The End of the DSLR?

Trickortreat · 11-05-2018, 11:59 PM

Originally posted by clackers

Yongnuo make lenses for the most popular mount in the world (Canon) but none for m43.

Oh.. well, that clears it up

**Rondec** · 11-06-2018, 03:42 AM

Originally posted by Trickortreat

Well, tbh, now that i think about it - the mount seems the best part to put an tripod mount. What boggles me is why m43 sensor and EF mount? Wouldnt it be more sensible to get the proper m43 mount? I think those EF lenses would just be an overkill. m43 are much smaller and better fit for that body.

Maybe they are just future-proofing their situation. The idea being that down the road they might want to go with an APS-C or even full frame sensor. If that's the case, then going with micro four thirds mount could paint them into a corner. Beyond which, as Clackers says, they have lenses for EF mount and not for micro four thirds.

**RGlasel** · 11-06-2018, 08:09 AM

I found an image of the front of a Yongnuo Frankencamera, as best as I can tell it has an EF adapter tacked onto a circuit board with an image sensor in the middle of it. In my opinion, it doesn't look like a working prototype, either (well, the lens is real, I'll acknowledge that). I would prefer to not have to link to DPReview, but that's where I found the image below.

By the way, the search for more info about the Frankencamera turned up the first real Android based MILC:

https://photorumors.com/2013/01/07/polaroid-im1836-the-first-android-based-m...-now-official/

Note the dateline: January 7, 2013. It's almost six years later and I'm pretty sure I've never seen one of these in the wild.

Trickortreat · 11-06-2018, 12:16 PM

That one never came to market, but this one did:
Samsung Galaxy NX - Wikipedia
Too bad samsung didnt continue that line. Imagine that one with all the computational goodies of todays android

**RGlasel** · 11-06-2018, 01:19 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Trickortreat

Too bad samsung didnt continue that line.

It takes a much higher sales volume to justify manufacturing a new camera line than to keep an existing product line in production, but the only conclusion that can be drawn from the Galaxy NX (and the entire NX system) is that sales were never high enough to justify Samsung's investment in it. I highly doubt a more powerful version of Android OS would have saved NX. Following WWII, there were all kinds of variation on camera design and more recently, we saw a number of different variations in the first 12 years of the 21st century. Compact digital cameras (fixed lens) were selling at a rate never before seen in the photographic industry and with a lag of only a couple of years, SLR sales followed suit. By 2013, compact camera sales were losing lots of ground to smartphones and DSLR sales were past their peak. Since then, the high disposable income portion of the DSLR market has been looking for something to keep spending money on, but the mass consumer market is gone, probably for good. That's only five years ago.

The remaining camera buyers have years and years of experience using SLRs (digital and film). They want to spend money on things that are different from what they already have, but not too different. Going to a 100% touchscreen interface is too different. Going to a size and form that is awkward to hold in two hands is too different. Going to a lens mount that doesn't allow for the use of already owned lenses is too different. MILC's in conventional forms aren't too different, but unless they transform the experience of taking photographs in a positive way, they are never going to displace SLRs completely and their owners will soon start looking for something else that isn't too different. The SLR has survived more than half a century of new variations on the theme of a camera, it's not going away anytime soon.

**clackers** · 11-06-2018, 09:58 PM

Sony and DxO both tried selling a combined 1" sensor and zoom lens that used your phone as the viewfinder and interface, with the logic that phones already rule photography and anybody who wants better pictures would buy their product.

Both were duds.

Trickortreat · 11-07-2018, 12:11 AM

Yeh, those were crap products. Too flimsy and awkward to use :/

Zygonyx · 11-07-2018, 01:42 PM

Please help me chop this off.

agp1337 · 11-08-2018, 06:50 AM

Just for information, there has been a slight change of plan about my Pentax gear. ALL of the KP/APSC stuff is going on Ebay, as is the body. The 15-30mm is still a beast, so that is the only K1 gear which is being sold (2 bids already!). WHY don't they make lighter lenses - say 15-30mm f4? The three lenses I will keep: 28-105, 200mm (f2.8 again!) and Irix 11mm (wonderful lens, though not automatic like the 15-30). The Irix is heavy too, but that is worth it for rare occasions.

