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08-17-2018, 02:07 PM - 1 Like   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by neokind Quote
So, are you suggesting that one should not express frustrations or wants to avoid triggering fellow members?
I know you didn't ask me the question, but I'll offer an answer of my own, and hopefully @monochrome won't mind

It goes back to my earlier comment of being socially aware of the community, and consideration therein (both for new and established members). There are thoughtful ways to express frustrations and wants, just as there are thoughtful ways to respond... Consideration for all parties is helpful when exercised by both sides of the discussion.

Severe opinions encourage severe responses, and the first of our forum rules prevents inflammatory posting. From a moderator's point of view, it can be tricky to balance an appropriate level of "free speech" (within the rules, of course) on both sides. When opinions are balanced, and responses are unreasonably harsh, it's much easier (for me, at least) to make a decision and take action...


Last edited by BigMackCam; 08-17-2018 at 02:26 PM.
08-17-2018, 02:16 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by neokind Quote
So, are you suggesting that one should not express frustrations or wants to avoid triggering fellow members?
I’m not suggesting anything.

I’m saying that a first post from someone who snarking lists a set of purported Pentax faults that have been covered on this forum ad infinitum in the last decade is irritating. I’m saying Pentax does not ever claim to address the issues the OP is purportedly frustrated by, and Pentax is not the right brand for that. I’m saying Pentax is intentionally different from CaNiSony. I’m saying Pentax should not change to meet those needs - they’re already met by the other brands. I’m saying I intentionally chose and continue to choose Pentax specifically for the differences.

I’m saying life is too short to be frustrated by adult toys - just buy toys you like better if your toys aren’t satisfactory. I’m saying posts that legitimately read as if written only to irritate fellow members should be made on DPR, where the typical member will immediately hit the Like button.

At this time I shall respectfully withdraw from this conversation and Ignore the entire thread. Life is too short to be annoyed by inferences I did not make.

Last edited by monochrome; 08-17-2018 at 02:22 PM.
08-17-2018, 02:21 PM - 1 Like   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Wow. First post and into the ignore list.
Ditto !!
08-17-2018, 02:25 PM - 3 Likes   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
life is too short to be frustrated by adult toys
There are other websites for that kind of thing... I think we should probably stick to cameras, lenses and accessories

08-17-2018, 02:27 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I know you didn't ask me the question, but I'll offer an answer of my own, and hopefully @monochrome won't mind

It goes back to my earlier comment of being socially aware of the community, and consideration therein (both for new and established members). There are thoughtful ways to express frustrations and wants, just as there are thoughtful ways to respond... Consideration for all parties is helpful when exercised by both sides of the discussion. Severe opinions encourage severe responses, and the first of our forum rules prevents inflammatory posting.

From a moderator's point of view, it can be tricky to balance an appropriate level of "free speech" (within the rules, of course) on both sides. When opinions are balanced, and responses are unreasonably harsh, it's much easier (for me, at least) to make a decision and take action...
Absolutely. Again, like I responded to your post earlier, I agree. The OP's tone didn't project good will, but I guess I'm not too touchy about things like that. What I heard was a frustrated Pentaxian. I understood what he was getting at and tried to give the benefit of the doubt. Personally, I'd appreciate a more welcoming environment for praise AND criticism of all things Pentax. But the community is what we collectively make it.
08-17-2018, 02:30 PM   #66
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In my opinion Pentax is necessary an auto focus at the level of Nikon D5 with a set of cross-shaped points on all sensor, and also good video with high bitrate. And it is good to begin release of synchronizers or built in flash. It will be necessary to make ALL lenses at the level of DFA50/f1.4 I then NOBODY to write anything bad about Pentax
08-17-2018, 02:39 PM   #67
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Hi Takker, welcome to the forum.

First, let me say thank you for your post, as it should help foster a healthy boost in this month's post count.

