Remodeling the body

lotech · 07-27-2018, 12:21 AM

I believe Pentax DSLR is still the smallest in it's class, even the K1 is quite bulky it is still smaller than other fullframe DSLR, but I want the K1 even smaller ! I don't have the camera yet but I will definitely get the battery grip as well when I got one. I wonder why Pentax insisted to make the battery grip an add on, instead of to make the whole thing in one body like the EOS flagships and this can save some space. As far as I know Olympus made the smallest fullframe SLR body, much smaller than the Pentax, I don't know how they manage to squeeze everything into it, but electronics components are getting smaller everyday, so it wouldn't be too hard to make a smaller body even it is not mirrorless. If you are a working pro you will want longer battery life and vertical grip, I am not but I love the grip very much I glued it to the body ! and I hope to see some changes in future body design.

Adam · 07-27-2018, 12:44 AM

Dunno about the attached grip (that would probably kill a lot of interest in the body), but I agree that miniaturization should be happening. As long as the ergonomics remain good, bodies should be as small and light as possible.

**mikesbike** · 07-27-2018, 01:15 AM

It would kill a lot of interest, because it would add to the bulk with no option.

Upon examination of the Nikon and Canon models that feature a built-on grip, you will see that these are speciality cameras. The design is not there to save space because it doesn't. These models are made for ultra-fast burst shooting of fast-action professional assignments, and are capable of on-going incredible shooting speeds of 12 or 14 fps or so, as well as 4K HD video clip use at some 60 fps. You will notice that both of these models, in order to accomplish this specialty task, have reduced resolution to 20mp, in order to increase writing time and buffering. Resolution is of secondary concern. The built-on battery grip is there as a necessity to power this kind of operation, that is why it is built-on, not to save space. Both Nikon and Canon only have one model of this kind, as it fills only a small niche interest.

All of their higher-resolution FF DSLR models feature removable battery grips.

alpheios · 07-27-2018, 02:00 AM - **1 Like**

One of the many reasons that I chose the K-1 over a K-3 II or KP is that I have big hands and my pinkie finally has a place to rest on the grip without the need for the extra battery grip which I have never been a big fan of. For me personally the K-1 has the perfect size.
Having an extra battery grip leaves you with the option if you really do need it. Having it fixed to the body would kill interest in the camera as stated before by Adam and mikesbike.

jddwoods · 07-27-2018, 04:08 AM

Regarding the grip, my take is keep things just the way they are now. I have a K-3 and the grip. Using the grip attached with a lens like the DA 21 and 40 Limiteds is ridiculous, but with lenses like the DA* 200 and 300 the grip helps a lot. Also the grip is very easy to take on/off. The best option will always be the removable grip.

photoptimist · 07-27-2018, 04:19 AM

I'm also in the no-grip camp. In fact, that's one of the reasons I picked Pentax over Nikon and Canon. Pentax offered a high-spec camera without the bloat of a built-in grip like the high-end Nikons and Canons have.

Some people hate grips, some people love them, and some people probably swap between grip and no-grip depending on the situation.

An optional grip serves the most customers with the greatest flexibility.

**TER-OR** · 07-27-2018, 05:46 AM

I'm in the no-grip camp too. If I did a lot of hand-held portrait work, I might re-think. A sturdy detachable grip seems like the best solution.
I like the compact bodies, but they do still need to be large enough to securely hold.

MJKoski · 07-27-2018, 06:57 AM

I want 1Dx size. Large battery lasts longer in cold and there is no loss of rigidity with additional bubblegum battery grip. Hanging K-1 from neck or some weird strap is bonkers already so what problems would few hundred grams bring? These cameras go to bag when moving from A to B anyways.

reh321 · 07-27-2018, 07:06 AM

I would prefer a camera the size of my Super Program, which was smaller than a KP and was powered by two tiny button batteries. I had no trouble handling Super Program so I don't see any reason handling small digital camera should be an issue.

lotech · 07-27-2018, 07:09 AM

Build in grip not necessary add bulk to the camera, it is just a vertical grip that makes shooting a lot more comfortable under different situation, of course Pentax must make the grip small enough. The grip can be simply a tiny add on to the body without electronics, but the on camera battery must last long enough. The main reason I add the grip is to add some water protection to the camera, coz my last K3 ruined in the rain that water entered from the battery door (Pentax replaced the camera FOC), also you don't want to change battery in the middle of the rain.

