[agp1337]

My last post on this. Thanks for the feedback.

I have decided to sell the KP outfit on Ebay (UK only) and keep the K1, on the principle that it is excellent quality and cost a fortune.

I've weighed roughly equivalent outfits on the Fuji and KP, and the KP comes out nearly 400g heavier - with 10-24mm lens instead of the Samyang. It is also more bulky. As some have said, it depends what is important to you. I do a lot of walking, and the weight and bulk are issues, especially with arthritis setting in with age! It all fits into a small Domke bag, with room for a drink and odd bits. See the picture - note that currently the Samyang is there, but it will be exchanged for a 10-24 next month, perfect for long Ramblers' walks with no other lenses.

One final thing - I took this picture with the KP and 16-85, and the original looked great! (The picture was reduced for the website.)

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Last edited by agp1337; 10-26-2018 at 04:27 AM.

[slartibartfast01]

Amateur is in modern usage pretty much the opposite of professional. It definitely has some negative connotations, at least where I live. This is of course all defined by context. IN sports amateur is like one step under professional, but way above the norm. But if you are an amateur tennis player, you simply weren't good enough to get on the tour, and there are many sports where the amateurs are quite a ways down the ladder, below both pro and semi pro players in developmental leagues. IN this case I used amateur to mean "unprofessional". And I consider the clickbait journalism they put out there unprofessional.

They may have good info, but I refuse to support them, because buying thier magazine for it's positive content also supports their anti-Pentax, anti- DSLR agenda. Which is an agenda unsupported by any facts or insight. It falls in line with my policy of not supporting people who don't support me. Amateur photgraphy seems to be running a one company campaign to declare Pentax irrelevant. I'm running a one person campaign to declare Amateur Photgraphy irrelevant, which they are completely to my life. If it wasn't for the anti-Pentax articles posted here on the forum, I wouldn't have clue who there are. Fair is fair.

But if you think your life's better for reading that junk, go for it. But you might want to keep it to yourself unless you want to spend hours defending their ignorance.

Saying the death of DSLRs is imminent is like me saying I might have to have my finger amputated because of a hangnail. You'd laugh if I said that, but Amateur Photgraphy says something just as ridiculous and it get's posted.

Amateur Photographer along with DPR are two sites actively and without cause predicting the death or Pentax in a manner that will harm Pentax sales to their readers. You are paying them to do that.

I wouldn't say Amateur Photographer was anti-Pentax. Their reviews of Pentax cameras have been consistently good over the past few years.

[ThorSanchez]

End of the DSLR? No.
End of the DSLR for Amateur Photographer Mag and you? Yes.

To me, convenience or ease of use has always been secondary to the tools themselves. Whenever I think my medium format 645 is too heavy, I think about Ansel Adams with his heavy duty tripods and large format hikes. On Adams' lightweight days, he did revert to a medium format Hasselblad. And to think, B&H currently sells 48 different large format camera options made by five brands, but only three 35mm cameras made by two brands.

Ahhh... I just had a lightbulb moment. Now I understand the appeal of 7000-lb SUVs: Mathew Brady used to take 70,000-ton trains everywhere to take photos and he did just fine!

[UncleVanya]

My last post on this. Thanks for the feedback.

I have decided to sell the KP outfit on Ebay (UK only) and keep the K1, on the principle that it is excellent quality and cost a fortune.

I've weighed roughly equivalent outfits on the Fuji and KP, and the KP comes out nearly 400g heavier - with 10-24mm lens instead of the Samyang. It is also more bulky. As some have said, it depends what is important to you. I do a lot of walking, and the weight and bulk are issues, especially with arthritis setting in with age! It all fits into a small Domke bag, with room for a drink and odd bits. See the picture - note that currently the Samyang is there, but it will be exchanged for a 10-24 next month, perfect for long Ramblers' walks with no other lenses.

One final thing - I took this picture with the KP and 16-85, and the original looked great! (The picture was reduced for the website.)

