When will Pentax catch up to the other big makers?

Not a Number · 09-04-2018, 04:04 PM - **1 Like**

4K video is likely a gimmick anyway:

Youtu.be

Mark Ransom · 09-04-2018, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by MarkJerling

If we're going to have a touchscreen, it would be cool if it worked wirelessly with the body and was completely detachable like a little tablet. Then, of course, we'd lose the tablet and would need to buy a replacement.

On second thought, maybe not!

I think you just described a remote control app on a cell phone. You'd certainly be less likely to lose it.

MarkJerling · 09-04-2018, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by Mark Ransom

I think you just described a remote control app on a cell phone. You'd certainly be less likely to lose it.

Very true. I think it could be quite handy if the whole rear display could be duplicated on a mobile phone screen, complete with access to the menus, etc.

But, don't underestimate my ability to lose said device!

(The amount of times I need to ring my mobile to find it.....)

aaacb · 09-04-2018, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by MarkJerling

'd much rather see a higher frame rate, bigger buffer and wickedly good AF

I would like to see the same, as well as faster card writers. On a side note, better AF would also require lens development/updates and not just the camera, and that makes it even more expensive (for us buyers too

). Since I got the 55-300 plm, it's like my k3ii is a new camera when it comes to action, at least compared to the 60-250 which I had before and thought to be OK.

reh321 · 09-04-2018, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by bigdavephoto

What the Takker was asking is, why Pentax is NOT putting better video into the DSLR cameras.

That may be what he wants to know, but that is not what he asks - he asks a very broad generic question. Pentax cameras are superb for stills photography, but they have certain lacks that would irritate a videographer.

Most modern cameras evolved from stills-only cameras in the film era, a time when no one would ever think of doing stills and movies using the same camera. The simple fact is that Pentax largely retains that orientation; they have shown little interest in pushing video, so Pentax is not a good choice for someone who thinks of a camera as a video machine.

dubyam · 09-04-2018, 06:33 PM - **1 Like**

I've said this many times, and it's as true now as the first time I said it, maybe 15yrs ago:

If you want to take video, there are cameras which are designed to do that, and do it very well. They have better motion-accommodating focus, better compression algorithms for storage of files, and optical zoom which makes most of our zoom lenses feel small. If video is your thing, a camera designed to take video is your best tool.

Beyond that, I'll also state, reciprocally, that the best still images don't, in my experience, come from cameras which are good at taking video. Sure, focus is excellent in a lot of these images (though it's not in some...) but depth of field and dimensionality are sorely lacking in most of the still pics I've seen from cameras which take good video.

Mark Twain once famously said something along the lines of, If the only tool in your box is a hammer, all your problems will start to look like nails. If you want great still photos, with good image quality, high dynamic range, proper color rendition, good depth and texture, Pentax is a great option. If you want good video, buy something else. I own one of each, and use the right tool for the job.

Lord Lucan · 09-11-2018, 03:29 AM - **2 Likes**

For the difference in price between my K-1 and the equivalent Nikon or Canon that are supposed to be better at video, I could buy a damn good video camera. But that's only if I wanted to do video.

Mark Ransom · 09-11-2018, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by Lord Lucan

For the difference in price between my K-1 and the equivalent Nikon or Canon that are supposed to be better at video, I could buy a damn good video camera. But that's only if I wanted to do video.

Then you'd have to carry two cameras and ignore all the fine lenses you have for your DSLR.

normhead · 09-11-2018, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by Mark Ransom

Then you'd have to carry two cameras and ignore all the fine lenses you have for your DSLR.

It's still a better solution. Even 4 k video is a fraction the resolution of a still camera, about 8 MP. You don't need a lens capable of resolving 24 MP or 36 MP for video. They are overkill and way more weight than you need.

We are talking home video here. Every pro I've talked to or seen post has said cameras are not equivalent to dedicated video for professional work. Let's keep this in perspective.

Mark Ransom · 09-11-2018, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by normhead

It's still a better solution. Even 4 k video is a fraction the resolution of a still camera, about 8 MP. You don't need a lens capable of resolving 24 MP or 36 MP for video. They are overkill and way more weight than you need.