As to your questions, many have already addressed the crux of your query; Pentax lead in many areas, so
why then aren't the other manufacturers catching up to Pentax? Considering you are a long time Pentax
customer, surely there must be something about all that Pentax gear that has not only attracted you in the
first place but brought you back for yet another purchase, again and again?

No matter. I understand it is easy to be dismissive of what you have and obsess over what you lack, (real
or perceived). I do the same thing with my own abilities and accomplishments. It's important to periodically
remind yourself of what you >do< have before flailing widely at what you >think< you lack. Once done, I think
you'll find your Pentax gear to be quite a powerful asset.

Nonetheless you may still find yourself wanting for something, 4K video perhaps. A perfectly valid want,
but again as others have pointed out, you would do best to thoroughly review the current offerings and weigh
them for their merits, (and shortcomings). Else you may find yourself making the same post to the Nikon, (et al),
forum at some point in the future with a similar tone of feedback.

Looking forward to your reply.

08-17-2018, 02:39 PM - 1 Like   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by suncomp Quote
In my opinion Pentax is necessary an auto focus at the level of Nikon D5 with a set of cross-shaped points on all sensor, and also good video with high bitrate.
That would be nice, but I don't think you'll see Pentax AF-C at that level any time soon. If and when it gets there, other brands will likely have jumped even further ahead. But no argument from me that Pentax needs to improve aspects of its AF-C performance.

As for video, the majority of Pentax users don't demand good video performance. Of course, we have some members with a legitimate interest in that area, but it seems pretty clear that Ricoh Imaging doesn't see this as a priority for its Pentax cameras.

See the results of our recent survey for more info.

QuoteOriginally posted by suncomp Quote
And it is good to begin release of synchronizers or built in flash.
Built-in flash is an interesting one. I know a lot of our members really like built-in flash. For me personally, I don't care for it. I don't doubt it can be useful, and I certainly have used it on occasion in the past... but I prefer to use external flash units, and I'd rather the body had the additional strength of a one-piece top section.

QuoteOriginally posted by suncomp Quote
It will be necessary to make ALL lenses at the level of DFA50/f1.4 I then NOBODY to write anything bad about Pentax
I disagree strongly here. The lens range needs to cater for all levels of enthusiast, with all levels of budget. Of course it would be ideal if there were fast wide, normal, short-tele and long-tele choices with the same overall qualities as the DFA50/1.4, but those would be some big and expensive lenses. I'd argue that only a relatively small subset of K-1 and K-1II users either want or could afford that type of glass...
08-17-2018, 02:42 PM - 2 Likes   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Takker Quote
Currently Pentax is way behind the rest of the market and the KP far from being the body that would bring the mid range back up to speed with the rest of the market,it has in fact shown that Pentax is still at least one generation if not 2 generations behind. Where is the touchscreen based auto focus, the battery grip is a great move but why change the screen so that you cannot fold it out when using the battery grip? It is poorly thought out and badly executed and low to mid range DSLR's in this era should have good video capabilities and use the 24Mp sensor to give 4K video capabilities. Ricoh/Pentax are way behind the rest on this. I love my Pentax gear I own 5 bodies and I don't know how many lenses but right now I am considering buying my first Nikon Body with dual lens kit and a 50mm prime to match because I need to shoot video and none of my Pentax gear will cut the mustard. It makes me very sad. If we compare the K70 to the Nikon D5600 there is no comparison the K70 seems 3+ years behind. I remember Pentax being ahead of the curve in the early period of DSLR development but that time is long gone...

So I ask when will we see Pentax catch up or is Ricoh planning on killing Pentax off altogether?
Where is the K-70 behind the D5600? Weather resistance, better iso performance, dual control dials, penta prism...... If I had to choose between the two the K-70 is my choice.

