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08-23-2018, 06:56 AM - 3 Likes   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yuri Leo Quote
In fact, there are two different things. This photographer, who photographs with the help of what he has in his hands
And the owner of an expensive camera, which has no skills, no models, no direct hands, no brains) Unfortunately ...
I'd say the vast majority of people here are in that first group, Yuri. Some have basic equipment, others more advanced. Whatever works for them.

Those that have only very basic skills are still free to buy whatever equipment they like, including a Phase One medium format if they so wish. Good luck to them. At the very worst, they have equipment that they enjoy using. But over time, I'd guess most will develop some skills (especially since they've invested a lot of money in their equipment), and have a lot of enjoyment doing so.

As for models, not everyone likes shooting models. Not everyone lives near, or can easily travel, to beautiful destinations. Some folks make use of what they have near by for their photographic subjects. It's all good.

One great thing about this hobby of ours is that it's not some big competition to see who's the best photographer. We're all free to enjoy it as we see fit, and every single person's approach is equally valid

08-23-2018, 07:06 AM - 2 Likes   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yuri Leo Quote
I'm new here, guys, but I'm surprised by the fact that most forum members are sure that after buying expensive equipment, their photos will be better. That's funny. And very sad
I would certainly not say that most forum members think this way. Sure, on the tens of thousands members of PF you will surely find a few ones, some of them even being quite active and vocal. But this doesn't mean they speak for the majority and certainly not that you have to agree with them.

In the same way, you will find photographers of all levels and talents. Like in any other photopgraphy forum, you will find bad photographers to highly skilled and creative ones. Just follow the advice of the ones you like and try help the others (or just ignore them, but it's not as nice as helping). Being an old-timer doesn't necessarely mean being a good photographer. It all depends on what your aim for. Some people will try to improve and get involved deeply in their photography, other will be happy staying in auto mode, or not much more, all their lives. Again, this is not specific to Pentax users. If you're looking for them, you will have no trouble finding people using Canon or Nikon cameras with kit lenses and be quite happy with pictures not much better than a smartphone...

As for buying gear, for most people the question is really more "Why not ?" than "Why ?". I have plenty of stuff I don't really need (not only in photography!) but I still bought them anyway because "Why not ?". There's nothing wrong with it if someone can afford it... Photography gear isn't different than most other things you can buy. Should I sell my car because I could take the bus to go to work ? And what should I think of my neighbour who has a BMW while a cheap compact car would still bring him wherever he needs ? Should one stick with entry level photography gear even if he could afford higher end ones ? Unless being an adept of some kind of voluntary simplicity philosophy, there's no reason to stick with low end if could afford better. And there's no reason to care about the reasons making other people buy the gear they bought.

---------- Post added 08-23-18 at 10:22 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
As for models, not everyone likes shooting models. Not everyone lives near, or can easily travel, to beautiful destinations. Some folks make use of what they have near by for their photographic subjects. It's all good.
I would even dare to say that most people, even professionnals, couldn't care less about shooting models... It's kind of a niche and certainly not some kind of photographic nirvana to attain. People, and particularly hobbyists, just do what please them, with models or not... And that's perfectly fine like this.

Last edited by CarlJF; 08-23-2018 at 07:27 AM.
08-23-2018, 07:34 AM   #33
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Skills are there. Technology can only make your work easier. But composition and imagination to reach the desired outcome comes from within, not from your equipment.
08-23-2018, 07:41 AM - 2 Likes   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yuri Leo Quote
And I'm not saying that I'm always right, but the fact remains: even the old-timers of the forum have very weak photos and this surprised me a bit.
Guess I'm wondering what you mean by "very weak photos" I see exceptional photos (to me) posted here everyday. I know many of the "old-timers" talent, and look for their posts because I know I'm going to see some wonderful images!

08-23-2018, 07:52 AM - 4 Likes   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
One great thing about this hobby of ours is that it's not some big competition to see who's the best photographer. We're all free to enjoy it as we see fit, and every single person's approach is equally valid
Well said! One important factor to this forum is that the majority of members don't care what equipment others have, nor do they think the "old-timer's photos are very weak"! We simply enjoy seeing other's images.

It seems that the person that started this thread feels that this site is below his expertise. This is sad, indeed.
08-23-2018, 08:34 AM - 4 Likes   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yuri Leo Quote
And I'm not saying that I'm always right, but the fact remains: even the old-timers of the forum have very weak photos and this surprised me a bit.
QuoteQuote:
Just to not work on skills and not to recognize the fact that not everyone who has a SLR has the right to be called a photographer
I don't understand the point of your posts.