We are talking home video here. Every pro I've talked to or seen post has said cameras are not equivalent to dedicated video for professional work. Let's keep this in perspective.

Exactly! Pros will buy what pros need for the job. If video is only an occasional need, as a non-pro I don't want to get a separate device for it.

normhead · 09-11-2018, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by Mark Ransom

Exactly! Pros will buy what pros need for the job. If video is only an occasional need, as a non-pro I don't want to get a separate device for it.

But you have to have 4k video. Video is an occasional need for me , and Pentax video has always done the job.I have no idea what you guys are talking about when you say Pentax doesn't do video. It does do video. You're defining some kind of articial line in the sand, where you don't need pro video, but Pentax video isn't good enough. Talk about nit picking.

And the above video is really good. You have 8k pixels on your 4 k monitor, but you only have 6k cones in your eye. And most people still prefer 1080P for video. Who are these 4 k video freaks? The utility of 4 k TVs is their ability to upscale smaller formats for viewing from further away.

When you see someone say, they need 4k video, well they are basically as far as anyone can tell are saying they want it, just because it's there. Unless they are like me and using it so they can walk up to a 55 inch diagonal image and look at it at 72 dpi, they aren't even using it.

keos · 09-11-2018, 09:15 AM

21 pages and I can't believe nobody mentioned this.

Pentax needs to find a way to convince 3rd part lens makers to continue making lenses for its system. Sigma has all but stopped making any new lenses for Pentax. the 50-100 1.8 Art would be great on the system with body SR making it a much more versatile lens than on a Canon or Nikon, but alas after talking with a Sigma rep that will never come to fruition. And when was the last Tamron lens for Pentax made? (yes, I know some of the newer lenses are Tamron designs. not what I meant)

I don't think a camera maker will ever make a master of all camera; the A7III comes really close, but there are some things it does not do well.
I think the question that should be asked is, what features can Ricoh incorporate/needs to incorporate that will make Pentax a viable choice in the consumer market without taking away the soul of Pentax cameras? Pentax cameras has some great advantages over other cameras at the same price point (and sometimes beyond). It still needs a healthy ecosystem.

Pentax as a brand is in danger if for every 2 people that leaves only 1 comes in, and we're already seeing the side effects of that.
Oh, and for the "I love my manual K lenses" crowd? Ever tried it on an A7 series with a Fotodiox Pro Pronto AF adapter?

reh321 · 09-11-2018, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by keos

21 pages and I can't believe nobody mentioned this.

Pentax needs to find a way to convince 3rd part lens makers to continue making lenses for its system. Sigma has all but stopped making any new lenses for Pentax. the 50-100 1.8 Art would be great on the system with body SR making it a much more versatile lens than on a Canon or Nikon, but alas after talking with a Sigma rep that will never come to fruition. And when was the last Tamron lens for Pentax made? (yes, I know some of the newer lenses are Tamron designs. not what I meant)

The best way to convince Sigma or Tamron to provide more K-mount lenses is for us to purchase more K-mount lenses. I have two Sigma K-mount lenses. I have several Tamron K-mount lenses, but I don't think AdaptAll would impress them very much these days.

keos · 09-11-2018, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by reh321

The best way to convince Sigma or Tamron to provide more K-mount lenses is for us to purchase more K-mount lenses. I have two Sigma K-mount lenses. I have several Tamron K-mount lenses, but I don't think AdaptAll would impress them very much these days.

yes, but if we have 1000 pentaxians buying 1 lens, that is more realistic than asking 1 pentaxian to buy 1000 lenses.
more people in the Pentax system makes it better for all of us.

normhead · 09-11-2018, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by Mark Ransom

Exactly! Pros will buy what pros need for the job. If video is only an occasional need, as a non-pro I don't want to get a separate device for it.

And there's absolutely no reason you should. Pentax's 1080p is the preferred format among consumers. The only pros I've talked to using 4k video, are not doing it for current use. They believe it will prevent their footage from becoming obsolete if and when storage devices can handle 4k video. Not for current use. And that is a gamble. 4k has been around long enough now, as pointed out in the video, we know only a fraction of a percent of consumers actually use it or prefer it.

So as a non-pro, what's your problem with Pentax video?