I'm really curious what your specific equivalent lenses were since none of my analysis agrees with your numbers. This is not a knock on you, but genuine curiosity. I can't seem to create equal kits using my knowledge of the Fuji ecosystem (which is admittedly not my expertise) that aren't very similar in weight and size.

[Ontarian50]

This may be true with gasoline and other basic commodities, but it's false for cameras. If consumers always chose the less expensive product, Canon, Nikon, and Sony would have killed all their high-end models long ago and Leica would only be a memory.

No doubt, some people do buy the cheapest possible econo-camera and some future low-spec mirrorless will eventually replace the Canon Rebel. But at the same time, photography attracts the kinds of people who are willing to pay to get what they want and a significant percentage of people simply don't enjoy an EVF as much as an OVF.

I don't mean to say that expensive products are doomed in the marketplace. Not in the least. Consumers luuuuuve high-end products! But manufacturers dislike making things that are more expensive to produce than their competitors.

I don't think there's any chance high-megapixel count, full-frame cameras, with loads of dynamic range and every focusing feature, will disappear anytime soon (even if half the population are convinced their phone camera is "just as good"). But if manufacturer A has to spend 20% more to deliver that feature set with an SLR mirror, prism, and optical finder, than manufacturer B who uses an EVF, who's going to win at the cash register?

Don't get me wrong, I still believe in the beauty of the SLR focusing screen experience - but I don't think anyone who is designing tomorrow's cameras cares what I think.

Nobody asked me if I wanted my local video rental stores to close up, even though a movie on disk is better quality than a stream. Nobody asked me if I wanted to keep open the local lab that developed my slide film, even though I still much preferred my transparencies to the six megapixel DSLRs we were told were the future.

When I first got into photography there were dozens of manufacturers making SLR cameras, from Alpa to Zenit. Now there are just five, I think. Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Hasselblad, and Phase One. Pentax is unique in that they have models covering APS-C, FF, and MF. But .....

[normhead]

I wouldn't say Amateur Photographer was anti-Pentax. Their reviews of Pentax cameras have been consistently good over the past few years.

You did read the editorial in which they predicted the death of Pentax didn't you? There was a link to it here on the forum. It doesn't matter what your reviews are like if you're scaring people off the brand. Magazines whos main purpose is to help people select camera gear shouldn't be engaging in gross negative speculation. There's a difference between reporting a demise and helping cause it. Amateur Photographer and DPR have crossed the line.

As for the OP, yawn... someone sells their Pentax gear, some one quits another brand and buys Pentax gear. Do we on the Pentax forum need to know who's leaving? We just welcome the new ones and move on. There's little of less interest than someone leaving the brand. Those aren't the droids I'm looking for. That fuji 10-24 looks massive. And I don't take my Sigma 8-16 on hikes, because it's massive the FL is rarely needed. My 18-135 on hikes gives me moderate telephoto and pseudo macro. I walk a minimum of 7 miles a day, and if I think there's going to good landscapes I take the K-1 and DFA 28-105, and my lunch and all other hikeing gear I need in my Slingshot. Which even has a special compartment for my lunch and a super light weight raincoat.

None of the reasons stated for using a Fuji makes the slightest bit of sense to me. They are full of contradictions. Have to have small body, have to have a big huge lens. But then, I like to come home with a variety of images. I'm also amazed when as a 70 year old with a hip replacement, people tell me they need lighter gear than I do.

So, I'd just say there's something not quite explainable that appeals to this guy and leave it at that. The OPs mistake is that he thought he had a justification that would make sense to the rest of us.It's personal preference. And it can be difficult to explain personal preference.

Again just guessing, I think there's something about the Fuji system the OP finds appealing. There's nothing wrong with that. So, good luck with that. The fact that I don't understand the decision, as hiker, paddler and outdoors type means nothing and is neither here nor there. Different people do even the same types of activities differently. The fact that I wouldn't go out with nothing but a 10-24 means nothing in the grand scheme of things. It's irrelevant. The OP thinks he can live with that, and I hope he's right, as suspicious as I am of his decision.