Let's go back in history take a look at the Canon T90 :

Canon T90 - Wikipedia

It was the most innovative film camera at the time, it got a not so comfortable vertical grip built in, with an add on release bottom option, it takes 4AA cell and able to shot at 4.5fps that's uncommon at the time. In today's technology we could fill up the body with electronics and LIon battery without the need of an add on grip. We may not need super high speed stills and 4K video, but we will want long battery life and ergonomic design, the reason that design does not exist in Pentax is marketing reason !

lotech · 08-04-2018, 01:57 AM

I just check out the old news and I forgot Pentax showcased the first FF DSLR long time ago, it was the MZ-D, I find it very ugly in the first look, but now I feel it actually quite innovative and stylish , and it got a built in grip as well, that's how I wanted the new Pentax to be like !

pentax: Pentax MZ-D

totsmuyco · 08-04-2018, 02:58 AM

I'm hoping for a smaller camera body too. That's the only thing I envy about MILC. I hope they can make them smaller in the future. But I like the idea of having a grip for an option.

**i_trax** · 08-04-2018, 03:57 AM

I have grips for K-5II , K-3 and KP, not getting one for K-1, I like as it is.

wstruth · 08-04-2018, 04:55 AM

I would like to see a smaller full frame unit as well. I love the IQ on the K-1 but it is so far beyond the KP in weight that that my KP does most of my imaging unless there is something specific I want to shoot. I have a grip for the KP but the only time I uses it is with the D FA 150-450.

lotech · 08-07-2018, 05:11 AM

That make me re-think do I need a FF or APSC ? in terms of IQ and handling I am quite happy with my K3, and there is not too much to 'WoW' about to jump from APSC to FF except for the sensor shift super hi-res thing that requires tripod. The reason I want a FF is that I originated from the 'film era', so naturally I will want a FF DSLR, also can make good use of the old lenses. Pentax APSC DSLR is the smallest but not the lightest, actually the K3 is noticeable heavier than any other APSC DSLR of the same class, together with the grip frankly it is a burden to me to carry, but I still want longer battery life and comfortable grip for vertical shoot, that two things not necessarily translate into a big and heavy body, and we can drop the regular AA cell support to make the grip smaller, BTW I also like the KP except the omission of IR remote and the use of slider dioptic adjustment instead of the tuning knob, that made the KP looked cheap.

Originally posted by wstruth

I would like to see a smaller full frame unit as well. I love the IQ on the K-1 but it is so far beyond the KP in weight that that my KP does most of my imaging unless there is something specific I want to shoot. I have a grip for the KP but the only time I uses it is with the D FA 150-450.

07-27-2018, 12:21 AM	#1
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312	Remodeling the body I believe Pentax DSLR is still the smallest in it's class, even the K1 is quite bulky it is still smaller than other fullframe DSLR, but I want the K1 even smaller ! I don't have the camera yet but I will definitely get the battery grip as well when I got one. I wonder why Pentax insisted to make the battery grip an add on, instead of to make the whole thing in one body like the EOS flagships and this can save some space. As far as I know Olympus made the smallest fullframe SLR body, much smaller than the Pentax, I don't know how they manage to squeeze everything into it, but electronics components are getting smaller everyday, so it wouldn't be too hard to make a smaller body even it is not mirrorless. If you are a working pro you will want longer battery life and vertical grip, I am not but I love the grip very much I glued it to the body ! and I hope to see some changes in future body design.

07-27-2018, 12:44 AM	#2
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	Dunno about the attached grip (that would probably kill a lot of interest in the body), but I agree that miniaturization should be happening. As long as the ergonomics remain good, bodies should be as small and light as possible. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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07-27-2018, 01:15 AM	#3
mikesbike Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 4,549	It would kill a lot of interest, because it would add to the bulk with no option. Upon examination of the Nikon and Canon models that feature a built-on grip, you will see that these are speciality cameras. The design is not there to save space because it doesn't. These models are made for ultra-fast burst shooting of fast-action professional assignments, and are capable of on-going incredible shooting speeds of 12 or 14 fps or so, as well as 4K HD video clip use at some 60 fps. You will notice that both of these models, in order to accomplish this specialty task, have reduced resolution to 20mp, in order to increase writing time and buffering. Resolution is of secondary concern. The built-on battery grip is there as a necessity to power this kind of operation, that is why it is built-on, not to save space. Both Nikon and Canon only have one model of this kind, as it fills only a small niche interest. All of their higher-resolution FF DSLR models feature removable battery grips.

07-27-2018, 02:00 AM - 1 Like	#4
alpheios Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Bremen Posts: 410	One of the many reasons that I chose the K-1 over a K-3 II or KP is that I have big hands and my pinkie finally has a place to rest on the grip without the need for the extra battery grip which I have never been a big fan of. For me personally the K-1 has the perfect size. Having an extra battery grip leaves you with the option if you really do need it. Having it fixed to the body would kill interest in the camera as stated before by Adam and mikesbike.