09-11-2018, 08:31 AM	#311
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Mark Ransom Exactly! Pros will buy what pros need for the job. If video is only an occasional need, as a non-pro I don't want to get a separate device for it. But you have to have 4k video. Video is an occasional need for me , and Pentax video has always done the job.I have no idea what you guys are talking about when you say Pentax doesn't do video. It does do video. You're defining some kind of articial line in the sand, where you don't need pro video, but Pentax video isn't good enough. Talk about nit picking. And the above video is really good. You have 8k pixels on your 4 k monitor, but you only have 6k cones in your eye. And most people still prefer 1080P for video. Who are these 4 k video freaks? The utility of 4 k TVs is their ability to upscale smaller formats for viewing from further away. When you see someone say, they need 4k video, well they are basically as far as anyone can tell are saying they want it, just because it's there. Unless they are like me and using it so they can walk up to a 55 inch diagonal image and look at it at 72 dpi, they aren't even using it. Last edited by normhead; 09-11-2018 at 09:26 AM.

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09-04-2018, 04:05 PM	#302
Mark Ransom Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 498	Originally posted by MarkJerling If we're going to have a touchscreen, it would be cool if it worked wirelessly with the body and was completely detachable like a little tablet. Then, of course, we'd lose the tablet and would need to buy a replacement. On second thought, maybe not! I think you just described a remote control app on a cell phone. You'd certainly be less likely to lose it.

09-04-2018, 04:08 PM	#303
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,406	Originally posted by Mark Ransom I think you just described a remote control app on a cell phone. You'd certainly be less likely to lose it. Very true. I think it could be quite handy if the whole rear display could be duplicated on a mobile phone screen, complete with access to the menus, etc. But, don't underestimate my ability to lose said device! (The amount of times I need to ring my mobile to find it.....)

09-04-2018, 04:30 PM	#304
aaacb Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,724	Originally posted by MarkJerling 'd much rather see a higher frame rate, bigger buffer and wickedly good AF I would like to see the same, as well as faster card writers. On a side note, better AF would also require lens development/updates and not just the camera, and that makes it even more expensive (for us buyers too ). Since I got the 55-300 plm, it's like my k3ii is a new camera when it comes to action, at least compared to the 60-250 which I had before and thought to be OK.

09-04-2018, 05:11 PM	#305
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by bigdavephoto What the Takker was asking is, why Pentax is NOT putting better video into the DSLR cameras. That may be what he wants to know, but that is not what he asks - he asks a very broad generic question. Pentax cameras are superb for stills photography, but they have certain lacks that would irritate a videographer. Most modern cameras evolved from stills-only cameras in the film era, a time when no one would ever think of doing stills and movies using the same camera. The simple fact is that Pentax largely retains that orientation; they have shown little interest in pushing video, so Pentax is not a good choice for someone who thinks of a camera as a video machine.

09-04-2018, 06:33 PM - 1 Like	#306
dubyam Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 221	I've said this many times, and it's as true now as the first time I said it, maybe 15yrs ago: If you want to take video, there are cameras which are designed to do that, and do it very well. They have better motion-accommodating focus, better compression algorithms for storage of files, and optical zoom which makes most of our zoom lenses feel small. If video is your thing, a camera designed to take video is your best tool. Beyond that, I'll also state, reciprocally, that the best still images don't, in my experience, come from cameras which are good at taking video. Sure, focus is excellent in a lot of these images (though it's not in some...) but depth of field and dimensionality are sorely lacking in most of the still pics I've seen from cameras which take good video. Mark Twain once famously said something along the lines of, If the only tool in your box is a hammer, all your problems will start to look like nails. If you want great still photos, with good image quality, high dynamic range, proper color rendition, good depth and texture, Pentax is a great option. If you want good video, buy something else. I own one of each, and use the right tool for the job.

09-11-2018, 03:29 AM - 2 Likes	#307
Lord Lucan Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: South Wales Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,961	For the difference in price between my K-1 and the equivalent Nikon or Canon that are supposed to be better at video, I could buy a damn good video camera. But that's only if I wanted to do video.

09-11-2018, 06:34 AM	#308
Mark Ransom Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 498	Originally posted by Lord Lucan For the difference in price between my K-1 and the equivalent Nikon or Canon that are supposed to be better at video, I could buy a damn good video camera. But that's only if I wanted to do video. Then you'd have to carry two cameras and ignore all the fine lenses you have for your DSLR.

