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09-16-2008, 05:49 PM   #1
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k100d takes the K100D to a wedding

as i mentioned in this post https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-pentax-photography/37092-wedding-...raph-walk.html i attended a wedding as a guest last weekend. i won't attach any direct people photos.

there were three pros, one with double 1D? bodies and another with a D300 and something else and a videographer. what really stood out were the size of the flash equipment and the diffusers very impressive.

i brought all of my lenses, but mainly used the FA31 and FA77 indoors with the DA 55-300 getting some usage outdoors. what helped a lot was having the FA31 and FA77. using the fast lenses at ISO 400 and 800 helped me to get a steady shot in the lower light conditions. i think if i was the pro, i could get away with using only those two focal lengths. (on dpreview, somebody did a wedding w/ FA31 only and no-flash, extremely impressive).

picture of the chapel here. the guests entered while i sat on one of the pews from the left. panning the guests entering was difficult and i used the built-in flash. the bride entered from the back from outside so it was definitely a difficult exposure. however, the camera managed well with the built-in flash.



however not being the pro photographer, i could take some photos that were probably a different perspective.



and another one during reception


some lessons learned
-if everyone else has a flash and i don't i'm probably missing something. i really need to learn to use a flash
-the K100D peformance is very slow. shot-to-shot review times in RAW are just friggin poor
-external controls would have been very helpful to change exposure modes and focus modes. going through the menus is too slow when i need to make a fast change and sometimes i didn't change because it took too long.
-raw buffer is more important than frame rate. freakin 3 frames doesn't cut it. it's a once in a lifetime moment and i have no objections to machine gunning these scenes if i had the capability
-poor AF performance. i hate to say it. for landscape and non-pressure situations, it's fine, no problems. i was extremely disappointed when the lens started hunting in the chapel and when it picked up the wrong target at the most important moments GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

looks like a K20D could solve most of these problems, but i really want to spend some time with one to see how much the AF has improved. i'm not gonna sell my gear, i love the FA Limiteds too much. but am i thinking of getting another body from another brand? yes i won't lie. after the ceremony, i went to a store and they had a D80 with the 18-55 VR kit lying around. wow did that thing focus fast and silently. of course 99.9% of my photography isn't like this but when it comes to that really important 0.1% knowing that better equipment would have done a better job gives me a bad aftertaste.

thanks for reading


Last edited by k100d; 09-16-2008 at 05:57 PM.
09-16-2008, 06:34 PM   #2
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This is why you should have shot in JPEG

The main reason those flashes are big...they need the power as they're usually diffusing the light through something and usually bouncing it too. if you're just isolating couples and individuals, just using enough fill from the on-board camera is enough.

If you'd like i have a big ass Metz old but usuable...no TTL you can borrow to experiment with? or just wait for the next TO meet just remind me to bring some light.

I do not lend out my Lumedyne and Elichrom, they never come back as they went out but the Metz is tough.
09-16-2008, 08:50 PM   #3
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Your findings were pretty much in line with mine. Fast lenses help a ton, but AF is a tad slow when the lighting was poor. In those situations, I often found that using MF is quicker, but you really have to rely on the viewfinder to ensure the focus is tack on. Having a split prism may help in that department.

But you got some really good shots there! Now I know what lenses I should have put in my bag - LOL!
09-16-2008, 09:23 PM   #4
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Pretty good pic's K100D

I prefer manual focus as well.

The buffer size doesn't really mater so much when you have a fairly good idea what they'll be doing ahead of time. You'll have a pretty good idea what the best sots will be, and that's when you'll want to snap the photo.

When your using a flash you can't shoot while it's charging up anyways, which often takes more time than the buffer to clear. So you'll be fine.

My main camera only holds 5 to 8 photographs in the buffer, and it's always been enough.
I use my K100D as a back-up, and it's never left me down either.
I just shoot around their limitations.

09-16-2008, 11:55 PM   #5
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From the words of most of the wedding photographers I know, they shoot in JPEG for the exact same speed reasons, during and after shooting, and besides, weddings aren't the type of thing you need raw for if you shoot with the right WB and so on. It's a once off, not true?

I had lots of fun with my K100D, I still miss it in a way, and I only ONCE had AF problems, during an offroad thing, low light and the usual culprits.

I think your images look great nevertheless, and perhaps your heart is just looking for a reason to upgrade
09-17-2008, 07:54 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by marlon Quote
From the words of most of the wedding photographers I know, they shoot in JPEG for the exact same speed reasons, during and after shooting, and besides, weddings aren't the type of thing you need raw for if you shoot with the right WB and so on. It's a once off, not true?

