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02-25-2007, 12:55 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by gepe9956 Quote
In my ignorance and to enlighten me I should like to know, 'Whats the point in using both Lightroom ansd Picasa. I thought both could be used for raw image developing and filing.
Picasa is superior album manager: only one I know from those I've tried, that allows nondestructive cropping and arbitrary picture order, to name just a few things. But Picasa is just so-so for raw editing, it doesn't allow directly color temperature alteration and all settings are visual only, you can't set/save/load custom settings etc.

I haven't tried Lightroom so I don't know anything about that.

02-25-2007, 01:48 PM   #17
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Gepe, Picasa isn't a raw processor and is not as good an editor for processing as Adobe Photoshop 7 (that I have). I think CS2 is an adobe editor, isn't it? If so it is an excellent editor, if it processes raw. Picasa is very good for organizing photos. Now I use GIMP as my Raw processor along with Ufraw that they said has to be downloaded with GIMP. Gimp is a powerful editor that is free and really does a lot of good things. The problem I have with Gimp is that it loses the EXIF information when I copy the processed raw image back to Adobe Photoshop 7 for final processing and then on th Picasa for filing and organizing my jpeg or tiff (I prefer to save in Tiff) tiff is less compressed than jpeg and retains more info from the raw . However, I noticed that one can hit the exif button on the GIMP processing page and it shows the exif info. I can then hit print screen button on keyboard then open microsoft word, hit paste and print out the exif info (along with the image) in fast draft. That's a good workaround for me. I just can't figure out how to do it the other ways suggested to me by aabram , Will and Mike cash, although I'm sure they're right. In conclusion I'm very happy with the Picasa, to GIMP to Photoshop to Picasa setup. By the way I prefer to do my final processing in Photoshop because I'm so used to working with it and can do almost anything I want in Photoshop. Freddy
02-25-2007, 02:51 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by MPrince Quote
That's a GREAT idea, but doesn't it take forever? I mean, you fill up a 2 gb card, that's nearly 200 images. Or do you only do this for keepers?

It's just a text file (well, Comma Separated Values). You do not process images. It might take...hum...10 seconds.

Edit > Select all.
Tools > Save data list.

Done.

Then copy and paste that text file into a master file. It can just be a CSV, but an Excel or other spreadsheet file allows formatting and sticky column widths, etc.
02-25-2007, 03:05 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by fevbusch Quote
The problem I have with Gimp is that it loses the EXIF information when I copy the processed raw image back to Adobe Photoshop 7 for final processing
Once more - EXIF info cannot be conveyed if you copy images via clipboard. EXIF is written only when you save the file physically to disk. As long as you use copy images from one application to another you'll lose EXIF.

02-25-2007, 03:11 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by gepe9956 Quote
...to enlighten me I should like to know, 'Whats the point in using both Lightroom ansd Picasa.

I thought both could be used for raw image developing and filing.

Am I wrong?

I am looking for a very slick workflow and if possible get rid of CS2. Maybe Lightroom and Elements.

Any thoughts.

It's a good question.

Let me start with the simplest reasons. First, before I got my K100D in early December and started using the Lightroom beta, I was using Picasa to organize my photos (then all JPEGs), to do most of my simple processing, and to upload photos to Picasa Web Albums. When I started using the beta of Lightroom, knowing that it was a beta, I wanted to make sure that I was keeping the Lightroom files separate from some set of reliable permanent files. And I never imported all of my old JPEG files into Lightroom. So I used Lightroom for importing my Raw files, editing them, adding captions, keywords, etc. I also used Lightroom to do my winnowing - deleting the losers quickly, and distinguishing the good photos from the ones that weren't especially good but which I didn't want to throw away. The good photos got exported to full-size 100% JPEG and were then managed by Picasa; the so-so photos stayed as Raw files. I back up the Raw files shoot by shoot to CD, by the way.

Anyway, now, the simplest reason for me to continue using Picasa is that it makes it very easy for me to upload photos to Picasa Web Albums, which is one of the photo sharing services that I use. I have also decided that I like separating the Raw processing problem from the JPEG management problem, so I think I'll continue working this way. After all, Picasa is free. And it's a VERY good program, for what it does. Now, it doesn't handle Raw images well. As noted in this thread, it can't read the EXIF info for Pentax Raw files; and its editing tools aren't in the same league as Lightroom's.

