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09-23-2008, 08:47 PM   #1
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K2K: Very Necessary.

I've seen a lot of disappointed or sad views about the K2000 (K2K).

Let's think about this a little bit: the people on this forums site are the people who really care about the Pentax stuff, and who want to see the best from Pentax. The people who will be buying the K2K are the people who want to get into photography for dirt cheap. Likeliness is that many of the buyers won't do their research before buying. They'll click "order price>lowest first" on Best Buy's page and go for it.

The camera will get people into Pentax. No doubt. I was actually lured into Pentax by the *ist DL. $430 for a camera and lens! By gum, I took it! And of course, I've been here ever since. My guess is, that's exactly what Pentax wants. Get 3fps and DSLR image quality for sub-$600 prices. And 10 megapixels! It looks best compared to the competition.

As for competition: IMHO, no chance. If people actually do a tiny bit of research, they will find that the Pentax K2K kit is by far the best option for starters. (And no, I'm not always biased). As long as Circuit City and Best Buy start to carry it, Pentax will be sitting in golden chairs and driving cars made of rubies.

Agree? Disagree?

09-23-2008, 08:55 PM   #2
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I hopefully agree. The "IF" might be a big one. Circuit City and Best Buy and how about the US Walmarts that actually carry a few cameras?
09-23-2008, 09:25 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canada_Rockies Quote
I hopefully agree. The "IF" might be a big one. Circuit City and Best Buy and how about the US Walmarts that actually carry a few cameras?
Therein is the real conundrum. Cheap cameras make money for the same reason Big Macs make money.
They sell in huge numbers.
In order to sell in huge numbers, they have to get into big box retailers.
Does Pentax have:
A) The clout to get into Circuit City, Best Buy, Future Shop, etc at this point.
B) the ability to commit to and fulfill the volume expectations of big box retailers.

On the one hand, they are producing a lot of high end niche market lenses, but on the other, they more interested in producing cheap, mass market camera bodies than good, solid upper end niche market camera bodies.

It's like ordering a Fillet Mignon and then having it cooked well done and drowning it in Ketchup.
09-23-2008, 09:27 PM   #4
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Problem with the "sort by price" theory is that the D40 kit already goes for under $500 and the XTi kit goes for a bit over $500. Does the K2000 have enough to differentiate itself? What will be on the shelves come December? Will there be enough people who used to have K1000's who are drawn to the K2000 for that reason? Me, I'm optimistic. I don't like having more competition for the old lenses, but that just gives me more reason to buy a setup sooner rather than later. :-D Me, I don't think there will be golden chairs or bejeweled cars, but rather more, nicer lenses.

PS: I love the fact that Pentax announced a $700 camera kit and a $800 prime lens at the same time. Diminishing returns much? Of course, *that* is the lens I'm currently drooling over. Thankfully, my camera is weatherproofed.

09-23-2008, 09:57 PM   #5
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Sorry for off topic...

If name K2000 is too long for you, why don't you use the other name of the camera: K-m?

Naming it K2K is very misleading, I thought you're writing here about future high-end Pentax camera.
09-23-2008, 10:59 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
Naming it K2K is very misleading, I thought you're writing here about future high-end Pentax camera.
yep me too
09-23-2008, 11:40 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by JonPB Quote
Problem with the "sort by price" theory is that the D40 kit already goes for under $500 and the XTi kit goes for a bit over $500. Does the K2000 have enough to differentiate itself? What will be on the shelves come December?
See, when I first saw that the bundle contained a flash I thought it was madness. Now I think it might just be genius.

Imagine a clueless customer standing in front of piles of kits at a big store. The K2000 kit has more "stuff" in it - plain and simple.

I believe the press release said it's targeted to be on shelves in November.
09-24-2008, 03:09 AM   #8
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My local dealer (who is a 'Pentax Pro' dealer) is already taking advanced orders, but no price yet. The interesting bit is that they are offering it with a range of lenses from the 'new' kit lens through the 18-250mm to any of the DA Limiteds, which suggests a recognition that part of the market is for second bodies.

09-24-2008, 03:31 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
If name K2000 is too long for you, why don't you use the other name of the camera: K-m?

Naming it K2K is very misleading, I thought you're writing here about future high-end Pentax camera.
me too, but then I think about it why does that make me think of the future when it is 2008
09-24-2008, 04:59 AM   #10
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I agree with the OP and Wheatfield on this, I think the K-M or whatever it is (stupid to have 2 different model numbers) is a smart move. Cameras are the gateway to LBA. Cameras are low profit volume units. LBA is where the real money is.

Get someone on your brand and you might just have a lifetime customer. But the Filet Mignon and ketchup is so very true. They better have a K30D ready to show at PMA. Otherwise Pentax will loose top end users looking for more as you're gaining the entry level ones. A 4th body with all the things the advanced to Pro user wants.

