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10-11-2018, 06:07 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
I think many people have a desire for the new, cool thing. It's cool because it's interesting, it has new features, it's innovative. That's fine.
Those people should have absolutely no interest in Pentax. Same as people, there's cool, there's solid and there's all the flakes who want to be cool or solid.It's fine to want such things. It's not fine to expect those things from Pentax. Personally I think Pixel shift is really cool and really functional. That's the kind of cool thing I'm looking for. All those features people need because they don't know how to use a camera they may be cool but they are un-necessary. I just want my camera to give me then best images for my style of shooting. Canons with their lack of Dynamic Range, Sony with their lack of toughness, Nikon with their lack of image stabilization, IMHO, they aren't where they need to be, cool or not, isn't a factor.


Last edited by normhead; 10-11-2018 at 06:48 AM.
10-11-2018, 06:25 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
I think many people have a desire for the new, cool thing. It's cool because it's interesting, it has new features, it's innovative. That's fine.

But I think much of the hand-wringing about Pentax/Ricoh is that they're a very small player in the camera landscape and if they aren't innovating and giving people a reason to buy their new, cool stuff there's the creeping suspicion that they won't be a viable business for much longer. And then even most people who stick with their camera for years and years will eventually have to switch systems.
I switched twice -

1995 from Pentax to Canon because of the EF/USM lenses

2015 from Canon to Pentax because of bodies.

It's not fun, but its not the end of the world {and I can still use my Pentax Super Program with every lens I own}.

People need to worry more about photos they can take today than about what they will be using next year.
10-11-2018, 06:53 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
But I think much of the hand-wringing about Pentax/Ricoh is that they're a very small player in the camera landscape and if they aren't innovating and giving people a reason to buy their new, cool stuff there's the creeping suspicion that they won't be a viable business for much longer. And then even most people who stick with their camera for years and years will eventually have to switch systems.
And there are those of us who think such people need to see a shrink. The "safety in being in the middle of the herd" mentality has never been a universal mental condition among humans. Some of us like striking out on our own with minimalist kit. Herd mentality does provide safety, until the whole herd goes off a cliff.
10-11-2018, 06:59 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Those people should have absolutely no interest in Pentax. Same as people, there's cool, there's solid and there's all the flakes who want to be cool or solid.It's fine to want such things. It's not fine to expect those things from Pentax. Personally I think Pixel shift is really cool and really functional. That's the kind of cool thing I'm looking for. All those features people need because they don't know how to use a camera they may be cool but they are un-necessary. I just want my camera to give me then best images for my style of shooting. Canons with their lack of Dynamic Range, Sony with their lack of toughness, Nikon with their lack of image stabilization, IMHO, they aren't where they need to be, cool or not, isn't factor.
I have an interest in innovative, cool features like pixel shift, like hybrid viewfinders, like Astrotracer. I have an interest in Pentax, it's the only camera brand I shoot. I also see the value in mirrorless technology, and that it will probably supplant DSLRs' market supremacy in the near future if it hasn't already. Perhaps I shouldn't exist.

---------- Post added 10-11-18 at 10:13 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
And there are those of us who think such people need to see a shrink. The "safety in being in the middle of the herd" mentality has never been a universal mental condition among humans. Some of us like striking out on our own with minimalist kit. Herd mentality does provide safety, until the whole herd goes off a cliff.
Only crazy people have any concerns about Pentax' viability as a camera business? I kind of doubt that the 98% of the ILC market that chose a brand other than Pentax is dominated by mindless automatons. But I don't have any hard market research to back that up, so it's just idle speculation.

10-11-2018, 07:27 AM   #35
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QuoteQuote:
Only crazy people have any concerns about Pentax' viability as a camera business? I kind of doubt that the 98% of the ILC market that chose a brand other than Pentax is dominated by mindless automatons. But I don't have any hard market research to back that up, so it's just idle speculation.
I've been listening to Pentax is doomed for 10 years now. Lot's of people have come and gone proclaiming Pentax was a dead system with no future. Where are they now? No one knows. The thing is if you are constantly wrong year after year, eventually most people wise up. So simple fact, those people who claim Pentax is doomed are to date, 100% wrong. Completely divorced from reality. There are no signs pentax is even in trouble. They have a huge parent company that values what they bring to the table. They run their business in a manner that makes money for their owners. After 10 years of listening to all the negatives I'm ready to flat out state, "Those people don't have clue what they are talking about."

What's your definition of "sanity."
If repeating unfounded fears over and over again in public forums is sanity, then yes, those dudes are sane.
I tend to think of insanity as constantly promoting a reality that doesn't exist, as if it did.
If it exists in your head, and not anywhere else, you have issues. Get help.
If your interpretation of accepted facts doesn't and hasn't in the past led to the results predicted, maybe it's time to change your perspective to line up with reality.