Why the change of heart? To say goodbye I took out the K1 and 28-105 for some local shots i needed this morning. It was lovely using it, and the results are obviously good. I'd miss it! Still like the Fuji kit, though, and will be getting the K-T3 body in a couple of weeks. Several reviews call it the best APSC camera ever.

normhead · 11-08-2018, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by agp1337

Just for information, there has been a slight change of plan about my Pentax gear. ALL of the KP/APSC stuff is going on Ebay, as is the body. The 15-30mm is still a beast, so that is the only K1 gear which is being sold (2 bids already!). WHY don't they make lighter lenses - say 15-30mm f4? The three lenses I will keep: 28-105, 200mm (f2.8 again!) and Irix 11mm (wonderful lens, though not automatic like the 15-30). The Irix is heavy too, but that is worth it for rare occasions.

Why the change of heart? To say goodbye I took out the K1 and 28-105 for some local shots i needed this morning. It was lovely using it, and the results are obviously good. I'd miss it! Still like the Fuji kit, though, and will be getting the K-T3 body in a couple of weeks. Several reviews call it the best APSC camera ever.

Do you buy all the cameras that someone somewhere calls "the best APS-c camera ever?"
Just messing with you.

photoptimist · 11-08-2018, 07:55 AM - **1 Like**

What's funny is looking at the best seller list on Amazon.com shows how the click-bait doomsters are totally wrong about both the death of DSLRs and the death of compact P&S cameras. Four of the top ten best sellers are Canon Rebel T6 kits. No MILCs make the top 10. About two thirds of the top 50 are P&S, mostly compact ones with a few larger bridge cameras thrown in. In total, only 3 MILCs make it into the top-50 -- all Sony a7 models or kits coming in at #11, #13, and #45 on the list.

Despite all the hype about mirrorless and smart phones killing everything else, DSLRs and compacts continue to be the best-selling cameras. Apparently the people who actually buy cameras don't listen to the people who only shout about cameras.

SSGGeezer · 11-08-2018, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by agp1337

Just for information, there has been a slight change of plan about my Pentax gear. ALL of the KP/APSC stuff is going on Ebay, as is the body. The 15-30mm is still a beast, so that is the only K1 gear which is being sold (2 bids already!). WHY don't they make lighter lenses - say 15-30mm f4? The three lenses I will keep: 28-105, 200mm (f2.8 again!) and Irix 11mm (wonderful lens, though not automatic like the 15-30). The Irix is heavy too, but that is worth it for rare occasions.

Why the change of heart? To say goodbye I took out the K1 and 28-105 for some local shots i needed this morning. It was lovely using it, and the results are obviously good. I'd miss it! Still like the Fuji kit, though, and will be getting the K-T3 body in a couple of weeks. Several reviews call it the best APSC camera ever.

Why did you not post them for sale here and skip the fees?

Android is terrible on phones in my opinion and I can only imagine how bad it would be on a camera. I can imagine some serious horror when it tries to download Candy Crush on your camera!

agp1337 · 11-08-2018, 10:23 AM

There is a certain amount of protection with Ebay, @SSSGeezer. I could post them here as well, but then if it sold here I would have to end the Ebay auction, and I won't end them early. @Normhead, thanks for your comment. Its fine, I didn't take it personally. The Fuji X-T3 has a number of reviews saying the same thing. That wouldn't convince me on its own, but I already know how good the E3 is, i have lenses for the system and it would be a perfect complement. In addition, the video apparently is sensational.

SSGGeezer · 11-08-2018, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by agp1337

but I already know how good the E3 is, i have lenses for the system and it would be a perfect complement. In addition, the video apparently is sensational.

That is a good reason for change and the XT3 looks like a pretty amazing bit of kit. Buying and selling here has been nothing but great for me here. I think the approbation if you did someone wrong would mean you will never get your site supporter fees back from selling gear.

**Merv-O** · 12-03-2018, 10:10 AM

The KP with the small/pancake lenses is outstanding....small fast, modern, has much higher ceiling than most mirrorless cameras (certainly more than the RF mirrorless standard--Leica TL2 of CL auto twins from the Red Dot People)….I doubt SLR's are going anywhere for a long time, particularly given the cult status film has with a whole new generation of shooters.

