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05-04-2010, 05:41 PM   #46
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I have used this lens...and to be honest it's good, copared to my noctilux 50mm f/1.0 but I really don't like it's rendering at max aperture, it doesn't have that distinctive coma that the "classic" f/1.0 noctilux has.. and in the end these fast lenses are really a one trick pony..there are plenty of 50mm lenses that can outperform the noctilux in daylight. And the difference between f/1.0 and f/0.95 is trivial at best.

05-04-2010, 05:52 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
this is for all of you zeiss and leicaphiles oh and you few canon owners.

Leica offers World's fastest Aspherical lens: Digital Photography Review

the 0.95 is back and more expensive than ever. can we say bragging rights?
That is one absurd price...that's more than any Pentax lens out there!

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05-04-2010, 06:27 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I thought you were going to show as a Leica Noctilux 50mm f0.95 lens converted to K-mount.
Sorry
I don't even have a camera yet

Back in the days I was informed that one got more of a camera with Pentax, compared for instance against crippled Nikon models. But back then it was the K100 or K10. However I couldn't afford one. Then came the K20 and K200 and I wanted the K20, but same issue. And now K7 and K-x and while I can afford one I haven't bought one.

The K-x seem to offer a lot for the money but I don't know how much the lack of visual indication of AF points will be, you people say metering isn't spot on all the time (maybe, if I remember correctly) and I assume it may suffer some more shutter lag as the Panasonics vs 550D/7D when it comes to movies. Also since I doubt we'll see a K7 update _NOW_ I started to look at the alternatives (don't wanna buy the K7 with current sensor and also without faster sensor readouts / higher fps in movies to reduce shutter lag effect.)

The DMC-GH1 has a nice movie mode, a lens very suitable for filming but slow in general and it makes it expensive. The GF1 only does 30 fps 720p while the 7D and 550D does 60 fps so well, I assume it have higher shutter lag.

I've looked at Canon lenses and it all honesty it seem like I would have more to pick from there then if I went Pentax and I'm somewhat scared about the future of Pentax, and well, since I'm not bought into the system yet ..

The problem with the 550D is lack of image stabilization (not that much of a deal), slow continous autofocus during filming (worse than Panasonic) and that I would probably by primes which probably isn't that great for filming to begin with.

I haven't cared for Nikon since their video implementations are a generation behind, the D9 update however seem to catch up and also get 39 autofocus points and such so it may be nice.

I guess a perfect solution would be to wait for the Panasonic DMC-GH2 since it will do video the best (fast autofocus), have a suitable kit-lens (12-75mm F2.5-3.3 OIS) and global electronic shutter so eventually it can read the whole sensor in one go = no shutter lag at all. Issue with micro four thirds is amount of lenses, or rather the small apertures, and also the price of them.

So well, kinda stuck. Wait for K7 update, D90 update, DMC-GH2 or get the 550D now?

I would had wanted a camera ASAP because spring is here and nature look it's best now and the summer evenings and mornings is here within a month. So, is it worth missing out this summer while waiting for the DMC-GH2?

I know you people claim that you don't care about movies, but it adds one other artistic aspect and much possibility to tell a story.

And DSLRs make amazing videos:
(5D mkII but difference vs 7D or 550D won't be that much.)

I don't know how much of a deal-breaker slow autofocus is during filming, but I assume only the contrast focus of the Panasonics are fast enough. And 12-75 x2 = 24-150 mm should be enough to cover most situations I assume, and atleast 2.5-3.3 is quite fast.)

----

No matter what the noctilux 0.95 or whatever it's called will never sit on my camera ..

But I think the pictures look amazing and I think it deserves praise for that it is.

I read here about the Pentax FA 50/1.4:
Pentax SMC FA 50mm F1.4 Lens Review: 4. Test results: Digital Photography Review
And it seems like it indeed gets better bokeh when stepped down.

Sigmas 50/1.4 fare better though:
Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Lens Review: 5. Test results (Full Frame): Digital Photography Review
(Though it's not without issues of it's own ..)

Reading on about Canon lenses over at photozone I found out that most L-glass seem to have circular apertures, and softer bokeh. I never got whatever that was true for the 35/1.4L (Canon EF 35mm f/1.4 USM L - Review / Test Report - Sample Images & Verdict) but it's for the rest of the ones I watched.

Both of the 100/2.8 macros seems good, but the L-version better:
Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM L IS macro (APS-C) - Review / Lab Test Report - Analysis
Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM macro - (APS-C) Review / Test Report - Analysis

The difference between 85/1.2LII and 85/1.8 is bigger:
Canon EF 85mm f/1.2 USM L II - APS-C Lab Test / Review - Analysis
Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM Retest @ 15mp / Review - Analysis

So I guess the 2.8 macro in the non-L-version may be the better alternative.

The 50mms lacked bokeh information:
50mm/1.8ii not so good: Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II - Review / Test Report - Sample Images & Verdict
The 50mm/1.4 got 8 aperture blades: Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM - Review / Test Report - Sample Images & Verdict
The 50mm/1.2L got circular aperture so probably best: Canon EF 50mm f/1.2 USM L - Review / Test Report

But the L-glass is ****ing expensive, the nikkor af-s above looked pretty nice though.

