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02-23-2007, 11:49 AM   #1
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ACR 3.7 = new problem

So now that Adobe supports DNG and PEF what's a K10 owner to do? When I first got the camera it was simple. I wanted to continue with my Adobe workflow, and PEF was not supported, so I shot DNG. Now that I am plagued with choice, I have to ask this question in light of actually having the option now. PEF or DNG if you are using an Adobe workflow?

In the past some have shot in their native raw and as one of there last steps in their initial workflow have converted from their raw format to DNG. Does anybody actual shoot PEF and then later convert to DNG? That seems a tad ludicrous on the surface 'cause you can just 'flick a switch' on the camera to avoid that step altogether.

02-23-2007, 12:01 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by jnorth Quote
So now that Adobe supports DNG and PEF what's a K10 owner to do? When I first got the camera it was simple. I wanted to continue with my Adobe workflow, and PEF was not supported, so I shot DNG. Now that I am plagued with choice, I have to ask this question in light of actually having the option now. PEF or DNG if you are using an Adobe workflow?

In the past some have shot in their native raw and as one of there last steps in their initial workflow have converted from their raw format to DNG. Does anybody actual shoot PEF and then later convert to DNG? That seems a tad ludicrous on the surface 'cause you can just 'flick a switch' on the camera to avoid that step altogether.
Yes, I shoot PEF and convert to DNG upon import into Lightroom 1.0. Now, I have a K100D, not a K10D, so I don't even have the option of saving to DNG in the camera. But from what I've read about the K10D, the DNG files are considerably larger than the PEF files, so even though I like DNG as an ultimate result format, if I had a K10D, I think I would still shoot in PEF just to be able to get more pictures on a card. NOTE that since I convert on import into Lightroom - in other words, since I convert at the moment the files are copied from the card - it's not any more trouble than it would be for me to have the files converted already in the camera. Not sure whether other Raw workflow apps can do this, but I expect that at least some of them can.

By the way, the PEF files created by my 6.1 MP K100D are about 10 MB each. The DNG files that Lightroom converts those PEFs to are about half that size - about 5 MB each. Not sure why the DNG files on the K10D are so much LARGER than the PEF files. I would guess that Pentax isn't compressing them, but I'm not sure. I've been told by someone at Adobe that the DNG files created by conversion in Lightroom ARE losslessly compressed.

Will
02-23-2007, 01:30 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
Yes, I shoot PEF and convert to DNG upon import into Lightroom 1.0. Now, I have a K100D, not a K10D, so I don't even have the option of saving to DNG in the camera. But from what I've read about the K10D, the DNG files are considerably larger than the PEF files, so even though I like DNG as an ultimate result format, if I had a K10D, I think I would still shoot in PEF just to be able to get more pictures on a card. NOTE that since I convert on import into Lightroom - in other words, since I convert at the moment the files are copied from the card - it's not any more trouble than it would be for me to have the files converted already in the camera.
I have the K10D and do exactly what you proposed in Lightroom 1.0 for exactly these reasons.

DNG of the camera would be appr. 16MB, so I use PEF, which is much smaller.
The lossless compression in Lightroom to DNG (compressed) results in appr. 9MB.

Another advantage of this workflow is, that this compressed DNG has obviously a wider acceptance in other programs. You can see thumbs in e.g. Picasa
(I like it as a viewer very much, especially the cool feeling during scrolling!).

So at the moment I am not even planning to create jpgs in general. Only, if I need to print photos etc. But I am not sure about this workflow yet. I have the feeling, that my development setting could get lost. But this is more a Lightroom topic.

Best regards
Jacob
02-23-2007, 01:45 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jacob Quote
Another advantage of this workflow is, that this compressed DNG has obviously a wider acceptance in other programs. You can see thumbs in e.g. Picasa ...

So at the moment I am not even planning to create jpgs in general. Only, if I need to print photos etc. But I am not sure about this workflow yet. I have the feeling, that my development setting could get lost. But this is more a Lightroom topic.
Don't mean to sidetrack the thread, but what I do is
  1. shoot in K100D to PEF;
  2. import into Lightroom and convert to DNG at same time;
  3. post-process the photos;
  4. export to JPEG into a completely different folder structure.
That completely different folder structure "belongs" to Picasa. In other words, I have one folder structure for Raw files, which belongs to Lightroom; another folder structure for JPEGs, which is owned by Picasa. Works for me.

Will

02-23-2007, 01:47 PM   #5
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I generally have more cards available than I can fill in a session so 16 - 9 megs is not so much an issue.

The DNG compatibility with other players is something to consider though.

When using my DS I shoot PEF and convert to DNG. Up until the new ACR I shot DNG with my K10D. Maybe I'll switch to PEF and do the DNG conversion in the workflow for the compatibility issue.
02-23-2007, 01:49 PM   #6
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Lightroom does appear to be the monkeywrench/fly in the ointment at this stage. With it's easy integration, JPEGs may be, well, who knows. You can print straight from either Lightroom or Photoshop and maintain color management without saving any file except to back-up edits.

Outsourcing prints will require an additional file in JPEG or TIFF--but again, an automatic function that can be 'batched' rather easily. Including cleanup!

PEF off he camera seems a must to maximize card usage. Having a reader for DNG and the fact that they can automatically be made in a compressed form without interrupting workflow makes them a sensible alternative to PEF+JPEG in archives.
02-23-2007, 04:05 PM   #7
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I must say that I am not into Raw + JPEG. I would much rather generate any JPEG's I need from a Raw format that has already had basic adjustments performed or from Photoshop after any extensive pp work. I see the JPEG side of a Raw +, only advantageous if there is no tweeking performed at all, and I can generally find either an exposure or an artistic kind of tweek, if not many, in my images. Of course this is what works for me. Everybody has their own workflow even if we use the same tools we seem to manage atleast a small aspect that works better for ourselves.
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