People say "this is what I want and why" , other people say "that doesn't work for me." and explain why. Life goes on.

[Alex645]

When I first got into photography there were dozens of manufacturers making SLR cameras, from Alpa to Zenit. Now there are just five, I think. Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Hasselblad, and Phase One. Pentax is unique in that they have models covering APS-C, FF, and MF. But .....

You can also include Sigma, Sony, Mamiya, and Leica to your list of five SLRs still made today; total nine.

[normhead]

You can also include Sigma, Sony, Mamiya, and Leica to your list of five SLRs still made today; total nine.

There are a pile of camera makers who are no longer around that you can add to the list as well. The original points still stands. I don't think the idea was to compile a comprehensive list of either.

But I do wonder, do users of Sigma, Sony (DSLRs) , Mamiya and Leica cameras hear as little about Pentax as we hear about them? I honestly could care less about any of those companies. They have absolutely zero relevance to me. The cameras are not on the list of options I keep track of in case I decide I need something else. To me they are just empty names with no known attributes.

To me it's important to know how to make the most out of what you have. There's absolutely nothing to be gained by knowing a lot about the stuff you don't have.

[Jeff]

You did read the editorial in which they predicted the death of Pentax didn't you? There was a link to it here on the forum. It doesn't matter what your reviews are like if you're scaring people off the brand. Magazines whos main purpose is to help people select camera gear shouldn't be engaging in gross negative speculation. There's a difference between reporting a demise and helping cause it. Amateur Photographer and DPR have crossed the line.

As for the OP, yawn... someone sells their Pentax gear, some one quits another brand and buys Pentax gear. Do we on the Pentax forum need to know who's leaving? We just welcome the new ones and move on. There's little of less interest than someone leaving the brand. Those aren't the droids I'm looking for. That fuji 10-24 looks massive. And I don't take my Sigma 8-16 on hikes, because it's massive the FL is rarely needed. My 18-135 on hikes gives me moderate telephoto and pseudo macro. I walk a minimum of 7 miles a day, and if I think there's going to good landscapes I take the K-1 and DFA 28-105, and my lunch and all other hikeing gear I need in my Slingshot. Which even has a special compartment for my lunch and a super light weight raincoat.

None of the reasons stated for using a Fuji makes the slightest bit of sense to me. They are full of contradictions. Have to have small body, have to have a big huge lens. But then, I like to come home with a variety of images. I'm also amazed when as a 70 year old with a hip replacement, people tell me they need lighter gear than I do.

So, I'd just say there's something not quite explainable that appeals to this guy and leave it at that. The OPs mistake is that he thought he had a justification that would make sense to the rest of us.It's personal preference. And it can be difficult to explain personal preference.

Again just guessing, I think there's something about the Fuji system the OP finds appealing. There's nothing wrong with that. So, good luck with that. The fact that I don't understand the decision, as hiker, paddler and outdoors type means nothing and is neither here nor there. Different people do even the same types of activities differently. The fact that I wouldn't go out with nothing but a 10-24 means nothing in the grand scheme of things. It's irrelevant. The OP thinks he can live with that, and I hope he's right, as suspicious as I am of his decision.

People say "this is what I want and why" , other people say "that doesn't work for me." and explain why. Life goes on.

I think that AP can say what they like. Surely it is their job to look at things from all angles, good and bad?

They assess all types of image-making equipment and I don't believe that they want Pentax to fail. They are one of the very few publications (certainly in the UK) to mention Pentax, or write articles about Pentax products. If Pentax fails because of AP then that would be something!