Tamron 6/2: Tamron AF 60mm f/2 Di II LD [IF] SP macro (Canon) - Review / Test Report - Analysis

I guess a zoom lens is convenient and better for filming but I'd rather pay for better glass rather than convenience I guess, depends on how "bad" the zoom is (I heard Olympus supposedly make good ones, even f2.0 but the cost match the performance so to speak =P, and they haven't released any new DSLR for a while.)

I guess I would had wanted something like the tokina 11-16/2.8, canon 100/2.8 macro, eventually the 65/2.8 1-5x macro and well, then the question is whatever one want 35/2, 50/1.4, 85/1.8 or any L-glass.

Or equivalents of any other camera. Like if it was the DMC-GH2 maybe 12-75 and one macro lens and some fast prime and/or even wider angle zoom.

---

Edit: Found a 50/1.2L review (learned that 50/2.5 macro was among the sharpest so may be an alternative), not that great:

85/1.2LII is way better:

But now I found some other reviews.
Canon 85mm f/1.8
Canon 85mm f/1.2
And here is the cheap 85/1.8, much better than that 50mm and much cheaper than the L-glass above, and just fine to, or what do you think?



Sadly he has no bokeh shots with the 100/2.8 macro, but with the 60/2.8 one:




Look rather good.

Now show me some great bokeh pentax lenses, or lenses which can be fitted on a Pentax, please

Last edited by aliquis; 05-04-2010 at 07:37 PM.
05-04-2010, 07:01 PM   #49
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Well, Aliquis, as for not having a camera at all, if you're indecisive, you could possibly go for a used K20d for now: they aren't terribly expensive now, and still a pretty satisfying camera. Then see what the next models are. If it's a fast 50 you like, (I surely do, on crop, anyway,) the FA 50 is lovely, and there are plenty of other choices. It's like a candy store in Pentax mount for that, really. My very favorite FOV, and I'm very happy with the combo.

There'll be new models sometime soonish, but you could wait forever on teasers. You could get started on Pentax without committing a lot, and buy into video when you feel the tech is enough.

05-04-2010, 07:48 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
Well, Aliquis, as for not having a camera at all, if you're indecisive, you could possibly go for a used K20d for now: they aren't terribly expensive now, and still a pretty satisfying camera. Then see what the next models are. If it's a fast 50 you like, (I surely do, on crop, anyway,) the FA 50 is lovely, and there are plenty of other choices. It's like a candy store in Pentax mount for that, really. My very favorite FOV, and I'm very happy with the combo.

There'll be new models sometime soonish, but you could wait forever on teasers. You could get started on Pentax without committing a lot, and buy into video when you feel the tech is enough.
Shouldn't it be a candy store for any camera brand? Or can Pentax use more old glass for some reason?

Yeah, sure, a used camera of whatever brand and say something like a 100/2.8 macro used would work during the summer and then I could sell it and get something like the DMC-GH2 when released without losing much.

I will go off-topic for a while, found some discussing regarding best Nikon lenses for this, and saw suggestions for the Nikkor 85/1.4 D, which was why I found the other review of the Canon 85s above with new images: Nikon 85mm f/1.4 D AF
And it sure look nice:







So on, from Flickr: Discussing Bokeh with a Nikkor 85mm f/1.4(D) in Bokeh: Smooth & Silky
And of course it happened to have 9 aperture blades in a circular shape ..

Samyang 85/1.4 look quite nice to *ahem*?


Don't know there the Nikon guy believing his 50/1.8 had a nice one got that from though:

Out of focus? Yes. Smooth? No. But maybe I just don't understand the subject enough.
Maybe it's an hard object.


Anyway, Tamron 90/2.8 macro is available with Pentax mount and people seemed to kinda like that one:
Tamron AF 90mm f/2.8 Di SP macro (Pentax) - Review / Lab Test Report - Analysis

But then I saw a review of the Samyang where they happened to have a picture of the Pentax FA* 85 and that one looked like it had potential. I couldn't find it on pentaxlenses though, is it an old lens not in production longer? Found a page which said it had a circular aperture shape of 9 blades if I remember correctly. Some page questioned whatever that one or the FA 77 limited was preferred and the product page for that one list 9 aperture blades to so maybe that one from Pentax look nice to. So there's three alternatives at least.

http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/pentax85/index.html
http://www.allgeektome.com/pentax/85%27s/

FA* 85/1.4 got better corner sharpness than 85/1.2LII@1.4. L better center sharpness.
FA* sharper at F4 to.
FA* better colors: http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/pentax85/pentax85mm_e.html
FA* much more CA than L.
At F2.8 CA is way less, still slightly more on the FA*, colors and sharpness very close.
At F8 I'd give it to the L: http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/pentax85/pentax85mm_g.html

Still quite interesting to see the FA* is so much sharper and have better colors than even the Canon L-glass. Too bad on the CA.