11-06-2018, 08:09 AM	#213
RGlasel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Saskatoon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,228	I found an image of the front of a Yongnuo Frankencamera, as best as I can tell it has an EF adapter tacked onto a circuit board with an image sensor in the middle of it. In my opinion, it doesn't look like a working prototype, either (well, the lens is real, I'll acknowledge that). I would prefer to not have to link to DPReview, but that's where I found the image below. By the way, the search for more info about the Frankencamera turned up the first real Android based MILC: https://photorumors.com/2013/01/07/polaroid-im1836-the-first-android-based-m...-now-official/ Note the dateline: January 7, 2013. It's almost six years later and I'm pretty sure I've never seen one of these in the wild. Last edited by RGlasel; 11-06-2018 at 08:25 AM.

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11-05-2018, 11:59 PM	#211
Trickortreat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 561	Originally posted by clackers Yongnuo make lenses for the most popular mount in the world (Canon) but none for m43. Oh.. well, that clears it up

11-06-2018, 03:42 AM	#212
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by Trickortreat Well, tbh, now that i think about it - the mount seems the best part to put an tripod mount. What boggles me is why m43 sensor and EF mount? Wouldnt it be more sensible to get the proper m43 mount? I think those EF lenses would just be an overkill. m43 are much smaller and better fit for that body. Maybe they are just future-proofing their situation. The idea being that down the road they might want to go with an APS-C or even full frame sensor. If that's the case, then going with micro four thirds mount could paint them into a corner. Beyond which, as Clackers says, they have lenses for EF mount and not for micro four thirds.

11-06-2018, 12:16 PM	#214
Trickortreat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 561	That one never came to market, but this one did: Samsung Galaxy NX - Wikipedia Too bad samsung didnt continue that line. Imagine that one with all the computational goodies of todays android

11-06-2018, 01:19 PM - 1 Like	#215
RGlasel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Saskatoon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,228	Originally posted by Trickortreat Too bad samsung didnt continue that line. It takes a much higher sales volume to justify manufacturing a new camera line than to keep an existing product line in production, but the only conclusion that can be drawn from the Galaxy NX (and the entire NX system) is that sales were never high enough to justify Samsung's investment in it. I highly doubt a more powerful version of Android OS would have saved NX. Following WWII, there were all kinds of variation on camera design and more recently, we saw a number of different variations in the first 12 years of the 21st century. Compact digital cameras (fixed lens) were selling at a rate never before seen in the photographic industry and with a lag of only a couple of years, SLR sales followed suit. By 2013, compact camera sales were losing lots of ground to smartphones and DSLR sales were past their peak. Since then, the high disposable income portion of the DSLR market has been looking for something to keep spending money on, but the mass consumer market is gone, probably for good. That's only five years ago. The remaining camera buyers have years and years of experience using SLRs (digital and film). They want to spend money on things that are different from what they already have, but not too different. Going to a 100% touchscreen interface is too different. Going to a size and form that is awkward to hold in two hands is too different. Going to a lens mount that doesn't allow for the use of already owned lenses is too different. MILC's in conventional forms aren't too different, but unless they transform the experience of taking photographs in a positive way, they are never going to displace SLRs completely and their owners will soon start looking for something else that isn't too different. The SLR has survived more than half a century of new variations on the theme of a camera, it's not going away anytime soon.

11-06-2018, 09:58 PM	#216
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Sony and DxO both tried selling a combined 1" sensor and zoom lens that used your phone as the viewfinder and interface, with the logic that phones already rule photography and anybody who wants better pictures would buy their product. Both were duds.

11-07-2018, 12:11 AM	#217
Trickortreat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 561	Yeh, those were crap products. Too flimsy and awkward to use :/

11-07-2018, 01:42 PM	#218
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	Please help me chop this off.

11-08-2018, 06:50 AM	#219
agp1337 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 46 Original Poster	Just for information, there has been a slight change of plan about my Pentax gear. ALL of the KP/APSC stuff is going on Ebay, as is the body. The 15-30mm is still a beast, so that is the only K1 gear which is being sold (2 bids already!). WHY don't they make lighter lenses - say 15-30mm f4? The three lenses I will keep: 28-105, 200mm (f2.8 again!) and Irix 11mm (wonderful lens, though not automatic like the 15-30). The Irix is heavy too, but that is worth it for rare occasions. Why the change of heart? To say goodbye I took out the K1 and 28-105 for some local shots i needed this morning. It was lovely using it, and the results are obviously good. I'd miss it! Still like the Fuji kit, though, and will be getting the K-T3 body in a couple of weeks. Several reviews call it the best APSC camera ever.