I'm a old timer of sorts (over 4 years here), and I will be the first to say that my pictures aren't very good. In fact, you won't ever see me call myself a photographer.

Is your point that I should quit this forum, in your opinion? Or that I should quit photography? I don't understand what you are trying to say, you might or might not realize this, but just saying "everyone in this forum sucks at photography" which is basically what you are doing, ends up making you look like a troll.

If you have specific things to say about people's pictures, we have a Photo Critique sub-forum where you can point out what people are doing wrong and hopefully help someone get better. Otherwise, why troll?

Also, since you are not English speaking, you probably don't know that calling people "Bro" can be seen as unpolite, if you don't know them.
08-23-2018, 09:08 AM - 3 Likes   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by dubyam Quote
Since the comment is frequently made here that skills are more important than gear, and folks are daily posting questions about technique and asking for critique of their photos, I'd suggest your original comment isn't factual. Further, your succeeding comments come off as insulting and condescending. Perhaps you don't realize that, or perhaps you do. But your generalizations about forum members are false, and your disdain for their attempts at photography comes across as conceited and rude.

Most of us are just regular folks with cameras trying to learn to be better. Most don't have new cameras, nor do most have K-1 full frame bodies. Most don't have $1000 lenses. And yet there are some pretty spectacular pictures posted on this site, along with some others seeking critique, or perhaps just showing an improvement from prior efforts. Understanding other folks are at different points along the skill continuum and learning curve should be a skill any professional photographer has. I suspect your first pictures were not like the ones you post for public view now, were they?

I completely agree! I'm sorry Yuri but what gives you the right to judge. Many of the pictures on here are posted purely because the photographer likes them, they are not here to be measured! You don't know the poster nor do you know why they created the photo in the chosen style!
08-23-2018, 09:14 AM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tomas Perminas Quote
Oh, you met tech geeks, not photographers They're in every forum no matter what's the topic, so don't worry.
For me K20D is the best Pentax camera there is today and I'm looking for my new purchase - K10D with it's CCD magic!
I think you'll quite enjoy it.

I sold my K20D to get the K10D and don't regret it, even if it feels quite a bit older despite being just one generation behind.

Having a K-S1 for family/low light pictures is a luxury for me, if I had only the K10D I could make it work (having fast primes allows for that). I used nothing but the K20D for two years for all my photography and I never used ISO above 640 - and it was fine. If it was dark and indoors I just used a flash!

08-23-2018, 09:15 AM - 4 Likes   #39
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08-23-2018, 09:17 AM - 7 Likes   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yuri Leo Quote
I'm new here, guys, but I'm surprised by the fact that most forum members are sure that after buying expensive equipment, their photos will be better. That's funny. And very sad
In fact, technically speaking, with better equipment the photos are better.

Funny is you come here to criticize others for enjoying photography the way they like.

Sad is, even if you make "better" photos, that doesn't make you a better artist or a better human being.
08-23-2018, 09:21 AM - 2 Likes   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
I don't understand the point of your posts.

I'm a old timer of sorts (over 4 years here), and I will be the first to say that my pictures aren't very good. In fact, you won't ever see me call myself a photographer.

Is your point that I should quit this forum, in your opinion? Or that I should quit photography? I don't understand what you are trying to say, you might or might not realize this, but just saying "everyone in this forum sucks at photography" which is basically what you are doing, ends up making you look like a troll.

If you have specific things to say about people's pictures, we have a Photo Critique sub-forum where you can point out what people are doing wrong and hopefully help someone get better. Otherwise, why troll?

Also, since you are not English speaking, you probably don't know that calling people "Bro" can be seen as unpolite, if you don't know them.
I totally agree with this too. Equipment can improve a photograph! A limited lens will provide sharper results than a crappy old sigma! That however isn't the point. Most PHOTOGRAPHERS here (that includes you CR ) are more interested in technique than tech! We all have our own style and our own favourites! Whether or not you are a more skilled photographer Yuri is utterly irellevant. If you want to judge people, fine! Go for it! But don't be surprised if people reciprocate! We are a Pentax COMMUNITY and as such we support one another and don't take kindly to posts like yours. Whilst there is a possibility the intended tone of your message may have been lost in translation, I suspect the message is loud and clear. One final point, don't say "bro"! People who use that term are quite often idiots and one thing I don't think you are is an idiot! You have a lot to offer this forum, but your style of posts in this example isn't the way to do it!

---------- Post added 08-23-18 at 09:23 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by krre23 Quote
In fact, technically speaking, with better equipment the photos are better.

Funny is you come here to criticize others for enjoying photography the way they like.

