the small star/planet close to the moon completely disappears. Anything I can do to have them both in the picture?
Show the star, blow the moon...show the moon, clip the star. If you want them both, do what the pros do and make a composite based on two different exposures.


Steve

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Exposure value - Wikipedia
Looney 11 rule - Wikipedia

Last edited by stevebrot; 05-01-2018 at 07:52 AM.
04-30-2018, 09:34 PM   #4
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Thanks Adam.

Steve, thanks for the complete explanation. Center spot metering was on the full moon, so may be the sensor for spot metering is not small enough (for FA 77/moon) and covers dark sky too. With 60-250 at 250 mm I did not have such problem.

How can I make the composite image if I already have two images with different exposures for the moon and star? Does it need a software?


Last edited by kamisu; 04-30-2018 at 10:09 PM.
04-30-2018, 10:38 PM - 1 Like   #5
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When shooting the moon think of the sunny sixteen rule. It’s a face in direct sunlight, so you shoot it at f/16 and your shutter speed is one over your ISO (f/16 at 1/100th of a second). Even that may over expose a little on a full moon, but it will be close.
05-01-2018, 01:51 AM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by kamisu Quote
How can I make the composite image if I already have two images with different exposures for the moon and star? Does it need a software?
You will need some editing software, payware like photoshop, or freeware.

Here is a composite image I took earlier this year. In the original shots when the moon was correctly exposed, the trees and clouds were all completely dark, and when the clouds and trees were exposed as here to bring out detail , the moon was overexposed. I cut the moon from the first exposure and popped it onto the second.

05-01-2018, 02:20 AM - 2 Likes   #7
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DA 300mm plus 1.4X TC, ISO 100, f 5.6m 1/800s

Manual everything, mirror up, camera K1 mounted on a tripod and remote shutter release.

PP in Lightroom with chromatic aberration reduction and profile correction, dehazing and boosted clarity and vibrance.

The moon moves through the sky very quickly and it is very bright so you need to have high shutter speed and under-expose reltive to what you expect to be correct.
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05-01-2018, 05:47 AM - 1 Like   #8
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When shooting the moon I usually follow the looney 11 rule. Typically I use f/8, ISO 200 and 1/400s and get good results. Those settings where used for this moon picture (100% crop) which was taken with a M42 mount Vivitar 200mm f/3.5 lens.


For pictures with the moon in them it is going to likely have to be a composite image as the moon is so much brighter than everything around it so expose for the moon in one picture and then expose for everything else. Personally I like the dark silhouettes of things in front of the moon so that is what I have typically gone for when shooting scenes with the moon in them.

05-01-2018, 07:49 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by kamisu Quote
so may be the sensor for spot metering is not small enough (for FA 77/moon)
Good point!


Steve
05-01-2018, 07:51 AM   #10
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BWG, Pschlute, Billk, Mossyrocks; thanks for the comments.
05-01-2018, 11:20 AM - 2 Likes   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by kamisu Quote
BWG, Pschlute, Billk, Mossyrocks; thanks for the comments.
Always happy to help and share things I know something about which seems to be far too little here.
05-01-2018, 02:42 PM   #12
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The last two moon photos seem to have the moon positioned at 90-degree angles to each other. I didn't know it rotated that much!
05-01-2018, 03:06 PM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by leekil Quote
The last two moon photos seem to have the moon positioned at 90-degree angles to each other. I didn't know it rotated that much!
The pics were a month apart in time and nearly opposite sides of the earth, It's a wonder you couldn't see the back side of the moon!
05-01-2018, 04:13 PM - 1 Like   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by leekil Quote
The last two moon photos seem to have the moon positioned at 90-degree angles to each other. I didn't know it rotated that much!
We both shot it correctly and didn't flip it in post processing (which has been suggested to me every time I post a moon shot).

The water also runs down the plug hole the other way around here and we get the best views of the Milky Way.
05-02-2018, 04:10 AM - 1 Like   #15
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From Spaceweather.com:
The rocking motions are called libration; because of libration we can observe not just 50% but rather 59% of the Moon's surface.

Spaceweather Glossary: Lunar Libration
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