Dpreview admitted they screwed up the K1ii review...

Cambo · 05-15-2018, 11:21 AM

They are redoing their disastrous K1ii review, and studio scene.

We will be re-shooting the scene.: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Good.

Cheers,
Cameron

lytrytyr · 05-15-2018, 11:44 AM

Do we give them a click to watch them eat crow? I don't think so.

6BQ5 · 05-15-2018, 11:48 AM

If people didn't know about the K-1 before then they sure do now. All publicity is good publicity. The Ricoh/Pentax have become (in)famous!

**Rondec** · 05-15-2018, 12:03 PM - **1 Like**

I frankly doubt that this is going to change anything. They still like Sony's recent products a lot better and I don't see why that would change with a reshoot of the DP Review comparison widget.

**monochrome** · 05-15-2018, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

I frankly doubt that this is going to change anything. They still like Sony's recent products a lot better and I don't see why that would change with a reshoot of the DP Review comparison widget.

Agreed. I don’t think they’ll change the Conclusion. They have a standard for the features and spec.s that they believe make a camera good and K-1ll lacks many of them. We don’t agree with that standard, which is why we buy Pentax, but that alone doesn’t make their Score incorrect.

I take issue with their vitriolic tone. Richard Butler might clean up some of the more egregious language. Or not.

**mikesbike** · 05-15-2018, 12:51 PM - **1 Like**

Their main criticism is the effect of the accelerator and added noise reduction with less clarity as applied in the K-1 II, and the less satisfactory hand-held pixel shift vs. traditional as in the original K-1. These may be valid criticisms, and if so make the original K-1 an even better bargain.

Their setting of "Auto" in the Custom Image menu instead of the standard "Bright" could very well explain the lower quality JPEGs in the new model. They should be aware of the need to adjust sharpening level upward in camera models with very conservative default sharpening, as well as adding "Fine Sharpening". They have noted these factors in past Pentax models.

mee · 05-15-2018, 06:09 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Rondec

I frankly doubt that this is going to change anything. They still like Sony's recent products a lot better and I don't see why that would change with a reshoot of the DP Review comparison widget.

On the whole I agree. But at least the image scene comparison should be more honest and comparable.

Yet I don't blame them for liking Sony recently... Sony is spending money on growth and on notable and consistent product iterations. DPR is a gear (tech) review site so Sony is right up their alley. Pentax lives in a different world governed by different principles. If anyone expected DPR fanfare for reheated tech in another DSLR body they were only kidding themself.

Macario · 05-16-2018, 12:28 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by mikesbike

Their main criticism is the effect of the accelerator and added noise reduction with less clarity as applied in the K-1 II, and the less satisfactory hand-held pixel shift vs. traditional as in the original K-1. These may be valid criticisms, and if so make the original K-1 an even better bargain.

Their setting of "Auto" in the Custom Image menu instead of the standard "Bright" could very well explain the lower quality JPEGs in the new model. They should be aware of the need to adjust sharpening level upward in camera models with very conservative default sharpening, as well as adding "Fine Sharpening". They have noted these factors in past Pentax models.

The pixelshift conclusion is wrong. The dynamic pixel shift is an extra, you can still use the tradidional pixel shift

pentaxfall · 05-16-2018, 01:40 AM

DPR should hire based on photography experience, not based on number of PHD, academics.

beholder3 · 05-16-2018, 02:22 AM - **1 Like**

All what their are doing now is peanuts and not addressing their credibility / integrity / professionalism issue at all.

They swapped out a key data file silently days after it was presented as evidence for their conclusions and then one of the responsible persons denied it even happened against all evidence.

The kid has been caught in the act on security cam with the hand in the pot of marmelade and when questioned said "I did't touch the marmelade."

The misbehaviour is not solved by the kid now agreeing to wash his hands. Nor does this restore integrity or credibility at all.

Kunzite · 05-16-2018, 04:35 AM - **1 Like**

I believe there are some good people at DPR. Simon Joinson apologized, two years ago, for the WaterFAILS article.
But others are ruining their efforts.

bdery · 05-16-2018, 05:30 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Macario

The pixelshift conclusion is wrong. The dynamic pixel shift is an extra, you can still use the tradidional pixel shift

Correct.

Originally posted by beholder3

All what their are doing now is peanuts and not addressing their credibility / integrity / professionalism issue at all.

They swapped out a key data file silently days after it was presented as evidence for their conclusions and then one of the responsible persons denied it even happened against all evidence.

The kid has been caught in the act on security cam with the hand in the pot of marmelade and when questioned said "I did't touch the marmelade."

