Been mighty quiet around here, aside from the GR...

reh321 · 10-11-2018, 12:29 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by ThorSanchez

Smaller, lighter APS-C cameras and modern lenses released at more than one each per 18 months*. Better autofocus, better tracking. Histogram in the (maybe hybrid) viewfinder. Update of the limited primes with fast, silent autofocus motors and weather sealing. Better connectivity. Some of the KP and K-1 features like better high ISO performance in a higher-end APS-C body. Espresso maker. Bandsaw. Sensor-optical nerve coupling. Thought-driven focus points.

Quoting Sally from A Charlie Brown Christmas, "All I want is what is what I have coming to me. All I want is my fair share."

* KP released more than 18 months ago. When was the last APS-C lens?

My interest is in a camera that takes photos when I press the button. I don't want to spend $1000 more than every four years, so what is the point of having body upgrades any more frequently than that? The 55-300 PLM lens sounds like a real winner, so I'll purchase one as soon as I have a camera that can use it. I might like an 18-135 KAF4 better than the KAF2 version I already have, but otherwise I have no need for them to churn out new lens after new lens after new lens. What ever happened to the "glass is forever" crowd?

**ThorSanchez** · 10-11-2018, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by reh321

What ever happened to the "glass is forever" crowd?

When your sensor was 35mm film that didn't really change in decades I think that was more true than the last 15 years when we've gone from 4-6 MP sensors to 16, 24, 36, 50+.

I'd also like modern features in my lenses like weather sealing and fast/silent focus motors. I love my DA15 LTD, but I'd love it a lot more if it was WR. The only reason I have a 16-85 or 20-40 on my wish list is that my 15/40 limiteds can't really go out in the rain.

One of the major disconnects in the Pentax line is the rugged, sealed bodies that go very well with the beautiful but completely unsealed small limited primes.

**RobA_Oz** · 10-11-2018, 01:35 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by ThorSanchez

... I wouldn't totally put it past someone. Car companies have embraced leasing and now BMW/Audi/Merc do premium subscription models where for the low, low price of $1500 a month you have all maintenance and insurance covered and you can trade your car in for another every few weeks if you want.

I wonder how many would pay $200 a month for access to any current Pentax camera/lens and you can trade it for different one(s) every month. I bet the companies have already started modeling this, determining how it might work.

That modelling would probably reveal ownership periods for the majority of users that would deter such a scheme being applied to any but the high-end users, who already use “leasing” (longer-term loans with residuals) for their equipment acquisition (which is what makes prestige motorcar owners the target for the rental schemes you describe).

With dedicated cameras, the shrinkage of the market due to the ubiquity of phone cameras is another factor that would deter the proposition of mass rental. Non-professionals who purchase camera equipment outright do so because the cost is either insignificant or something they’re otherwise able to bear, and many are collectors anyway.

I think software is a slightly different case. Aside from MS Office, whose value proposition peaked ten years ago for the majority of users, higher-cost applications like Adobe’s CS package have been providing more useful features with each upgrade, but even those are now slowing down. Adobe realised that its users were more technologically advanced than the average Office user, and moved to the rental scheme before its value proposition peaked. Being a CS5 user, I couldn’t see much value in moving to CS6 at the asking price (even with the education discount), but the rental pricing scheme makes it look attractive for the first few years of use. After that, renters would probably (and quite reasonably) ask just what it is that they continue to pay for. We’re just enjoying a Royal Commission in Australia, where banking and finance customers are asking the same sort of question.

Paul the Sunman · 10-11-2018, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by ThorSanchez

One of the major disconnects in the Pentax line is the rugged, sealed bodies that go very well with the beautiful but completely unsealed small limited primes.