I had lots of fun with my K100D, I still miss it in a way, and I only ONCE had AF problems, during an offroad thing, low light and the usual culprits.

I think your images look great nevertheless, and perhaps your heart is just looking for a reason to upgrade

Wow, I totally disagree with you there, I think weddings are one of the most challenging environments possible that require RAW. With weddings, you need to capture each moment. If you get the exposure wrong, you want RAW files so that you can more easily save them.
09-17-2008, 08:12 AM   #7
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K100d,

I recently took some photos at a wedding with both my K100d, and a friends K10d, and I share most of your opinions. My replies in bold below:


QuoteOriginally posted by k100d Quote

...some lessons learned
-if everyone else has a flash and i don't i'm probably missing something. i really need to learn to use a flash
It looks like the church was reasonably bright, so with fast lenses you were probably OK. Pros know how to use flash well, even if it's only to add a touch of fill here and there.

-the K100D peformance is very slow. shot-to-shot review times in RAW are just friggin poor
I agree, it is slow to handle RAW files. It can get frustrating.

-external controls would have been very helpful to change exposure modes and focus modes. going through the menus is too slow when i need to make a fast change and sometimes i didn't change because it took too long.
I found the exact same thing. The K10d that I borrowed had these things, and it was sooo nice to have. Too much menu stuff with the K100d.

-raw buffer is more important than frame rate. freakin 3 frames doesn't cut it. it's a once in a lifetime moment and i have no objections to machine gunning these scenes if i had the capability
Agreed. 3 fps is fine, but having that buffer filled after just 3 shots is not.

-poor AF performance. i hate to say it. for landscape and non-pressure situations, it's fine, no problems. i was extremely disappointed when the lens started hunting in the chapel and when it picked up the wrong target at the most important moments GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
hmm... The church I did mine at was much dimmer than this, and I had no problems with AF performance

looks like a K20D could solve most of these problems, but i really want to spend some time with one to see how much the AF has improved. i'm not gonna sell my gear, i love the FA Limiteds too much. but am i thinking of getting another body from another brand? yes i won't lie. after the ceremony, i went to a store and they had a D80 with the 18-55 VR kit lying around. wow did that thing focus fast and silently. of course 99.9% of my photography isn't like this but when it comes to that really important 0.1% knowing that better equipment would have done a better job gives me a bad aftertaste.

All of the different brands have their strengths and weaknesses.
09-17-2008, 08:54 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by k100d:
some lessons learned
-if everyone else has a flash and i don't i'm probably missing something. i really need to learn to use a flash
I agree. There is too much emphasis on "fast glass" on these boards. Controlling the light with a flash is more difficult but also provides more consistent results if one knows how to do it.. I don't how to do it yet, but I do have a good flash and I went to a lighting seminar, and it was, ahem, enlightening.

QuoteQuote:
the K100D peformance is very slow. shot-to-shot review times in RAW are just friggin poor
Definitely agree. Cycling through menus is painfully slow and the K100D's general handling is frustrating. No more so than other basic DSLR's though.

QuoteQuote:
poor AF performance. i hate to say it. for landscape and non-pressure situations, it's fine, no problems. i was extremely disappointed when the lens started hunting in the chapel and when it picked up the wrong target at the most important moments GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
When you say "picked up the wrong target", it makes me wonder if you're using center focus? I never let the camera decide the focal point, it can't possibly know what I want to do.

QuoteQuote:
looks like a K20D could solve most of these problems, but i really want to spend some time with one to see how much the AF has improved. i'm not gonna sell my gear, i love the FA Limiteds too much. but am i thinking of getting another body from another brand? yes i won't lie. after the ceremony, i went to a store and they had a D80 with the 18-55 VR kit lying around. wow did that thing focus fast and silently. of course 99.9% of my photography isn't like this but when it comes to that really important 0.1% knowing that better equipment would have done a better job gives me a bad aftertaste.
The K20D is "better equipment" than a K100D. It will boost the performance of all your lenses and address your handling concerns. All without starting over. Canikon kit lenses are crap, and upgrades are pricey. And now you know you need a good flash. Do you really want two different systems? I bought a K20D body for the same cost as a Canon 450D with kit lens. All my lenses and my flash fit both my cameras. Any new lenses I buy will be great value and I won't have to pay for shake reduction over and over. I'm comfortable that I made a superior choice.

09-17-2008, 09:13 AM   #9
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White balance is not the only reason to shoot RAW. Here's a little write up I've saved for anyone wondering why to shoot RAW vs. JPG.