Last edited by Peter Zack; 09-24-2008 at 06:47 AM.
09-24-2008, 05:12 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Does Pentax have:
A) The clout to get into Circuit City, Best Buy, Future Shop, etc at this point.
B) the ability to commit to and fulfill the volume expectations of big box retailers.
This isn't a question about Pentax but about Pentax U.S.A.
All big retail chains in Germany carry Pentax and quite visibly so. People perceive them as one of the big five. The K-m was definitely required to stay in European business.


According to http://www.pentax.co.jp/english/company/ir/semi/soa/info20071029.pdf (Hoya doesn't publish regional data about Pentax), sales figures have been as follows (in the year ending March 2007, in million Yen):
Japan: 56,025
U.S., Canada (): 39,735
Germany, U.K., France: 52,846
Hong Kong, Philippines, Vietnam, China, South Korea: 8,736
with Imaging about 50% of overall sales (probably much less in Japan and much more outside Japan).

With Europe sales 1.33 that of America sales, maybe the wholesale strategy indeed makes a difference?

Last edited by falconeye; 09-24-2008 at 06:00 AM.
09-24-2008, 05:14 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Big I Quote
If people actually do a tiny bit of research, they will find that the Pentax K2K kit is by far the best option for starters.

Agreed. However most consumers don't do any research beyond price point and what their mates use. (you know what I mean - your uncle's son uses Canon, so it makes sense that you buy that too!)
09-24-2008, 06:46 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Therein is the real conundrum. Cheap cameras make money for the same reason Big Macs make money.
They sell in huge numbers.
In order to sell in huge numbers, they have to get into big box retailers.
Does Pentax have:
A) The clout to get into Circuit City, Best Buy, Future Shop, etc at this point.
B) the ability to commit to and fulfill the volume expectations of big box retailers.

On the one hand, they are producing a lot of high end niche market lenses, but on the other, they more interested in producing cheap, mass market camera bodies than good, solid upper end niche market camera bodies.

It's like ordering a Fillet Mignon and then having it cooked well done and drowning it in Ketchup.
Not only that, but get *on the shelves* at places like CC.

CC carries Pentax gear, but it looks like only because they're somehow contractually bound to do so. They don't actually want to SELL any of it.

1) Not in B&M stores, online only
2) For months, the K20D was priced at $1900 when MSRP was $1300
3) Eventually it went on "sale" for MSRP with "normal" price of $1900. So you "save" $600+ according to Circuit City but still pay at least $200 more than from B&H or Amazon.

Unfortunately this means that someone that sees the Pentax K20D at Circuit City will just think "expensive massively overpriced camera for the features".

Knowing CC, the K2000 will be $1000 when everyone else is charging $500.
09-24-2008, 07:33 AM   #14
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Ditto on the comments about getting into Best Buy and Circuit City, and even Costco. In all these places, the beginner models sell well, but I've only seen the low end Canon/Nikon cameras on the shelves. I have no idea what Pentax USA is doing w/ these retailers but whatever they're doing now isn't working. If they can't get the K-m in these stores, that "sell lots of cheap bodies/kits" technique will be a stillborn in the US...

I'd love to see them succeed so this can fund development of more advanced gear, but this is the main reason I wasn't too excited about the K-m..."want" and "being able to execute" are two different things :-P
09-24-2008, 08:25 AM   #15
RaduA
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
This isn't a question about Pentax but about Pentax U.S.A.
All big retail chains in Germany carry Pentax and quite visibly so. People perceive them as one of the big five. The K-m was definitely required to stay in European business.


According to http://www.pentax.co.jp/english/company/ir/semi/soa/info20071029.pdf (Hoya doesn't publish regional data about Pentax), sales figures have been as follows (in the year ending March 2007, in million Yen):
Japan: 56,025
U.S., Canada (): 39,735
Germany, U.K., France: 52,846
Hong Kong, Philippines, Vietnam, China, South Korea: 8,736
with Imaging about 50% of overall sales (probably much less in Japan and much more outside Japan).

With Europe sales 1.33 that of America sales, maybe the wholesale strategy indeed makes a difference?
Falconeye,

As usual great post and great points! If the numbers for the Europe really reffers only to those 3 bigger countries there is no stretch to assume that combining the rest on 24 EU countries that market is twice the size of the US. And I only expect it to grow this year in volume and in ratio. The reason is pretty simple really. Unlike C, N and S who rip off the europeans and match 1 USD to 1 Euro regardless of the exchange rate Pentax has the same prices worldwide (excluding various taxes). So in fact Pentax has less perceived value in the US but is very competitive in the EU.

My 2 EUROcents,
Radu
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