11-08-2018, 07:07 AM	#220
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by agp1337 Just for information, there has been a slight change of plan about my Pentax gear. ALL of the KP/APSC stuff is going on Ebay, as is the body. The 15-30mm is still a beast, so that is the only K1 gear which is being sold (2 bids already!). WHY don't they make lighter lenses - say 15-30mm f4? The three lenses I will keep: 28-105, 200mm (f2.8 again!) and Irix 11mm (wonderful lens, though not automatic like the 15-30). The Irix is heavy too, but that is worth it for rare occasions. Why the change of heart? To say goodbye I took out the K1 and 28-105 for some local shots i needed this morning. It was lovely using it, and the results are obviously good. I'd miss it! Still like the Fuji kit, though, and will be getting the K-T3 body in a couple of weeks. Several reviews call it the best APSC camera ever. Do you buy all the cameras that someone somewhere calls "the best APS-c camera ever?" Just messing with you.

11-08-2018, 07:55 AM - 1 Like	#221
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,126	What's funny is looking at the best seller list on Amazon.com shows how the click-bait doomsters are totally wrong about both the death of DSLRs and the death of compact P&S cameras. Four of the top ten best sellers are Canon Rebel T6 kits. No MILCs make the top 10. About two thirds of the top 50 are P&S, mostly compact ones with a few larger bridge cameras thrown in. In total, only 3 MILCs make it into the top-50 -- all Sony a7 models or kits coming in at #11, #13, and #45 on the list. Despite all the hype about mirrorless and smart phones killing everything else, DSLRs and compacts continue to be the best-selling cameras. Apparently the people who actually buy cameras don't listen to the people who only shout about cameras.

11-08-2018, 07:56 AM	#222
SSGGeezer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Indiana, U.S. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,845	Originally posted by agp1337 Just for information, there has been a slight change of plan about my Pentax gear. ALL of the KP/APSC stuff is going on Ebay, as is the body. The 15-30mm is still a beast, so that is the only K1 gear which is being sold (2 bids already!). WHY don't they make lighter lenses - say 15-30mm f4? The three lenses I will keep: 28-105, 200mm (f2.8 again!) and Irix 11mm (wonderful lens, though not automatic like the 15-30). The Irix is heavy too, but that is worth it for rare occasions. Why the change of heart? To say goodbye I took out the K1 and 28-105 for some local shots i needed this morning. It was lovely using it, and the results are obviously good. I'd miss it! Still like the Fuji kit, though, and will be getting the K-T3 body in a couple of weeks. Several reviews call it the best APSC camera ever. Why did you not post them for sale here and skip the fees? Android is terrible on phones in my opinion and I can only imagine how bad it would be on a camera. I can imagine some serious horror when it tries to download Candy Crush on your camera!

11-08-2018, 10:23 AM	#223
agp1337 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 46 Original Poster	There is a certain amount of protection with Ebay, @SSSGeezer. I could post them here as well, but then if it sold here I would have to end the Ebay auction, and I won't end them early. @Normhead, thanks for your comment. Its fine, I didn't take it personally. The Fuji X-T3 has a number of reviews saying the same thing. That wouldn't convince me on its own, but I already know how good the E3 is, i have lenses for the system and it would be a perfect complement. In addition, the video apparently is sensational.

11-08-2018, 02:18 PM	#224
SSGGeezer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Indiana, U.S. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,845	Originally posted by agp1337 but I already know how good the E3 is, i have lenses for the system and it would be a perfect complement. In addition, the video apparently is sensational. That is a good reason for change and the XT3 looks like a pretty amazing bit of kit. Buying and selling here has been nothing but great for me here. I think the approbation if you did someone wrong would mean you will never get your site supporter fees back from selling gear.

12-03-2018, 10:10 AM	#225
Merv-O Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Philadelphia Photos: Albums Posts: 2,098	The KP with the small/pancake lenses is outstanding....small fast, modern, has much higher ceiling than most mirrorless cameras (certainly more than the RF mirrorless standard--Leica TL2 of CL auto twins from the Red Dot People)….I doubt SLR's are going anywhere for a long time, particularly given the cult status film has with a whole new generation of shooters.