[noelpolar]

Pentax is a bit like me, an acquired taste.

[zippythezip]

So will OP make a second post? I got popcorn ready.

[Imp]

Sure, Imp, if we believe in the best tools for the job (and we swap lenses because of that principle) of course you would have entirely different ones, and different brands too when it comes to it.

If I was starting, and my first camera was a Panny G7 to shoot video with, I'd end up also having to buy a Pentax to satisfy my stills needs. I couldn't just be restricted to shooting with that noisy little sensor.

Yup. I'm talking multi-systems. I'm considering the reverse, adding a g7 or g85 to supplement my Pentax kit

[altopiet]

I don't use it a whole lot, but it certainly doesn't hurt me to have it on the camera and if it sells a few more camera bodies then that's probably a good thing for money for future development

Agree....

IMO quite a few Pentax users are in denial, and either don't realize or don't want to know that a major shift is taking place in DSLR and MILC systems, and the fact that Nikon and Canon are also getting on the bandwagon, is that they realize the inevitability of change in consumer preferences. They are larger companies that could afford sitting back these past few years and wait to see if MILC got traction in the industry....well they've seen the future and are powerful enough to adapt with speed and successfully incorporate that system in their lineup.

It's probably easy to say Pentax will survive if they don't go that route or don't add, without to much expense, extra features to their existing lineup, like decent video (not that I use it), to either increase or at least maintain their position in the market, but being shifted from one owner to the other over time, ending with companies with their main focus in other products, will probably not bode well for the future of the brand. I see a consolidation in the industry in the not too distant future, with some of the smaller players forced to amalgamate to survive, or probably just being swallowed by one of the main players.


A would think a younger generation of users prefer the more advanced technology, and the aging die-hard fans will probably be dragged into the future albeit kicking and screaming

[Takker]

Well what a response to my first post in many years. I will not respond to individual posts as there are too many.

It saddens me that so many of the responses believe I am trolling.

I am also shocked that it seems that a great many members of these forums cannot tolerate criticism of their chosen brand. A camera is a tool, a tool to use for work or for your hobby but none the less a tool…

As I said in my original post I love my Pentax gear and I think it cannot be beaten for still image Photography and there is no doubt that the K1ii is the best value Still image camera on the market. But as I have found myself getting a lot of requests from friends for video and I also feel the time has come for me to start shooting video for my own needs I feel that modern photographic equipment should have the ability to shoot high quality video. Pentax is sadly lacking in this area. I am not suggesting that the K1 should be shooting high end video it’s not designed for that job but mid-range and low end DSLRs should have the ability to shoot good quality video with ease and have autofocus abilities to cope with that. In this era that means touchscreen controlled autofocus and a fold out LCD screen that can be viewed from the front of the camera for those moments when you are working in front of the camera as well as behind.

As for the various criticisms of points I have made, build quality and WR does not qualify as these are not new for Pentax and the Nikon I mentioned has good build quality and WR
I have been looking at that particular model because it is a middle of the road camera it does stills well and it does video well it is not a world beater at either of these but it does them well enough to give a result of the quality I will be comfortable with. (If for instance I was going on holiday I would still take a select kit of my Pentax gear with me as well as the Nikon)

It really is sad that so many here cannot consider that a criticism can be reasonable and valid. It’s feels like I have gone onto an Apple forum and dared to criticise the iPhone

If I am wrong about the KP screen then I apologise but tell me if you are using the battery grip can you see the screen from the front of the camera?

[Rondec]

Agree....

IMO quite a few Pentax users are in denial, and either don't realize or don't want to know that a major shift is taking place in DSLR and MILC systems, and the fact that Nikon and Canon are also getting on the bandwagon, is that they realize the inevitability of change in consumer preferences. They are larger companies that could afford sitting back these past few years and wait to see if MILC got traction in the industry....well they've seen the future and are powerful enough to adapt with speed and successfully incorporate that system in their lineup.

It's probably easy to say Pentax will survive if they don't go that route or don't add, without to much expense, extra features to their existing lineup, like decent video (not that I use it), to either increase or at least maintain their position in the market, but being shifted from one owner to the other over time, ending with companies with their main focus in other products, will probably not bode well for the future of the brand. I see a consolidation in the industry in the not too distant future, with some of the smaller players forced to amalgamate to survive, or probably just being swallowed by one of the main players.


A would think a younger generation of users prefer the more advanced technology, and the aging die-hard fans will probably be dragged into the future albeit kicking and screaming

I just think a lot of older photographers have a perception that if everything they don't use was left off the camera (scene modes, video, filters, GPS, and maybe even auto focus) that Pentax could release a stellar camera that would be amazingly cheap. The problem with that idea is that most of the things they are leaving off are software and not hardware and therefore relatively cheap to implement. Furthermore, such a camera would sell significantly fewer copies than current cameras do and therefore actually end up being more expensive as a result.

