When will Pentax catch up to the other big makers?

ChristianRock · 08-23-2018, 12:28 PM - **3 Likes**

Count me with the OVF crowd as well. If Pentax ends up being the last OVF/DSLR manufacturer, I think this might even increase their market presence. My only concern is that without competition from Nikon and Canon, they could become complacent. But cameras are at such a high level, that even that wouldn't be a deal breaker.

Long live Pentax, long live the OVF, long live the mirror!!!

MarkJerling · 08-23-2018, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by ChristianRock

Count me with the OVF crowd as well. If Pentax ends up being the last OVF/DSLR manufacturer, I think this might even increase their market presence. My only concern is that without competition from Nikon and Canon, they could become complacent. But cameras are at such a high level, that even that wouldn't be a deal breaker.

Long live Pentax, long live the OVF

I second that.

ChristianRock · 08-23-2018, 12:36 PM

In addition, I think there will always be a niche market for OVF/DSLR just like there is one for film and other smaller market products. Some people can't physically use an EVF - it's not a matter of preference, they feel sick looking at the screen. Others (like me) prefer it as long as there's not a huge overprice (in other words, if Pentax goes to Leica prices I'm out, though I can't possibly happen because that's not the Pentax ethos).

Progbusters · 08-23-2018, 12:41 PM

yup let them have their vlogging selfie prosumer toys with touchscreen and auto-everything gadgets. keep pentax for photographers. long live true glass

**ffking** · 08-23-2018, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by ChristianRock

My only concern is that without competition from Nikon and Canon, they could become complacent

I don't think they could ever become complacent when they have to convince people to buy unfashionable cameras - they'd need more unique features than an OVF, IMO

**LaurenOE** · 08-23-2018, 03:48 PM - **1 Like**

On the OVF vs. EVF topic...until you use an EVF you won't understand how handy it is. As I said before, Sony has a function called "DMF" which is short for Direct Manual Focusing.

What this does is make focusing, and punching in and magnifying the image extraordinarily easy. With the settings dialed in, you can just touch the focus ring and...bam...you have instant zoom in the focus...along with viewfinder focus peaking, histograms, levels and a bunch of other things...things a OVF can't do.

On an OVF/Pentax, you have to go to live view - probably on a tripod - hit the OK button and punch in and magnify the focus and take your eye away from the OVF.

DMF is a game changer and one of the things I love about EVFs.
Because the viewfinder is electronic, you can do some things that an OVF can't do that have a direct impact on your workflow.

I love OVFs, but there are some things that can't be done without electronic views. Those EVF things tend to really offset my love for the OVF since they impact what I am taking pictures of.

If folks argue the OVF vs. EVF from a purist's view, without really understand what can be enhanced or better, are really not understanding how the tools are used.

**dadipentak** · 08-23-2018, 03:49 PM

EVF is weird. It doesn't give you a sense of what the photo will really look like the way OVF does. You just have to trust your judgement but I'm getting used to that.

**LaurenOE** · 08-23-2018, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by dadipentak

EVF is weird. It doesn't give you a sense of what the photo will really look like the way OVF does. You just have to trust your judgement but I'm getting used to that.

Yeah, that is one of the things. Although, because with an OVF, you are wide open, you don't get a sense of the DOF unless you stop down in preview...and because it's NOT an EVF you get a dark(er) image...and why folks don't seem to use DOF preview much because of that.

I don't like an EVF per se, but the benefits outweigh the niggles.

I think Sony experimented with a hybrid viewfinder, but that did not catch on. I think they understood the benefits of both, but couldn't get it to catch on, so they abandoned one...or do they still have a camera with the hybrid system? I think the Alpha dSLRs have it?

The thing about Sony, is they do stuff that makes me crazy, but at the same time they do things that are truly brilliant.

surfar · 08-23-2018, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by LaurenOE

Yeah, that is one of the things. Although, because with an OVF, you are wide open, you don't get a sense of the DOF unless you stop down in preview...and because it's NOT an EVF you get a dark(er) image...and why folks don't seem to use DOF preview much because of that.

I don't like an EVF per se, but the benefits outweigh the niggles.

I think Sony experimented with a hybrid viewfinder, but that did not catch on. I think they understood the benefits of both, but couldn't get it to catch on, so they abandoned one...or do they still have a camera with the hybrid system? I think the Alpha dSLRs have it?

The thing about Sony, is they do stuff that makes me crazy, but at the same time they do things that are truly brilliant.

Originally posted by LaurenOE

The thing about Sony, is they do stuff that makes me crazy, but at the same time they do things that are truly brilliant

Its what they dont do thats CRAZY,...get the WR up to standard,uncomplicate menus....

Originally posted by LaurenOE

I don't like an EVF per se,

You may like the new one $$$ony is/has developed...5.6million.May arrive in A7S 3,but thats a guess.

---------- Post added 08-24-18 at 11:00 AM ----------

Originally posted by MarkJerling

I second that.