If you are so unhappy with Pentax. Why not sell all your gear and go buy a camera that can shoot the videos that you want.
08-17-2018, 02:49 PM - 7 Likes   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Takker Quote
Currently Pentax is way behind the rest of the market and the KP far from being the body that would bring the mid range back up to speed with the rest of the market,it has in fact shown that Pentax is still at least one generation if not 2 generations behind. Where is the touchscreen based auto focus, the battery grip is a great move but why change the screen so that you cannot fold it out when using the battery grip? It is poorly thought out and badly executed and low to mid range DSLR's in this era should have good video capabilities and use the 24Mp sensor to give 4K video capabilities. Ricoh/Pentax are way behind the rest on this. I love my Pentax gear I own 5 bodies and I don't know how many lenses but right now I am considering buying my first Nikon Body with dual lens kit and a 50mm prime to match because I need to shoot video and none of my Pentax gear will cut the mustard. It makes me very sad. If we compare the K70 to the Nikon D5600 there is no comparison the K70 seems 3+ years behind. I remember Pentax being ahead of the curve in the early period of DSLR development but that time is long gone...

So I ask when will we see Pentax catch up or is Ricoh planning on killing Pentax off altogether?
I wil not assume this to be trolling. I will go right to the meat of what is stated here. Despite your owning 5 Pentax bodies and numerous lenses, your assessments lead me to wonder about your experience in photography. Or maybe since you've always been shooting with Pentax DSLR cameras, you have not experienced using inferior equipment. I am not trying to make any disparaging remark, it is just that experience in using an SLR type of camera would negate much of your stated position here, and nearly all of your comparisons between Pentax and Nikon, in particular the D5600, which is not even up to the K-70's knees as a tool for photography.

I do not know where you got the disinformation about the KP's rear screen. It works the same with or without the battery grip.

I do understand your offering criticism regarding video. It is not that video from the Pentax lineup is not usable, the Nikon offerings are simply better. But the choice in developing and manufacturing with just so much to put into a product makes it necessary to make choices. For me, if I want truly good video performance, I will buy a dedicated video camera. I think its very nice to be able to include video clips, but this is not anywhere near the reason why one chooses to buy a DSLR. I hope prospective Pentax customers are reading.

Pentax has chosen to put their resources into offering the finest DSLR cameras for the price, that address the reasons for choosing a DSLR. Actually, it is very illustrative that you bring up the Nikon D5600 for comparison. Here we go-

First and fundamentally, an SLR or DSLR camera provides a viewfinder with which you are viewing reality right through the lens you are using instead of through another device, and/or an electronic re-creation of that reality.

Pentax K-70's VF: Professional-level glass pentaprism- (1) Heavier, brighter-viewing, and quite expensive. (2) Magnification: .95x
(3) Frame coverage: 100%

Nikon D5600's VF: Amateur-oriented pentamirror- (1) Lighter, dimmer, cheaper. (2) magnification: .82x (3) frame coverage: 95%

Pentax K-70 build quality: High-grade polycarbonate over metal frame, WR construction.

Nikon D5600 build quality. Good-grade polycarbonate, no WR construction. WR is only available in much more expensive Nikon models.

Pentax K-70 controls and operational features: Thumb and finger e-dials for speedy adjustments and selectivity in implementing various changes. Such a design is only available in Nikon's much more expensive models. This e-dial setup also avails the user of the exclusive Pentax Hyper Program System, which allows instant changes of aperture or shutter speed, switching to Av or Tv operation instantly without having to first change settings on the mode dial. The green button instantly restores "P" operation. Very fast and efficient for effectuating preferential changes on the fly.
In "M" mode, the green button allows instant setting of correct metered exposure without having to twirl the e-dials.
There are useful and innovative operational modes available, selectable via the mode dial, such as as Tav and Sv.
As others have indicated, there are advanced features available such as pixel-shift and enhancements for astro photography.

Nikon D5600 controls: Just one rear e-dial. In "M" mode, one must set the aperture and shutter speed individually, and simultaneously hold down a dual-purpose button to switch the e-dial between shutter speed and aperture adjustment- an inconvenience, especially when dealing with changing situations while shooting in "M" mode.