[normhead]

IMO quite a few Pentax users are in denial, and either don't realize or don't want to know that a major shift is taking place in DSLR and MILC systems, and the fact that Nikon and Canon are also getting on the bandwagon, is that they realize the inevitability of change in consumer preferences.

If it doesn't affect pentax sales or market share, then it's irrelevant to Pentax what's happening elsewhere.

Saying Pentax users are in denial, that's incredibly rude. Ignoring the irrelevant is different to denial and just as possible an explanation.
You really need a long look in the mirror if you think that was a respectful intelligent thing to say.

A would think a younger generation of users prefer the more advanced technology, and the aging die-hard fans will probably be dragged into the future albeit kicking and screaming

Wow, so having the technical skills that make a lot of modern technology un-necessary makes you one of these- " the aging die-hard fans will probably be dragged into the future albeit kicking and screaming."
Are you just born nasty or are you a self made man?

Do you actually read over your posts to see how many people you just insulted?

Pentax users are in denia

l

I would think a younger generation of users prefer the more advanced technology, and the aging die-hard fans will probably be dragged into the future albeit kicking and screaming

We are so blessed to be in the presence of such an aware forward thinking person. <sarcasm>
That was just nasty.

"When I was 15 I thought my dad was really stupid, when I was 21 I couldn't believe how much he'd learned in just 6 years."

Any post based on perceived deficiencies based on age are simply inappropriate. As are insults aimed at people based on their camera preferences and assumptions about what technology is appropriate for them. You're just way out of line.

---

Last edited by normhead; 08-18-2018 at 07:34 AM.

[Pål Jensen]

A a younger generation of users prefer the more advanced technology, and the aging die-hard fans will probably be dragged into the future albeit kicking and screaming

Mirrorless is less advanced technology than slr.
Pentax made the first Japanese slr back in the 50s when Nikon and Canon were making mirrorless cameras.

[reh321]

I'm new to this forum, but have been using Pentax for 10+ years. My first Pentax was K10D which at the time seem really ahead considering quality/ergonomics/price. I love Pentax usability, convenience and raw image quality as well as unique features as astrotracer. I've been a strong advocate for Pentax and persuaded friends to get one instead of canikon.

However I also share the increasing frustration and that's what lead me to the this forum in the first place. I've already considered jumping ships a couple of years ago, but the owned lenses and ergonomics made me stay with Pentax. And yet the frustration accumulates. One of the reasons why I chose Pentax was the weather sealing. I've carried my gear to various harsh and hard to reach places, dirty environments and expeditions in these cases every gram counts, but once I'm there I'd like to be able to make at least a decent video and carrying another dedicated video camera is just not an option. I do not have very high requirements for video, but when technology keeps improving, and so does expectations. When every other brand, smartphones, drones etc. is capable of 4k video with autofocus, and your beloved Pentax with your beloved lenses leaves you with subpar capabilities it is really frustrating.

And it's not only about the video. I prefer aps-c for it's smaller size and better portability, but this line is neglected for quite some years now. Pentax is slow with new modern lenses and many third party lens manufacturers simply gave up with Pentax and do not support the mount.
Studio work with no tethering is doable, but not convenient. Even a bit more intense action when af-c is required (not talking about fast sports) keeps you wondering if you really get your shot in focus, or finally in family/social situations when other people use the camera it's a lottery if a shot will be in focus or a subject would not be covered by the narrow focus points area. This takes away the joy of taking pictures.

Sure one can say if your friends cannot focus a picture use a phone instead, or buy a dedicated videocamera, or buy another brand for action. Well what does it leave Pentax for? The niche is getting increasingly narrow and offers no place for wider usage. It makes the overall impression that there's not much to expect from Pentax especially in aps-c front. Long gone are the days when Pentax was the only brand offering ibis, weather sealing and good image quality. Yes there are some die hard loyalists (I still consider myself being one), but what about attracting new users? It's just sad that Pentax is not willing to improve on those areas. As much as I don't want to jump ships it seems that there just are no other options for the next upgrade

I don't know anything about the camera market in Japan, but that is what Pentax is said to build for. From their recent offerings, I'm guessing fewer Japanese do PP, because Pentax seems to have put a lot of effort into JPEG produced by the camera. Another area of strength is high ISO performance - Pentax and Sony are usually very high in the DxOMark "sports" scores, which area actually overall high-ISO rating. They also seem to be focusing on landscape instead of "events". If you look at a larger company, such as Nikon, they build the D7200 for landscape and the D7500 for "events"; Pentax is able to offer just one of those two options. I don't understand your comments about focusing - even my K-30 is able to focus on family and other social events; only when I'm chasing small animals do I feel I might be in a "lottery" situation.