I've had Nikon and Canon shooters giving me reasons why I should switch for 50 years now, and from my perspective, every one of them was full of nonsense. They knew what was good for them, not what was good for me.

The reality is Pentax just keeps plugging along with a steady, loyal group of shooters who appreciate what they do. One person's perspective of whether or not that's viable is worth nothing. It's a decision made by the user base, and the user base just keeps plugging along, year after year. Some people find reasons to switch to other brands, some people find reasons to switch from other brands. That part tends to cancel out. People need to understand , that just because Pentax doesn't work for them, says nothing about Pentax's viability in the future.

Last edited by normhead; 10-11-2018 at 07:40 AM.
10-11-2018, 07:29 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
People need to worry more about photos they can take today than about what they will be using next year.
Can't we do both? I've posted every day in Single in October, in addition to a little wishing for some more speed and innovation on Pentax' part.

---------- Post added 10-11-18 at 10:41 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I've been listening to Pentax is doomed for 10 years now. Lot's of people have come and gone proclaiming Pentax was a dead system with no future. Where are they now? No one knows. The thing is if you are constantly wrong year after year, eventually most people wise up. So simple fact, those people who claim Pentax is doomed are to date, 100% wrong. Completely divorced from reality. There are no signs pentax is even in trouble. They have a huge parent company that values what they bring to the table. They run their business in a manner that makes money for their owners. After 10 years of listening to all the negatives I'm ready to flat out state, "Those people don't have clue what they are talking about."

What's your definition of "sanity."
If repeating unfounded fears over and over again in public forums is sanity, then yes, those dudes are sane.
I tend to think of insanity as constantly promoting a reality that doesn't exist, as if it did.
If it exists indoor head, and not anywhere else, you have issues. Get help.
If your interpretation of accepted facts doesn't and hasn't in the past led to the results predicted, maybe it's time to change your perspective to line up with reality.

I've had Nikon and Canon shooters giving me reasons why I should switch for 50 years now, and from my perspective, every one of them was full of nonsense. They knew what was good for them, not what was good for me.

The reality is Pentax just keeps plugging along with a steady, loyal group of shooters who appreciate what they do. One person's perspective of whether or not that's viable is worth nothing.
One can have some concerns about the long-term direction of a company without being irrational. I've never said they were about to disappear, just that they are a niche player whose marketing strategy (or lack thereof) leaves many questions about the future unanswered. You have to read between the lines to get a halfway confirmation that they're going to release a new APS-C lens long on the roadmap sometime in the next year. Past performance doesn't guarantee future results.


I'm glad that you are absolutely certain that Pentax will continue to meet your needs for the foreseeable future. I hope they do the same for me.
10-11-2018, 08:01 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
I'm glad that you are absolutely certain that Pentax will continue to meet your needs for the foreseeable future. I hope they do the same for me.
Well, I hope you'll find your way to whatever meets your needs whether it's Pentax or not. Everyone needs the best tool for what they do. Pentax isn't the best for everyone, but according to the numbers maybe 2% to 4% of the time it will be.
10-11-2018, 08:14 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
I think many people have a desire for the new, cool thing. It's cool because it's interesting, it has new features, it's innovative. That's fine.
Wasn't this the target market for the K-S1?

10-11-2018, 09:32 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
long-term value
= lenses. This was always true and still is.

QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
constantly innovate on a product
= innovate software, hardware is a completely different story.
10-11-2018, 10:08 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
Can't we do both? I've posted every day in Single in October, in addition to a little wishing for some more speed and innovation on Pentax' part.
What kind of "speed" are you looking for?

What kind of "innovation" would improve your shooting experience?
10-11-2018, 10:31 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
What kind of "speed" are you looking for?

What kind of "innovation" would improve your shooting experience?
Smaller, lighter APS-C cameras and modern lenses released at more than one each per 18 months*. Better autofocus, better tracking. Histogram in the (maybe hybrid) viewfinder. Update of the limited primes with fast, silent autofocus motors and weather sealing. Better connectivity. Some of the KP and K-1 features like better high ISO performance in a higher-end APS-C body. Espresso maker. Bandsaw. Sensor-optical nerve coupling. Thought-driven focus points.

Quoting Sally from A Charlie Brown Christmas, "All I want is what is what I have coming to me. All I want is my fair share."

* KP released more than 18 months ago. When was the last APS-C lens?
10-11-2018, 10:54 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
Smaller, lighter APS-C cameras and modern lenses released at more than one each per 18 months*. Better autofocus, better tracking. Histogram in the (maybe hybrid) viewfinder. Update of the limited primes with fast, silent autofocus motors and weather sealing. Better connectivity. Some of the KP and K-1 features like better high ISO performance in a higher-end APS-C body. Espresso maker. Bandsaw. Sensor-optical nerve coupling. Thought-driven focus points.