You are coming 2nd next game!

MarkJerling · 08-23-2018, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by surfar

You are coming 2nd next game!

Ye'r dreamin' mate!

pxt · 08-25-2018, 11:24 AM

Pentax with better AF and better in bunch of quantity compact lens like limited series will change everything.

larryaustin3 · 08-25-2018, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by clackers

Much better to bring the JPG into your phone with the ImageSync app, Larry. I have the Ricoh GR II and it already does this.

You can tweet or add to your Facebook timeline as needed, or go through PP with Snapseed or similar first. The work flow is entirely compatible with what you do with the Pentax DSLRs.

Judging from the reviews on Google Play, most people share my opinion that Image Sync totally sucks.

**clackers** · 08-25-2018, 04:38 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by larryaustin3

Judging from the reviews on Google Play, most people share my opinion that Image Sync totally sucks.

I'm not sure if they're informed reviews, Larry, because my Canon, Sony and Samsung work in pretty much the same way.

A reality check for people is that it is normal for all the brands for JPGs will be transferred very slowly by the tiny, weak WiFi, and RAW perhaps not at all.

Genuine tethering by USB (and for pros, Ethernet) to a monitor or back to an agency FTP server still involves copper wiring.

derekkite · 08-25-2018, 04:49 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by clackers

I'm not sure if they're informed reviews, Larry, because my Canon, Sony and Samsung work in pretty much the same way.

A reality check for people is that it is normal for all the brands for JPGs will be transferred very slowly by the tiny, weak WiFi, and RAW perhaps not at all.

Genuine tethering by USB (and for pros, Ethernet) to a monitor or back to an agency FTP server still involves copper wiring.

Nikon as well. They suck. The Pentax one seems to miss the purpose of having a remote. I think this will change, and we will see access to all the shooting modes on the lens.

donpjt · 08-28-2018, 08:59 AM

Honestly I don't see a huge different myself when I used EVF vs OVF. the EVF camera's like the Lumix are pretty light and so I can look at the screen and focus, which is as good or better than focusing through the viewfinder. I sometimes find it easier to use a manual focus lens on the EVF cameras because they are lighter and therefore I can easily use focus peaking handheld, whereas for a DSLR focus peaking handheld is much harder because of the larger weight. Plus touch focusing is really helpful for videos or if you are using a weird angle and holding the camera up high etc.

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08-23-2018, 12:28 PM - 3 Likes	#256
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,911	Count me with the OVF crowd as well. If Pentax ends up being the last OVF/DSLR manufacturer, I think this might even increase their market presence. My only concern is that without competition from Nikon and Canon, they could become complacent. But cameras are at such a high level, that even that wouldn't be a deal breaker. Long live Pentax, long live the OVF, long live the mirror!!!

08-23-2018, 12:28 PM	#257
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,421	Originally posted by ChristianRock Count me with the OVF crowd as well. If Pentax ends up being the last OVF/DSLR manufacturer, I think this might even increase their market presence. My only concern is that without competition from Nikon and Canon, they could become complacent. But cameras are at such a high level, that even that wouldn't be a deal breaker. Long live Pentax, long live the OVF I second that.

08-23-2018, 12:36 PM	#258
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,911	In addition, I think there will always be a niche market for OVF/DSLR just like there is one for film and other smaller market products. Some people can't physically use an EVF - it's not a matter of preference, they feel sick looking at the screen. Others (like me) prefer it as long as there's not a huge overprice (in other words, if Pentax goes to Leica prices I'm out, though I can't possibly happen because that's not the Pentax ethos).

08-23-2018, 12:41 PM	#259
Progbusters Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: SF BAY AREA Posts: 63	yup let them have their vlogging selfie prosumer toys with touchscreen and auto-everything gadgets. keep pentax for photographers. long live true glass

08-23-2018, 01:43 PM	#260
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,039	Originally posted by ChristianRock My only concern is that without competition from Nikon and Canon, they could become complacent I don't think they could ever become complacent when they have to convince people to buy unfashionable cameras - they'd need more unique features than an OVF, IMO

08-23-2018, 03:48 PM - 1 Like	#261
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690	On the OVF vs. EVF topic...until you use an EVF you won't understand how handy it is. As I said before, Sony has a function called "DMF" which is short for Direct Manual Focusing. What this does is make focusing, and punching in and magnifying the image extraordinarily easy. With the settings dialed in, you can just touch the focus ring and...bam...you have instant zoom in the focus...along with viewfinder focus peaking, histograms, levels and a bunch of other things...things a OVF can't do. On an OVF/Pentax, you have to go to live view - probably on a tripod - hit the OK button and punch in and magnify the focus and take your eye away from the OVF. DMF is a game changer and one of the things I love about EVFs. Because the viewfinder is electronic, you can do some things that an OVF can't do that have a direct impact on your workflow. I love OVFs, but there are some things that can't be done without electronic views. Those EVF things tend to really offset my love for the OVF since they impact what I am taking pictures of. If folks argue the OVF vs. EVF from a purist's view, without really understand what can be enhanced or better, are really not understanding how the tools are used.