09-11-2018, 07:45 AM	#309
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Mark Ransom Then you'd have to carry two cameras and ignore all the fine lenses you have for your DSLR. It's still a better solution. Even 4 k video is a fraction the resolution of a still camera, about 8 MP. You don't need a lens capable of resolving 24 MP or 36 MP for video. They are overkill and way more weight than you need. We are talking home video here. Every pro I've talked to or seen post has said cameras are not equivalent to dedicated video for professional work. Let's keep this in perspective.

09-11-2018, 08:08 AM	#310
Mark Ransom Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 498	Originally posted by normhead It's still a better solution. Even 4 k video is a fraction the resolution of a still camera, about 8 MP. You don't need a lens capable of resolving 24 MP or 36 MP for video. They are overkill and way more weight than you need. We are talking home video here. Every pro I've talked to or seen post has said cameras are not equivalent to dedicated video for professional work. Let's keep this in perspective. Exactly! Pros will buy what pros need for the job. If video is only an occasional need, as a non-pro I don't want to get a separate device for it.

09-11-2018, 09:15 AM	#312
keos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 108	21 pages and I can't believe nobody mentioned this. Pentax needs to find a way to convince 3rd part lens makers to continue making lenses for its system. Sigma has all but stopped making any new lenses for Pentax. the 50-100 1.8 Art would be great on the system with body SR making it a much more versatile lens than on a Canon or Nikon, but alas after talking with a Sigma rep that will never come to fruition. And when was the last Tamron lens for Pentax made? (yes, I know some of the newer lenses are Tamron designs. not what I meant) I don't think a camera maker will ever make a master of all camera; the A7III comes really close, but there are some things it does not do well. I think the question that should be asked is, what features can Ricoh incorporate/needs to incorporate that will make Pentax a viable choice in the consumer market without taking away the soul of Pentax cameras? Pentax cameras has some great advantages over other cameras at the same price point (and sometimes beyond). It still needs a healthy ecosystem. Pentax as a brand is in danger if for every 2 people that leaves only 1 comes in, and we're already seeing the side effects of that. Oh, and for the "I love my manual K lenses" crowd? Ever tried it on an A7 series with a Fotodiox Pro Pronto AF adapter?

09-11-2018, 09:20 AM	#313
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by keos 21 pages and I can't believe nobody mentioned this. Pentax needs to find a way to convince 3rd part lens makers to continue making lenses for its system. Sigma has all but stopped making any new lenses for Pentax. the 50-100 1.8 Art would be great on the system with body SR making it a much more versatile lens than on a Canon or Nikon, but alas after talking with a Sigma rep that will never come to fruition. And when was the last Tamron lens for Pentax made? (yes, I know some of the newer lenses are Tamron designs. not what I meant) The best way to convince Sigma or Tamron to provide more K-mount lenses is for us to purchase more K-mount lenses. I have two Sigma K-mount lenses. I have several Tamron K-mount lenses, but I don't think AdaptAll would impress them very much these days.

09-11-2018, 09:28 AM	#314
keos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 108	Originally posted by reh321 The best way to convince Sigma or Tamron to provide more K-mount lenses is for us to purchase more K-mount lenses. I have two Sigma K-mount lenses. I have several Tamron K-mount lenses, but I don't think AdaptAll would impress them very much these days. yes, but if we have 1000 pentaxians buying 1 lens, that is more realistic than asking 1 pentaxian to buy 1000 lenses. more people in the Pentax system makes it better for all of us.

09-11-2018, 09:30 AM	#315
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Mark Ransom Exactly! Pros will buy what pros need for the job. If video is only an occasional need, as a non-pro I don't want to get a separate device for it. And there's absolutely no reason you should. Pentax's 1080p is the preferred format among consumers. The only pros I've talked to using 4k video, are not doing it for current use. They believe it will prevent their footage from becoming obsolete if and when storage devices can handle 4k video. Not for current use. And that is a gamble. 4k has been around long enough now, as pointed out in the video, we know only a fraction of a percent of consumers actually use it or prefer it. So as a non-pro, what's your problem with Pentax video?