Quoting Sally from A Charlie Brown Christmas, "All I want is what is what I have coming to me. All I want is my fair share."

* KP released more than 18 months ago. When was the last APS-C lens?
.
.
I recently sold my K-70 camera. I liked it a lot. I replaced it with a used Fuji X-T2 for only $150 more than I sold the K-70 for. The Fuji X-T2 is an incredible camera, and I like it so much better than the K-70. The only thing I miss is the K-70's Pixel Shift feature, but there are MANY MANY features that the X-T2 has that the K-70 doesn't.

Fuji has just released their new X-T3 camera. This newest version has even better auto-focus, sensor, and 4K video than the X-T2.

I've also owned a Pentax K5II, K3, K3II (two copies). The X-T2 is a much better camera than any of these. And now Fuji just came out with the X-T3. Those of you making excuses for Pentax's slow development of new cameras are just rationalizing Pentax's lack of R&D and resources compared with other camera manufacturers. For my APS-C needs, I'm glad that I switched to a company that regularly updates their bodies (and firmware) with the latest technology, and seemingly every few months is coming out with a new lens. What's wrong with regularly releasing new gear with the latest and greatest technology? I think that's a good thing.

Now, full frame is another matter entirely. I still own a Pentax K-1 camera, and am very happy with it. Except for auto-focus and video, I still firmly believe that the K-1 is an outstanding full frame digital camera at a comparatively rock bottom price.
10-11-2018, 11:14 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
I recently sold my K-70 camera. I liked it a lot. I replaced it with a used Fuji X-T2
...
I've also owned a Pentax K5II, K3, K3II (two copies). The X-T2 is a much better camera than any of these.
...
Those of you making excuses for Pentax's slow development of new cameras are just rationalizing Pentax's lack of R&D and resources compared with other camera manufacturers.
I'm glad you like your X-T2, Dave

I suspect you're going to get some robust replies, but I'm sure you expected that when posting. Still, hold on to your hat

I can't speak for anyone else, but here are my thoughts:

I own a K-5, K-3 and K-3II, as well as some older Pentax/Samsung cameras and Sony A & E mount bodies. Of these, my K-3 and old Samsung GX-10 are my most used cameras. The GX-10 doesn't really count in this conversation, so I'll focus on the K-3...

I was amazed by the K-3 when I first bought it years ago, and I remain as happy with it today. I don't really care whether other cameras are better, just as good or worse, because I have no intention of switching from my K-3 until it dies and is uneconomical to repair. At that point, my K-3II will become my main camera, and some time down the line I'll think about another Pentax APS-C camera as a backup (and future main) body depending on what's available in the new and used markets. If I can find a very low shutter count K-3 or K-3II, I'll probably get one of those as prices will be very attractive by then. But perhaps I'll look at the K-3II replacement.

Either way, I'll be staying with Pentax. It's not a loyalty thing... The K-3 has become an extension of my hands by now, and is second nature for me to use - I just don't have to think about what I'm doing. More than that, I have a bunch of APS-C lenses that I absolutely love, including the HD DA Limiteds, D FA100 WR, DA*60-250 plus a wide range of other primes and zooms. I don't doubt that I could replace those with equivalent glass for any other system, but I just don't see the need to go through that exercise. I'm used to shooting with the glass I have, and I like the results. So, sticking with Pentax makes sense for me.

Regarding excuses...

I'm not making any excuses for Ricoh Imaging's slow development of new products. It is what it is. I'd like to see the development moving faster, but I don't actually need it to. Pentax is a small concern compared to the bigger manufacturers, and Ricoh is clearly being very careful about what it spends. That works just fine for me, as I don't need the latest whizz bang performance and features. They wouldn't improve my photography considerably, if at all. I could use better high ISO performance, for sure - and I wouldn't say no to better AF.C tracking, although it's honestly not a deal-breaker for me. So I'm pretty well catered for. I guess my photography isn't as demanding as yours... If it was, perhaps I'd feel held back by the K-3 and K-3II, but I truly don't. So, I can wait for the replacement... And in the unlikely event that it doesn't arrive, or is too expensive for my budget, I'll just keep using what I have

Last edited by BigMackCam; 10-11-2018 at 01:16 PM.
10-11-2018, 11:39 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
Wasn't this the target market for the K-S1?
Besides all the lights was anything on the K-S1 innovative? When I say "cool" I mean "cool technical stuff" more than anything else. I'm not saying cool in the line up with 1000 hipsters at midnight at the Apple store way.
10-11-2018, 12:12 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I'm guessing that they are saving some of the best things for the 100 year anniversary...
More than likely this is going to be the case.
QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
I am guessing they don't have new AF yet so there is no point in bringing out a new camera.
If they release something next year, I hope that the AF performance will have taken a major leap forward. It's been a while since the release of the K-3II. I'm pretty sure that they haven't been sitting around & goofing off for the past few years. Hahaha!
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