Indeed. Apart from the DA 20-40 Ltd a few years ago, Pentax seems happy to just sit on the DA and FA Limited lines and concentrate on big heavy glass with the best possible optics. I guess their market research says that's the way to go, but I hope eventually the Limiteds will be updated. A project for the Centenary Year?

jddwoods · 10-11-2018, 01:53 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by reh321

My interest is in a camera that takes photos when I press the button. I don't want to spend $1000 more than every four years

I agree! there is nothing wrong or terribly obsolete with my K-3 so I can definitely hold off on dropping $1,000 + just to have the latest and greatest. FYI, the PLM is a really nice lens. Once I got it and started using it on my K-3 it felt like a huge upgrade.

**monochrome** · 10-11-2018, 04:51 PM

Some might think I’m a gearhead and they’re partly right. I do buy a lot of legacy gear, for the fun of it, but the only new* digital bodies I’ve bought are K10D, K-01, K-3** and K-1. In each case I thought the new features were interesting or would let me do things I couldn’t do with my existing gear. I think it’s interesting that each new camera was a sensor upgrade rather than exclusiively a features upgrade.

Lenses are a different calculus. Lenses last essentially forever. Upgrading from SMC to HD seemed silly, for instance. Sometimes a new lens is a real advance, like the *70~200 or *50/1.4 or fills a real need like the 28~105. I often sell something to buy something. It makes more sense that way.

* I would have skipped KP after buying K-1 (I had intended to fully embrace FF) but a member offered me a package price with an FA*300/4.5 that fomented an impulse purchase. Now I can’t let go of it, like the K-01.

** K-3 was a gift.

photoptimist · 10-11-2018, 04:54 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by BigMackCam

I have a fine old Tokina RMC 28/2.8 here that I've not used in ages... I could put that up for give-away, if you think it'll generate the same interest as the K-1 / K-1II... ?

"No", you say? Well, I tried...

We're just waiting for the good stuff. I'm sure you have a spare Zenit (or five) that was carefully cleaned in vodka. You could give it away for the upcoming Zenit K-mount.

10-11-2018, 04:51 PM	#51
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Some might think I’m a gearhead and they’re partly right. I do buy a lot of legacy gear, for the fun of it, but the only new* digital bodies I’ve bought are K10D, K-01, K-3** and K-1. In each case I thought the new features were interesting or would let me do things I couldn’t do with my existing gear. I think it’s interesting that each new camera was a sensor upgrade rather than exclusiively a features upgrade. Lenses are a different calculus. Lenses last essentially forever. Upgrading from SMC to HD seemed silly, for instance. Sometimes a new lens is a real advance, like the 70~200 or 50/1.4 or fills a real need like the 28~105. I often sell something to buy something. It makes more sense that way. * I would have skipped KP after buying K-1 (I had intended to fully embrace FF) but a member offered me a package price with an FA300/4.5 that fomented an impulse purchase. Now I can’t let go of it, like the K-01. * K-3 was a gift. Last edited by monochrome; 10-11-2018 at 04:57 PM.

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10-11-2018, 12:29 PM - 1 Like	#46
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,185	Originally posted by ThorSanchez Smaller, lighter APS-C cameras and modern lenses released at more than one each per 18 months. Better autofocus, better tracking. Histogram in the (maybe hybrid) viewfinder. Update of the limited primes with fast, silent autofocus motors and weather sealing. Better connectivity. Some of the KP and K-1 features like better high ISO performance in a higher-end APS-C body. Espresso maker. Bandsaw. Sensor-optical nerve coupling. Thought-driven focus points. Quoting Sally from A Charlie Brown Christmas, "All I want is what is what I have coming to me. All I want is my fair share." KP released more than 18 months ago. When was the last APS-C lens? My interest is in a camera that takes photos when I press the button. I don't want to spend $1000 more than every four years, so what is the point of having body upgrades any more frequently than that? The 55-300 PLM lens sounds like a real winner, so I'll purchase one as soon as I have a camera that can use it. I might like an 18-135 KAF4 better than the KAF2 version I already have, but otherwise I have no need for them to churn out new lens after new lens after new lens. What ever happened to the "glass is forever" crowd?