The misbehaviour is not solved by the kid now agreeing to wash his hands. Nor does this restore integrity or credibility at all.

Correct. And a very relevant analogy.

Originally posted by Kunzite

I believe there are some good people at DPR. Simon Joinson apologized, two years ago, for the WaterFAILS article.
But others are ruining their efforts.

If there are good people there, they should speak up, set things right, or leave.

Let's be honest. DPreview is probably the best-known source of photography information on the web. They have a unique position. And they take advantage of that position to push the brands they like (or get paid to like), criticize unfairly brands they don't like, ignore what could cast a shadow on the brands they like (remember the K-3 review fiasco?).

The least we could expect is some sort of objectivity, rigorous testing, and giving credit where credit is due. As it is, they sound like Apple fanboys claiming "you totally invented that!"

As a reviewer (and optical designer regularly designing and performing equipment tests) I feel insulted that they get so much credit for doing such a crappy job.

Rico · 05-16-2018, 06:07 AM - **1 Like**

The DPR sample galleries show they know little about photography. The images they posted for the K-1MKII wouldn't make it past a critique in a basic Photography 101 class. This is true for all the sample image galleries they post regardless of brand.

beholder3 · 05-16-2018, 07:45 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Kunzite

I believe there are some good people at DPR. Simon Joinson apologized, two years ago, for the WaterFAILS article.
But others are ruining their efforts.

In no group if people everyone is a baddie and certainly dpr also has good folks and what you mentioned is a good move.

But that doesnt mean that everyone is a goodie either.

It is not that difficult for any reader to analyze who was involved in which bad actions and how he reacted to people highlighting his failures.

The is a loud message between the lines as well:
It wasn't the kid with the finders in the pot of marmelade who now wrote "I messed up, I am going to wash my hands".
The mother had to wade in and say "We messed up. Some now will have to wash his fingers"

In medieval Japan the mother now would commit harakiri.

reh321 · 05-16-2018, 07:57 AM

Originally posted by Rico

The DPR sample galleries show they know little about photography. The images they posted for the K-1MKII wouldn't make it past a critique in a basic Photography 101 class. This is true for all the sample image galleries they post regardless of brand.

Are you judging these as "art", or as "examples to show something"?

05-15-2018, 11:21 AM	#1
Cambo Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,016	Dpreview admitted they screwed up the K1ii review... They are redoing their disastrous K1ii review, and studio scene. We will be re-shooting the scene.: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review Good. Cheers, Cameron

05-15-2018, 12:51 PM - 1 Like	#6
mikesbike Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 4,558	Their main criticism is the effect of the accelerator and added noise reduction with less clarity as applied in the K-1 II, and the less satisfactory hand-held pixel shift vs. traditional as in the original K-1. These may be valid criticisms, and if so make the original K-1 an even better bargain. Their setting of "Auto" in the Custom Image menu instead of the standard "Bright" could very well explain the lower quality JPEGs in the new model. They should be aware of the need to adjust sharpening level upward in camera models with very conservative default sharpening, as well as adding "Fine Sharpening". They have noted these factors in past Pentax models. Last edited by mikesbike; 05-15-2018 at 12:57 PM.

05-16-2018, 02:22 AM - 1 Like	#10
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	the tainted integrity issue All what their are doing now is peanuts and not addressing their credibility / integrity / professionalism issue at all. They swapped out a key data file silently days after it was presented as evidence for their conclusions and then one of the responsible persons denied it even happened against all evidence. The kid has been caught in the act on security cam with the hand in the pot of marmelade and when questioned said "I did't touch the marmelade." The misbehaviour is not solved by the kid now agreeing to wash his hands. Nor does this restore integrity or credibility at all.

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05-15-2018, 11:44 AM	#2
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Do we give them a click to watch them eat crow? I don't think so.

05-15-2018, 11:48 AM	#3
6BQ5 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Nevada, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,348	If people didn't know about the K-1 before then they sure do now. All publicity is good publicity. The Ricoh/Pentax have become (in)famous!

05-15-2018, 12:03 PM - 1 Like	#4
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	I frankly doubt that this is going to change anything. They still like Sony's recent products a lot better and I don't see why that would change with a reshoot of the DP Review comparison widget.

05-15-2018, 12:11 PM	#5
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Rondec I frankly doubt that this is going to change anything. They still like Sony's recent products a lot better and I don't see why that would change with a reshoot of the DP Review comparison widget. Agreed. I don’t think they’ll change the Conclusion. They have a standard for the features and spec.s that they believe make a camera good and K-1ll lacks many of them. We don’t agree with that standard, which is why we buy Pentax, but that alone doesn’t make their Score incorrect. I take issue with their vitriolic tone. Richard Butler might clean up some of the more egregious language. Or not.