Pentax K-70 availability of usable lenses: AF is available for all AF lenses for Pentax, current and legacy. MF legacy glass for Pentax are also usable. Currently there are many Pentax lenses available with WR construction, including kit lenses. Since SR is built into the camera body, SR is available for all usable lenses, even MF legacy. In the US, for less than $800 one can get the K-70 plus the exceptionally well-built, but compact DA 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 DC WR lens. For not much more, one can choose the K-70 with a Pentax 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 WR lens plus choose the DA HD 55-300mm f/4-5.8 WR lens, which has been shown as having very good to excellent image quality even all the way out to 300mm.

Nikon D5600 availability of usable lenses: Will not AF with any AF lenses not having their own built-in AF motor. With the non-WR 2-lens kit offered with the D5600, there is a 15mm gap between the 18-55mm and the 70-300mm lenses. For lenses having WR, you can start fishing in the $1,000 waters.

Last edited by mikesbike; 08-17-2018 at 03:34 PM.
08-17-2018, 02:57 PM - 2 Likes   #71
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@mikesbike - great post, with some interesting detail info on the D5600 that I wasn't aware of...

Is that true about it having only the one e-dial?? Wow... Even my old Samsung GX10 (K10D) has two

It seems I take a lot of "standard" Pentax features for granted.
08-17-2018, 03:00 PM - 3 Likes   #72
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If it does nothing else, this thread certainly shows how much passion there is for Pentax in the community! 5 pages of responses in a very short time!

As many have said its horses for courses. If the Pentax features suit you then great, otherwise you have other options.
But that said Pentax is not necessarily behind the other brands (depending on what you are considering as important) and has plenty strengths. Big ones for me are great lens mount backward compatibility, IBIS, relatively small (while still having a great OVF), ergonomics, and value for money. Also I must mention the hyper program mode (you don't need to change into AV or TV unless you particularly want to) - I don't think Canon or Nikon have properly caught up (you can get close by changing options) yet - no idea why as I would hate to be without it personally.

Personally I find Pentax video fine (for my infrequent use but I'm no videographer) and AF on the latest Pentax bodies is actually pretty good - but yes this is one area where other manufacturers are ahead (on high end bodies anyway).

So go with the brand / camera that suits your needs - if you feel Pentax is missing features you need and can live without some of the Pentax advantages, then of course change brand.
08-17-2018, 03:14 PM - 2 Likes   #73
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I brought the Kp for stills and especially for low light - it's not really behind anything in class. It's not great for video, but will do in a pinch.

I brought Panasonic for video - It's good for that, not great for stills or low light, but it will do in a pinch.

I don't actually find either system a limitation.
08-17-2018, 03:42 PM - 1 Like   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by neokind Quote
So, are you suggesting that one should not express frustrations or wants to avoid triggering fellow members?
Just don't do it in a whiny or insistent way and all will be well


Steve
08-17-2018, 04:03 PM - 10 Likes   #75
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The simple answer to the OP's question - Never.

Catching up implies that a Pentax camera is and should be like the others. Granted there are some features that a Pentax camera should have in 2018, and are sorely missing, but catch up? No. That is never going to happen because a Pentax is different.

I'm not going to slather my Pentaxian cred around, but I can assure you I will always own a Pentax because I consider the K5/K3/K1 to be my premiere "field" cameras even when I have many other cameras that I use day to day.

In actual use, out in the world, I can get the job done if I have one of those cameras. They can get wet and I can sweat on them. They can handle the cold. The battery life is amazing. They are tough, and rock-solid reliable. Because a Pentax is a Pentax, you get a camera this is about taking images. Pure and honestly, you get what you put into them.

No one sits around and pretends with a Pentax.
You either take images with one, or fail posing around posers with one.

So catch up? No.
Some features we need in 2018? Yes.
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