08-23-2018, 03:49 PM	#262
dadipentak Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,590	EVF is weird. It doesn't give you a sense of what the photo will really look like the way OVF does. You just have to trust your judgement but I'm getting used to that.

08-23-2018, 04:05 PM	#263
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690	Originally posted by dadipentak EVF is weird. It doesn't give you a sense of what the photo will really look like the way OVF does. You just have to trust your judgement but I'm getting used to that. Yeah, that is one of the things. Although, because with an OVF, you are wide open, you don't get a sense of the DOF unless you stop down in preview...and because it's NOT an EVF you get a dark(er) image...and why folks don't seem to use DOF preview much because of that. I don't like an EVF per se, but the benefits outweigh the niggles. I think Sony experimented with a hybrid viewfinder, but that did not catch on. I think they understood the benefits of both, but couldn't get it to catch on, so they abandoned one...or do they still have a camera with the hybrid system? I think the Alpha dSLRs have it? The thing about Sony, is they do stuff that makes me crazy, but at the same time they do things that are truly brilliant.

08-23-2018, 04:58 PM	#264
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,142	Originally posted by LaurenOE Yeah, that is one of the things. Although, because with an OVF, you are wide open, you don't get a sense of the DOF unless you stop down in preview...and because it's NOT an EVF you get a dark(er) image...and why folks don't seem to use DOF preview much because of that. I don't like an EVF per se, but the benefits outweigh the niggles. I think Sony experimented with a hybrid viewfinder, but that did not catch on. I think they understood the benefits of both, but couldn't get it to catch on, so they abandoned one...or do they still have a camera with the hybrid system? I think the Alpha dSLRs have it? The thing about Sony, is they do stuff that makes me crazy, but at the same time they do things that are truly brilliant. Originally posted by LaurenOE The thing about Sony, is they do stuff that makes me crazy, but at the same time they do things that are truly brilliant Its what they dont do thats CRAZY,...get the WR up to standard,uncomplicate menus.... Originally posted by LaurenOE I don't like an EVF per se, You may like the new one $$$ony is/has developed...5.6million.May arrive in A7S 3,but thats a guess. ---------- Post added 08-24-18 at 11:00 AM ---------- Originally posted by MarkJerling I second that. You are coming 2nd next game!

08-23-2018, 05:10 PM	#265
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,421	Originally posted by surfar You are coming 2nd next game! Ye'r dreamin' mate!

08-25-2018, 11:24 AM	#266
pxt Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 290	Pentax with better AF and better in bunch of quantity compact lens like limited series will change everything.

08-25-2018, 02:50 PM	#267
larryaustin3 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 105	Originally posted by clackers Much better to bring the JPG into your phone with the ImageSync app, Larry. I have the Ricoh GR II and it already does this. You can tweet or add to your Facebook timeline as needed, or go through PP with Snapseed or similar first. The work flow is entirely compatible with what you do with the Pentax DSLRs. Judging from the reviews on Google Play, most people share my opinion that Image Sync totally sucks.

08-25-2018, 04:38 PM - 1 Like	#268
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by larryaustin3 Judging from the reviews on Google Play, most people share my opinion that Image Sync totally sucks. I'm not sure if they're informed reviews, Larry, because my Canon, Sony and Samsung work in pretty much the same way. A reality check for people is that it is normal for all the brands for JPGs will be transferred very slowly by the tiny, weak WiFi, and RAW perhaps not at all. Genuine tethering by USB (and for pros, Ethernet) to a monitor or back to an agency FTP server still involves copper wiring.

08-25-2018, 04:49 PM - 1 Like	#269
derekkite Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nelson B.C. Posts: 3,782	Originally posted by clackers I'm not sure if they're informed reviews, Larry, because my Canon, Sony and Samsung work in pretty much the same way. A reality check for people is that it is normal for all the brands for JPGs will be transferred very slowly by the tiny, weak WiFi, and RAW perhaps not at all. Genuine tethering by USB (and for pros, Ethernet) to a monitor or back to an agency FTP server still involves copper wiring. Nikon as well. They suck. The Pentax one seems to miss the purpose of having a remote. I think this will change, and we will see access to all the shooting modes on the lens.

08-28-2018, 08:59 AM	#270
donpjt Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Houston, TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 190	Honestly I don't see a huge different myself when I used EVF vs OVF. the EVF camera's like the Lumix are pretty light and so I can look at the screen and focus, which is as good or better than focusing through the viewfinder. I sometimes find it easier to use a manual focus lens on the EVF cameras because they are lighter and therefore I can easily use focus peaking handheld, whereas for a DSLR focus peaking handheld is much harder because of the larger weight. Plus touch focusing is really helpful for videos or if you are using a weird angle and holding the camera up high etc.