05-15-2018, 06:09 PM - 1 Like	#7
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by Rondec I frankly doubt that this is going to change anything. They still like Sony's recent products a lot better and I don't see why that would change with a reshoot of the DP Review comparison widget. On the whole I agree. But at least the image scene comparison should be more honest and comparable. Yet I don't blame them for liking Sony recently... Sony is spending money on growth and on notable and consistent product iterations. DPR is a gear (tech) review site so Sony is right up their alley. Pentax lives in a different world governed by different principles. If anyone expected DPR fanfare for reheated tech in another DSLR body they were only kidding themself.

05-16-2018, 12:28 AM - 1 Like	#8
Macario Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Hoek van Holland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,393	Originally posted by mikesbike Their main criticism is the effect of the accelerator and added noise reduction with less clarity as applied in the K-1 II, and the less satisfactory hand-held pixel shift vs. traditional as in the original K-1. These may be valid criticisms, and if so make the original K-1 an even better bargain. Their setting of "Auto" in the Custom Image menu instead of the standard "Bright" could very well explain the lower quality JPEGs in the new model. They should be aware of the need to adjust sharpening level upward in camera models with very conservative default sharpening, as well as adding "Fine Sharpening". They have noted these factors in past Pentax models. The pixelshift conclusion is wrong. The dynamic pixel shift is an extra, you can still use the tradidional pixel shift

05-16-2018, 01:40 AM	#9
pentaxfall Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Bangalore, India Posts: 581	DPR should hire based on photography experience, not based on number of PHD, academics.

05-16-2018, 04:35 AM - 1 Like	#11
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	I believe there are some good people at DPR. Simon Joinson apologized, two years ago, for the WaterFAILS article. But others are ruining their efforts.

05-16-2018, 05:30 AM - 1 Like	#12
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,360	Originally posted by Macario The pixelshift conclusion is wrong. The dynamic pixel shift is an extra, you can still use the tradidional pixel shift Correct. Originally posted by beholder3 All what their are doing now is peanuts and not addressing their credibility / integrity / professionalism issue at all. They swapped out a key data file silently days after it was presented as evidence for their conclusions and then one of the responsible persons denied it even happened against all evidence. The kid has been caught in the act on security cam with the hand in the pot of marmelade and when questioned said "I did't touch the marmelade." The misbehaviour is not solved by the kid now agreeing to wash his hands. Nor does this restore integrity or credibility at all. Correct. And a very relevant analogy. Originally posted by Kunzite I believe there are some good people at DPR. Simon Joinson apologized, two years ago, for the WaterFAILS article. But others are ruining their efforts. If there are good people there, they should speak up, set things right, or leave. Let's be honest. DPreview is probably the best-known source of photography information on the web. They have a unique position. And they take advantage of that position to push the brands they like (or get paid to like), criticize unfairly brands they don't like, ignore what could cast a shadow on the brands they like (remember the K-3 review fiasco?). The least we could expect is some sort of objectivity, rigorous testing, and giving credit where credit is due. As it is, they sound like Apple fanboys claiming "you totally invented that!" As a reviewer (and optical designer regularly designing and performing equipment tests) I feel insulted that they get so much credit for doing such a crappy job.

05-16-2018, 06:07 AM - 1 Like	#13
Rico Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,205	The DPR sample galleries show they know little about photography. The images they posted for the K-1MKII wouldn't make it past a critique in a basic Photography 101 class. This is true for all the sample image galleries they post regardless of brand.

05-16-2018, 07:45 AM - 1 Like	#14
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	Originally posted by Kunzite I believe there are some good people at DPR. Simon Joinson apologized, two years ago, for the WaterFAILS article. But others are ruining their efforts. In no group if people everyone is a baddie and certainly dpr also has good folks and what you mentioned is a good move. But that doesnt mean that everyone is a goodie either. It is not that difficult for any reader to analyze who was involved in which bad actions and how he reacted to people highlighting his failures. The is a loud message between the lines as well: It wasn't the kid with the finders in the pot of marmelade who now wrote "I messed up, I am going to wash my hands". The mother had to wade in and say "We messed up. Some now will have to wash his fingers" In medieval Japan the mother now would commit harakiri.

05-16-2018, 07:57 AM	#15
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,181	Originally posted by Rico The DPR sample galleries show they know little about photography. The images they posted for the K-1MKII wouldn't make it past a critique in a basic Photography 101 class. This is true for all the sample image galleries they post regardless of brand. Are you judging these as "art", or as "examples to show something"?