Sad is, even if you make "better" photos, that doesn't make you a better artist or a better human being.
Absolutely spot on.
08-23-2018, 09:30 AM - 1 Like   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yuri Leo Quote
I'm new here, guys, but I'm surprised by the fact that most forum members are sure that after buying expensive equipment, their photos will be better. That's funny. And very sad
For some of us it happens to be true. Some people think a tiny dynamic range image shot through a coke bottle lens is the epitome of quality. Some don't agree with this assessment and strive for the best technical quality they can get to compliment their skills as a photographer.
08-23-2018, 09:36 AM - 2 Likes   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yuri Leo Quote
Yes, man, I looked at the galleries of some K-1 owners, it's a shame, in most cases.
Wow! Is it your goal to disrespect all other members here? A pompous attitude does not go well in our friendly, family forum! What gives you the right to judge anyone else's images? If a member doesn't like a photo, they are welcome to skip over it. With your air of superiority, this site will continue to be a disappointment to you; as it seems anyone else's photos are "weak".

Last edited by csa; 08-23-2018 at 09:41 AM.
08-23-2018, 09:41 AM   #44
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Tools serve skills. 'It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools.'

Improving skills will reveal the limitations of your tools, or provide new output with old or "inferior" tools. We all know of artists, musicians, craftspeople who can produce output far surpassing our own with the equivalent of finger paints, toy pianos and construction paper.

If you're doing it right, you're learning. If you need better tools to accomplish your goals, you obtain them or figure something else out. I'm still using the FA100 f2.8 macro I bought 10 years ago. The brain behind it has learned a lot in those years.
08-23-2018, 09:54 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cerebum Quote
I totally agree with this too. Equipment can improve a photograph! A limited lens will provide sharper results than a crappy old sigma! That however isn't the point. Most PHOTOGRAPHERS here (that includes you CR ) are more interested in technique than tech! We all have our own style and our own favourites! Whether or not you are a more skilled photographer Yuri is utterly irellevant. If you want to judge people, fine! Go for it! But don't be surprised if people reciprocate! We are a Pentax COMMUNITY and as such we support one another and don't take kindly to posts like yours. Whilst there is a possibility the intended tone of your message may have been lost in translation, I suspect the message is loud and clear. One final point, don't say "bro"! People who use that term are quite often idiots and one thing I don't think you are is an idiot! You have a lot to offer this forum, but your style of posts in this example isn't the way to do it!

---------- Post added 08-23-18 at 09:23 AM ----------



Absolutely spot on.
Ok

---------- Post added 08-23-18 at 10:08 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by CarlJF Quote
I would certainly not say that most forum members think this way. Sure, on the tens of thousands members of PF you will surely find a few ones, some of them even being quite active and vocal. But this doesn't mean they speak for the majority and certainly not that you have to agree with them.

In the same way, you will find photographers of all levels and talents. Like in any other photopgraphy forum, you will find bad photographers to highly skilled and creative ones. Just follow the advice of the ones you like and try help the others (or just ignore them, but it's not as nice as helping). Being an old-timer doesn't necessarely mean being a good photographer. It all depends on what your aim for. Some people will try to improve and get involved deeply in their photography, other will be happy staying in auto mode, or not much more, all their lives. Again, this is not specific to Pentax users. If you're looking for them, you will have no trouble finding people using Canon or Nikon cameras with kit lenses and be quite happy with pictures not much better than a smartphone...

As for buying gear, for most people the question is really more "Why not ?" than "Why ?". I have plenty of stuff I don't really need (not only in photography!) but I still bought them anyway because "Why not ?". There's nothing wrong with it if someone can afford it... Photography gear isn't different than most other things you can buy. Should I sell my car because I could take the bus to go to work ? And what should I think of my neighbour who has a BMW while a cheap compact car would still bring him wherever he needs ? Should one stick with entry level photography gear even if he could afford higher end ones ? Unless being an adept of some kind of voluntary simplicity philosophy, there's no reason to stick with low end if could afford better. And there's no reason to care about the reasons making other people buy the gear they bought.

---------- Post added 08-23-18 at 10:22 AM ----------


I would even dare to say that most people, even professionnals, couldn't care less about shooting models... It's kind of a niche and certainly not some kind of photographic nirvana to attain. People, and particularly hobbyists, just do what please them, with models or not... And that's perfectly fine like this.
I just said that I'm thinking about marketing tricks and their victims. And I'm not going to give up my opinion. The cost of equipment some local champions equals the budget of Liberia.

Last edited by BigMackCam; 08-23-2018 at 10:30 AM. Reason: Removed inflammatory remarks - PLEASE DO NOT RE-EDIT
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