10-11-2018, 01:23 PM	#47
ThorSanchez Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,807	Originally posted by reh321 What ever happened to the "glass is forever" crowd? When your sensor was 35mm film that didn't really change in decades I think that was more true than the last 15 years when we've gone from 4-6 MP sensors to 16, 24, 36, 50+. I'd also like modern features in my lenses like weather sealing and fast/silent focus motors. I love my DA15 LTD, but I'd love it a lot more if it was WR. The only reason I have a 16-85 or 20-40 on my wish list is that my 15/40 limiteds can't really go out in the rain. One of the major disconnects in the Pentax line is the rugged, sealed bodies that go very well with the beautiful but completely unsealed small limited primes.

10-11-2018, 01:35 PM - 1 Like	#48
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,209	Originally posted by ThorSanchez ... I wouldn't totally put it past someone. Car companies have embraced leasing and now BMW/Audi/Merc do premium subscription models where for the low, low price of $1500 a month you have all maintenance and insurance covered and you can trade your car in for another every few weeks if you want. I wonder how many would pay $200 a month for access to any current Pentax camera/lens and you can trade it for different one(s) every month. I bet the companies have already started modeling this, determining how it might work. That modelling would probably reveal ownership periods for the majority of users that would deter such a scheme being applied to any but the high-end users, who already use “leasing” (longer-term loans with residuals) for their equipment acquisition (which is what makes prestige motorcar owners the target for the rental schemes you describe). With dedicated cameras, the shrinkage of the market due to the ubiquity of phone cameras is another factor that would deter the proposition of mass rental. Non-professionals who purchase camera equipment outright do so because the cost is either insignificant or something they’re otherwise able to bear, and many are collectors anyway. I think software is a slightly different case. Aside from MS Office, whose value proposition peaked ten years ago for the majority of users, higher-cost applications like Adobe’s CS package have been providing more useful features with each upgrade, but even those are now slowing down. Adobe realised that its users were more technologically advanced than the average Office user, and moved to the rental scheme before its value proposition peaked. Being a CS5 user, I couldn’t see much value in moving to CS6 at the asking price (even with the education discount), but the rental pricing scheme makes it look attractive for the first few years of use. After that, renters would probably (and quite reasonably) ask just what it is that they continue to pay for. We’re just enjoying a Royal Commission in Australia, where banking and finance customers are asking the same sort of question.

10-11-2018, 01:51 PM	#49
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,847	Originally posted by ThorSanchez One of the major disconnects in the Pentax line is the rugged, sealed bodies that go very well with the beautiful but completely unsealed small limited primes. Indeed. Apart from the DA 20-40 Ltd a few years ago, Pentax seems happy to just sit on the DA and FA Limited lines and concentrate on big heavy glass with the best possible optics. I guess their market research says that's the way to go, but I hope eventually the Limiteds will be updated. A project for the Centenary Year?

10-11-2018, 01:53 PM - 1 Like	#50
jddwoods Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Newark, Delaware Posts: 1,035	Originally posted by reh321 My interest is in a camera that takes photos when I press the button. I don't want to spend $1000 more than every four years I agree! there is nothing wrong or terribly obsolete with my K-3 so I can definitely hold off on dropping $1,000 + just to have the latest and greatest. FYI, the PLM is a really nice lens. Once I got it and started using it on my K-3 it felt like a huge upgrade.

10-11-2018, 04:54 PM - 1 Like	#52
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,128	Originally posted by BigMackCam I have a fine old Tokina RMC 28/2.8 here that I've not used in ages... I could put that up for give-away, if you think it'll generate the same interest as the K-1 / K-1II... ? "No", you say? Well, I tried... We're just waiting for the good stuff. I'm sure you have a spare Zenit (or five) that was carefully cleaned in vodka. You could give it away for the upcoming Zenit K-mount.