First off, your camera ONLY shoots RAW. When you select JPG, the camera takes the RAW data and pipes it into it's on-board JPG processor to generate the JPG "image" to save to the card.

When you shoot RAW, the RAW "data" goes directly to the card and is not an image.

To generate an image, you use a RAW processor (software on your PC) which turns the data into a viewable image, much like the camera's JPG processor. The difference is that YOU have complete control over the image generation process. You can change the white balance, adjust the contrast/brightness/black point/etc....

So you can leave these decisions up to the camera's little processor (and hope it makes the right decisions since they are irreversible), or save the decisions for later where YOU have complete control over it.

Think of film, do you want to just drop the roll off at the pharmacy and get a bunch of 4x6 prints back (and NO negatives)? Or do you want the negatives?


QuoteOriginally posted by marlon Quote
From the words of most of the wedding photographers I know, they shoot in JPEG for the exact same speed reasons, during and after shooting, and besides, weddings aren't the type of thing you need raw for if you shoot with the right WB and so on. It's a once off, not true?
09-17-2008, 09:25 AM   #10
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Original Poster
thanks for the replies

Clicker
thanks for the offer on lighting
as for JPEG, not acceptable really for me. i've been to the restaurant where the reception is a few times and for some reason, that place messes up the K100D meter as well as has strange Lighting. i usually have to add +1EV and tweak the WB. thing is i usually forget to set these things prior and so shooting RAW gives me more flexibility. perhaps i could have switched to JPEG for the machine gunning, but 2 more frames in JPEG won't make that big of a difference unless they are perfect

Alvin
glad i'm not alone in my sentiments. MF would be a good idea, i didn't think of it at the time as i was in a rush. if i ever had to do this again, i should plan it out more and learn all of the limitations of the equipment

little laker
because i was only a guy with a camera in the audience, i didn't have much flexibility or knowledge of the situation. but that would have helped a lot. i didn't think about the flash recharge times, tha'ts something else that should be considered . is your sigma your main camera?

marlon
thanks for looking. personally, i find shooting JPEG risky unless i really nail everything right. i really wanted to get a K20D before but i wanted to wait till photokina for new announcements / price drops

jake14mw
the fast lenses did help a lot. during the vows and ring exchange i was shooting with the FA77 at 1.8 and that helped a lot. you're right about otherbrands don't have it that great either. i think pentax gives me the best combination of everything i want.
09-17-2008, 10:58 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by k100d Quote
thanks for the replies
Never a problem


QuoteQuote:
little laker
because i was only a guy with a camera in the audience, i didn't have much flexibility or knowledge of the situation. but that would have helped a lot. i didn't think about the flash recharge times, tha'ts something else that should be considered . is your sigma your main camera?
You'll find that the photographer, and Commissioner (priest, minister, etc) always get together for a moment, and discuss things together.

This is where we are often given conditions like when we can and can not use flash.

Plus you'll seen the photographers trying to chat with the couple ahead of time. Although this isn't always possible

At least I don't mind anyone else listening in. You'd get a good idea what to expect if you did.

And yes, my Sigma is my main camera now.
The K100D makes a perfect backup, however I just prefer the colours of the Sigma. It's a personal choice.
It's almost ironic. I use mostly Sigma lenses on the Pentax, and mostly Pentax lenses on the Sigma
09-17-2008, 11:21 PM   #12
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A quick poll of the 5 wedding photographers I know... they all shoot JPG. If you know your gear and know your onboard settings AND get the white balance and exposure right then JPG's are just fine. Who wants to manually edit 800 photos at the end of the day with custom settings?
09-18-2008, 07:47 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by kunik Quote
A quick poll of the 5 wedding photographers I know... they all shoot JPG. If you know your gear and know your onboard settings AND get the white balance and exposure right then JPG's are just fine.
That depends upon your camera. The Pentax JPG's are pretty good right out of the camera, but if you tried that using my Sigma SD14 you'd be dissapointed.
It's designed with the RAW shooter in mind, where Pentax designed their system so anyone can use them.

In all reality I find that very few photographs aren't improved with a little tweek here and there. It's not usually much, but a little more or less contrast often makes a BIG difference.

QuoteQuote:
Who wants to manually edit 800 photos at the end of the day with custom settings
That's where Batch processing is nice
While shooting weddings I am often able to batch edit 50 or so pic's at once, so it really isn't all that bad.
09-18-2008, 12:10 PM   #14
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with that crystal clear air in the South Okanagan you should be able to shoot your weddings with a disposable kodak and get good results ... (2 of those 5 photographers I was just talking about live in the Penticton/kelowna area) - I lived there my whole life until a few months ago...
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