07-27-2018, 04:08 AM	#5
jddwoods Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Newark, Delaware Posts: 1,035	Regarding the grip, my take is keep things just the way they are now. I have a K-3 and the grip. Using the grip attached with a lens like the DA 21 and 40 Limiteds is ridiculous, but with lenses like the DA* 200 and 300 the grip helps a lot. Also the grip is very easy to take on/off. The best option will always be the removable grip.

07-27-2018, 04:19 AM	#6
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,125	I'm also in the no-grip camp. In fact, that's one of the reasons I picked Pentax over Nikon and Canon. Pentax offered a high-spec camera without the bloat of a built-in grip like the high-end Nikons and Canons have. Some people hate grips, some people love them, and some people probably swap between grip and no-grip depending on the situation. An optional grip serves the most customers with the greatest flexibility.

07-27-2018, 05:46 AM	#7
TER-OR Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Dundee, IL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,699	I'm in the no-grip camp too. If I did a lot of hand-held portrait work, I might re-think. A sturdy detachable grip seems like the best solution. I like the compact bodies, but they do still need to be large enough to securely hold.

07-27-2018, 06:57 AM	#8
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784	I want 1Dx size. Large battery lasts longer in cold and there is no loss of rigidity with additional bubblegum battery grip. Hanging K-1 from neck or some weird strap is bonkers already so what problems would few hundred grams bring? These cameras go to bag when moving from A to B anyways.

07-27-2018, 07:06 AM	#9
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	I would prefer a camera the size of my Super Program, which was smaller than a KP and was powered by two tiny button batteries. I had no trouble handling Super Program so I don't see any reason handling small digital camera should be an issue.

07-27-2018, 07:09 AM	#10
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312 Original Poster	Build in grip not necessary add bulk to the camera, it is just a vertical grip that makes shooting a lot more comfortable under different situation, of course Pentax must make the grip small enough. The grip can be simply a tiny add on to the body without electronics, but the on camera battery must last long enough. The main reason I add the grip is to add some water protection to the camera, coz my last K3 ruined in the rain that water entered from the battery door (Pentax replaced the camera FOC), also you don't want to change battery in the middle of the rain. Let's go back in history take a look at the Canon T90 : Canon T90 - Wikipedia It was the most innovative film camera at the time, it got a not so comfortable vertical grip built in, with an add on release bottom option, it takes 4AA cell and able to shot at 4.5fps that's uncommon at the time. In today's technology we could fill up the body with electronics and LIon battery without the need of an add on grip. We may not need super high speed stills and 4K video, but we will want long battery life and ergonomic design, the reason that design does not exist in Pentax is marketing reason !

08-04-2018, 01:57 AM	#11
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312 Original Poster	I just check out the old news and I forgot Pentax showcased the first FF DSLR long time ago, it was the MZ-D, I find it very ugly in the first look, but now I feel it actually quite innovative and stylish , and it got a built in grip as well, that's how I wanted the new Pentax to be like ! pentax: Pentax MZ-D

08-04-2018, 02:58 AM	#12
totsmuyco Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Iloilo City Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,276	I'm hoping for a smaller camera body too. That's the only thing I envy about MILC. I hope they can make them smaller in the future. But I like the idea of having a grip for an option.

08-04-2018, 03:57 AM	#13
i_trax Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Perth Western Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,621	I have grips for K-5II , K-3 and KP, not getting one for K-1, I like as it is.

08-04-2018, 04:55 AM	#14
wstruth Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: at my kitchen table Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,294	I would like to see a smaller full frame unit as well. I love the IQ on the K-1 but it is so far beyond the KP in weight that that my KP does most of my imaging unless there is something specific I want to shoot. I have a grip for the KP but the only time I uses it is with the D FA 150-450.

08-07-2018, 05:11 AM	#15
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312 Original Poster	That make me re-think do I need a FF or APSC ? in terms of IQ and handling I am quite happy with my K3, and there is not too much to 'WoW' about to jump from APSC to FF except for the sensor shift super hi-res thing that requires tripod. The reason I want a FF is that I originated from the 'film era', so naturally I will want a FF DSLR, also can make good use of the old lenses. Pentax APSC DSLR is the smallest but not the lightest, actually the K3 is noticeable heavier than any other APSC DSLR of the same class, together with the grip frankly it is a burden to me to carry, but I still want longer battery life and comfortable grip for vertical shoot, that two things not necessarily translate into a big and heavy body, and we can drop the regular AA cell support to make the grip smaller, BTW I also like the KP except the omission of IR remote and the use of slider dioptic adjustment instead of the tuning knob, that made the KP looked cheap. Originally posted by wstruth I would like to see a smaller full frame unit as well. I love the IQ on the K-1 but it is so far beyond the KP in weight that that my KP does most of my imaging unless there is something specific I want to shoot. I have a grip for the KP but the only time I uses it is with the D FA 150-450.