[BigMackCam]

It saddens me that so many of the responses believe I am trolling.

I am also shocked that it seems that a great many members of these forums cannot tolerate criticism of their chosen brand.

...

It really is sad that so many here cannot consider that a criticism can be reasonable and valid. It’s feels like I have gone onto an Apple forum and dared to criticise the iPhone

As I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, with respect I think you could have made your posting entrance to the community with a little more awareness and consideration Even so, some of our members could have been more considerate in their responses.

If you walk into a pub in Tottenham just before a big football game and tell fans you've never met before that their team is terribly outdated compared to other teams, I think you and I can guess what the outcome of that would be

Anyway, no harm done. We're all big boys and girls. Let's dust ourselves down and move on

Welcome back, and we look forward to your involvement here

[SSGGeezer]

If I am wrong about the KP screen then I apologise but tell me if you are using the battery grip can you see the screen from the front of the camera?

You did not say folds out to use as a selfie screen, you just said to fold out. It has never been visible from in front of the camera and otherwise, works as designed with the grip on. I used it last night as a matter of fact.
Your comparison to the 5600 is obviously flawed as @Mikesbike debunked pretty much any claim the Nikon might have to superiority.


Before you come claiming that users are Hyper-defensive, you should read the posts more carefully and have someone else read your initial post and see if more attitude seems to come through than would be desired in an initial post to a specific forum. There have been many instances of trolls from DPR coming over to run and gun a single post with the same tone as your initial post, who never have anything to contribute other than nastiness.
The folks who have been here longer than I are certainly sensitive to the possibility that you could have been one also. If you are interested, there are multiple posts discussing what people hope and want Pentax to do to improve their products and browsing the forums and doing a bit of reading before posting something with a strongly negative tone might have made your start here better. For instance: Most folks start in the Welcome thread and say who they are and what they shoot, ask any questions about where to find specific information, then jump in to the forums and have fun.


Let's start over, OK?

[reh321]

Agree....

IMO quite a few Pentax users are in denial, and either don't realize or don't want to know that a major shift is taking place in DSLR and MILC systems, and the fact that Nikon and Canon are also getting on the bandwagon, is that they realize the inevitability of change in consumer preferences. They are larger companies that could afford sitting back these past few years and wait to see if MILC got traction in the industry....well they've seen the future and are powerful enough to adapt with speed and successfully incorporate that system in their lineup.

It's probably easy to say Pentax will survive if they don't go that route or don't add, without to much expense, extra features to their existing lineup, like decent video (not that I use it), to either increase or at least maintain their position in the market, but being shifted from one owner to the other over time, ending with companies with their main focus in other products, will probably not bode well for the future of the brand. I see a consolidation in the industry in the not too distant future, with some of the smaller players forced to amalgamate to survive, or probably just being swallowed by one of the main players.

A would think a younger generation of users prefer the more advanced technology, and the aging die-hard fans will probably be dragged into the future albeit kicking and screaming

You seem to be using the words "advanced technology" as short for "Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera". There are other kinds of technology in the world - for example the 'accelerator" which puts the KP ahead of even Nikons D500.
Pentax KP First Shots: Going head-to-head against the Nikon D500 at ISO 819,200!

[Not a Number]

How about the self-screen on the Canon EOS-M that flips down? Works great except when you have a selfie stick or anything in the tripod socket. Damn clever, those Canon engineers.

[ffking]

The argument about video has been round the houses many times, and it has been mentioned many times (maybe including here? - I haven't read all the posts) - is that part of Pentax's strategy has been to use slightly older sensors then get the best out of them, and this keeps the price down and delivers cameras with great stills IQ but out of date video - but the out of date video is a byproduct of the sensors used and a consequence of trying to make competitively priced cameras. There's no free lunch.

As Pentax goes upmarket, which seems to be the direction of travel Ricoh are taking with class leading AF lenses, then they might start to compete more directly on camera bodies - none of us knows - but for the time being, the bodies do what they are made to do exceptionally well, and as long as Pentax doesn't make a loss and Ricoh femain solvent, there's no reason for Ricoh to sell it on

[philanker2012]

If I am wrong about the KP screen then I apologise but tell me if you are using the battery grip can you see the screen from the front of the camera?

I think you are confusing the K70 and KP screens.

The K70 screen will fold out and flip round for that selfie moment, the KP screen folds out but will not flip round. So, in answer to your question the KP screen cannot be seen from the front with or without the battery grip fitted.

Having had both cameras I actually prefer the KP screen not just because I don`t need to see it from the front but it is less fiddly and it is possible to programme one of the dials to turn it on and off when viewing settings.