Crap, while neither of these (85/1.8 and 85/1.2LII) are "bad" the Nikon 85/1.4 D simply seem better imho:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/bokeh_/discuss/72157594175065903/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/bokeh_/discuss/72157594389814640/
Stupid Nikon messing up my decisions! Nikon thread:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/bokeh_/discuss/72157594261826092/
Lots of pretty 100/2.8 macro shots, looking nice, maybe 85/1.8 is just stupid? They are so similar anyway.
http://www.flickr.com/groups/bokeh_/discuss/72157594215615243/
Tamron 90/2.8 macro, seems like the photographer matters to ;/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/bokeh_/discuss/72157594175852468/
Stupid Leica!
http://www.flickr.com/groups/bokeh_/discuss/72157594255241187/
35/1.2L looking good, really good, so many beautiful photos in all these threads:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/bokeh_/discuss/72157594223227502/
Pentax:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/pentaxart/discuss/72157623371482939/

Crap, maybe I don't understand shit because this is the Nikon 18-55 kit lens ;D

Wtf? , http://www.flickr.com/groups/dof/discuss/72157605200936589/page2/

Whatever 50mm blah.
http://photo.net/equipment/canon/ef50/

Last edited by aliquis; 05-04-2010 at 08:48 PM.
05-05-2010, 01:26 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
That is one absurd price...that's more than any Pentax lens out there!
The price on the 0.95 makes the f1.0 look like a Fire Sale bargain.
05-05-2010, 02:50 PM   #52
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Can you say the point of diminishing return? Granted, f0.95 is totally cool. But it's just a little over a 1/2 stop from a more common f1.2 if I recall correctly.
05-05-2010, 03:38 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by aliquis Quote
...photos with this lens look ****ing amazing:
I agree.
Prices for Leica lenses may be out of this world, but the lens performance is too! The high end Leica glass is exceptional in the true sense of the word.

Ever seen a LEICA SUMMILUX-R 50mm at f/1.4? The sharpness knocked my socks off.

QuoteOriginally posted by aliquis Quote
Is this common / a fact that it look "worse" at wider apertures? Or does it just happened to do here?
I believe that's a common phenomenon. The bokeh of the FA50/1.4, for example, looks great at f/2.8 but below that it becomes busy.

Regarding your quest for a photo system: I think it will be worth waiting to see what Pentax's next DSLR will be. However, this might put you on hold for quite a while as you will probably want to wait till the price has come down a bit.

I think keeping an eye on the lens prices is a good idea. Canon L glass, for example, has a great reputation but you also have to pay for it.

I wouldn't worry about Pentax's future. I don't see them disappearing.

05-05-2010, 05:14 PM   #54
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aliquis,

Go to the camera store, put a few cameras in your hand. Buy whichever one is most comfortable to you. Then you can choose among lenses within that brand. Otherwise you will end up waiting forever for a camera with "perfect" specifications.

The point is to take photos, Right?
05-05-2010, 07:07 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve Beswick Quote
Go to the camera store, put a few cameras in your hand. Buy whichever one is most comfortable to you.
I agree that its a good idea to check out the handling for oneself.
But doing some other research is helpful too.

Sadly, your strategy would lead to many potential Pentax customers to fall prey to other brands since there don't seem to be too many shops around where you can try an actual Pentax camera.
08-04-2010, 09:44 AM   #56
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I've to disagree with some of the assessments here regarding the Pentax 50/1.2.

In fact, there are at least two sources showing that among the 50-58 1.2, Pentax is the sharpest by a wide margin. I dig up my history and found one right here:

Converting Rokkor 58mm 1.2 to EOS - FM Forums

As for the bokeh, I've tried the Minolta 58/1.2 (legendary in bokeh), Canon FL 55/1.2, FD 55/1.2 Asphe, K 50/1.2, A 50/1.2. I've seen Yashica 55/1.2, Contax 55/1.2, Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2, Canon L 50/1.0, etc. To be honest, the Pentax is on the better group in bokeh department. You can still get the faint "donut ring", nissen bokeh, but it's not as pronounced as, say, the Contax 55/1.2.

What I don't like about the Pentax is CA and LoCA. I don't know if it has any aspherical element or not, but I can definintely see less problem with the FD 55/1.2 Asph.

And comparing the 85 to a 50 is not exactly fair. Not only the DOF of the 85 is thinner, the perspective is also compressed that giving people an impression of better bokeh. If smooth bokeh is what one after, the longer focal length is better. Just look at the bokeh from the fast 200mm lens (hand-holdable range) to the fast 300mm (much less), I doubt anyone would complain about the bokeh. And none would surpass the 135mm STF from Sony/Minolta, even the 35mm Cron Pre-asph v.4.

Last edited by aegisphan; 08-04-2010 at 09:49 AM.
08-04-2010, 09:47 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by jake.astig Quote
For doctors, investment bankers, hedge fund managers, etc
I thought it was interesting that this thread still lives, and interesting whether two years after this post, in today's economy, whether the above still holds true!
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