One thing I do NOT see a need for now is Adobe Photoshop Elements. Lightroom's editing tools are outstanding and powerful. Lightroom can do 99.7% of everything I do with my photos. I do own Photoshop Elements 5, too, but I think I'll launch it less often than I did when I was managing my photos primarily in Picasa.

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02-25-2007, 03:14 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by aabram Quote
Picasa is superior album manager: only one I know from those I've tried, that allows nondestructive cropping and arbitrary picture order, to name just a few things. But Picasa is just so-so for raw editing, it doesn't allow directly color temperature alteration and all settings are visual only, you can't set/save/load custom settings etc.
All correct, but just one addition: non-destructive editing is increasingly the norm. Adobe Lightroom, Apple Aperture, and Lightcrafts' Lightzone are three other programs that use non-destructive editing like Picasa, and I feel sure that there are many others.

Will
02-25-2007, 03:29 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by SpecialK Quote
It's just a text file (well, Comma Separated Values). You do not process images. It might take...hum...10 seconds.

Edit > Select all.
Tools > Save data list.

Done.

Then copy and paste that text file into a master file. It can just be a CSV, but an Excel or other spreadsheet file allows formatting and sticky column widths, etc.
Yeah, I know what a csv file is. I thought maybe you had to extract the data from each image file individually.

But as you describe, piece of cake.

I do believe I'll be doing this from now on, thanks for the info.
02-25-2007, 03:41 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
All correct, but just one addition: non-destructive editing is increasingly the norm. Adobe Lightroom, Apple Aperture, and Lightcrafts' Lightzone are three other programs that use non-destructive editing like Picasa, and I feel sure that there are many others.
Good to know. But I probably will not be trying any of those out anytime soon, I'm quite happy with my semi-budget workflow:

1. Copy raw files to folder where I keep original copies.
2. Open in Picasa, sort bad from good, delete worthless ones.
3. Open file I want to work with, in PS or GIMP, using ACR or UFRaw respectively to tweak raw and main app to do the rest.
4. Save postprocessed images to another folder, ready for use.

Unless I get Lightroom for free I'll stick to my currently working setup. But it's always good to know about alternatives.

02-26-2007, 02:37 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr. The Guy Quote
.............................Linux program.......................................................Another 16-bit Linux program...............................massive Linux advantage.................................Linux, Sun, FreeBSD and HP-UX)
The only thing more annoying than Mac zealots are Linux zealots.
02-27-2007, 06:29 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by aabram Quote
Picasa is superior album manager: only one I know from those I've tried, that allows nondestructive cropping and arbitrary picture order, to name just a few things. But Picasa is just so-so for raw editing, it doesn't allow directly color temperature alteration and all settings are visual only, you can't set/save/load custom settings etc.

I haven't tried Lightroom so I don't know anything about that.
How can you make that statement if you've not used lightroom !!!
FYI ... Lightroom has non-destructive editing and arbitrary picture order.
02-27-2007, 06:30 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Cash Quote
The only thing more annoying than Mac zealots are Linux zealots.
Hey I'd not say he was being a zealot ... however he did make the assumption that because gimp was being used that theOS was Linux ... however since Picasa was also mentioned I guess that the OP is actually using Windows.
02-27-2007, 12:52 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarneyCG Quote
How can you make that statement if you've not used lightroom !!!
FYI ... Lightroom has non-destructive editing and arbitrary picture order.
Umm... I specifically stated: "only one I know from those I've tried".
So yeah, I can make statements about things I have tried. Is there a problem with that?
02-28-2007, 08:52 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by aabram Quote
Umm... I specifically stated: "only one I know from those I've tried".
So yeah, I can make statements about things I have tried. Is there a problem with that?
Since the question you were answering was :

QuoteQuote:
In my ignorance and to enlighten me I should like to know, 'Whats the point in using both Lightroom ansd Picasa.
Saying Picasa has a superior album manager doesn't really add any value to the conversation.
Obviously if you take your statment as a stand alone comment then there is no problem with it at all and I would definately agree with you (as long as I don't count lightroom - I really like it, but Picasa does have some plusses - It's cheaper and it is faster)
03-01-2007, 09:33 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by aabram Quote
Umm... I specifically stated: "only one I know from those I've tried".
So yeah, I can make statements about things I have tried. Is there a problem with that?
Nope :-) Geez, I still use Photo Laboratory (it only makes me reboot a couple times per session, between hangups) and Firehand's Ember, which though it may be destructive, I really like and have used for years.

I just can't make the jump to anything else. I actually can do all I need at the moment in PL.
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