They have, as has been mentioned above by slartibartfast01, written some very encouraging articles on Pentax cameras - the K1 and 28-105 were the subjects of a report of a trip to the Faroe Islands and the article was very positive. If you as a journalist were writing about X product and there were companies who fairly regularly produced new derivatives of X, and another company which engendered warm fuzzy feelings amongst its product users but for all intents and purposes released very little X into the market, with no commentary on the future save for a lonely graphic which gets trotted out in a rather desultory fashion at a few roadshows (the lens roadmap) showing a few nice potential but not guaranteed x's, might you also have some doubts about their longevity? I cannot think of any other group of supporters of X that would have held on for so little for so long!

I think that Pentax has to provide some clarity about the future or people will simply be worn down by all the waiting and simply move on. We as Pentax users need new blood to keep the brand going, but if all Pentax does is release a new lens every now and then, and give no indication of its future support of crop/FF/MF cameras and lenses why would anyone invest in any of their offerings? This is a direct quote from one of your posts: In the end, more total bodies and more Pentax users in total will lead to more future demand. That part is pretty simple. If that does not happen then consumers will buy a laggy mirrorless EVF over a bright DSLR OVF because is will be easier. Being a Pentax supporter and/or user just feels at times like being a salmon swimming upstream!

[Rondec]

I'm really curious what your specific equivalent lenses were since none of my analysis agrees with your numbers. This is not a knock on you, but genuine curiosity. I can't seem to create equal kits using my knowledge of the Fuji ecosystem (which is admittedly not my expertise) that aren't very similar in weight and size.

I agree. But part of the issue is that if you compare the 16-85 to the Fujifilm 18-135, it isn't really a similar comparison. Better to compare the Pentax 18-135 to the Fuji 18-135 (Fuji doesn't have an 18-90-ish variable aperture zoom). If you compare similar to similar other than wide primes, lenses are about the same size for both cameras.

[normhead]

We as Pentax users need new blood to keep the brand going, but if all Pentax does is release a new lens every now and then, and give no indication of its future support of crop/FF/MF cameras and lenses why would anyone invest in any of their offerings?

Because you can already get everything you need from Pentax and lot more? Why would you buy from a company who announces something coming if there is already a Pentax solution? Before the DFA 50 1.4 was realized there was already an FA 50 1.4m and SMC super tac 1.4 and the more modern DA* 551.4. You had options. Comaparing Pentax to companies who's whole inventory was released in the last 5 years is ridiculous. This is an issue that poster after poster uses. Pretending that they are interested in every new lens Pentax produces, and aren't interested in some of the great older glass available. Not because they want to buy them, they don't but because they want to be amused.

But bottom line, you cold buy into Pentax, just for the older glass available and many do. Do you really think the 31 and 77, 85 1.4, DA*200 etc. aren't selling K-1s.... Reality check.

For many users, being able to get their feet wet on older cheaper glass before taking the big plunge on expensive heavy modern stuff is big plus. My guess is, a bigger plus than endless product announcements about catalogues that are for the most part pretty barren.

There's little more senseless than someone trotting out their opinion of what Pentax has to do and actually expecting people to think they know what they are talking about. These untestable theories are nice to believe in, but what's the point. You'll never even know if you were right.

Unless in your mind a completely unsupported personal opinion is the same as the gospel truth. An apt term, given that so many of these theories can't be proven, and are for some, articles of faith.

[reh321]

* I do realize there is a difference in how current EVF equipped mirrorless cameras and rangefinders work - they are based upon the same fundamental principle.

I don't see that at all - an EVF uses the same lens as the shutter does, so it directly shows what the lens sees; a rangefinder has a separate window, so it has some parallax issues, doesn't show if lens is blocked {such as by lens cap or finger}, and has no direct knowledge of changing lenses.

[Alex645]

There are a pile of camera makers who are no longer around that you can add to the list as well. The original points still stands. I don't think the idea was to compile a comprehensive list of either.

"The original point"; yours or the OP? I was just correcting a post that stated there were 5 current DSLR makes, when there are in fact 9. A comprehensive list is not any more important than when someone states incorrectly that the only remaining DSLRs are Canons and Nikons.

But I do wonder, do users of Sigma, Sony (DSLRs) , Mamiya and Leica cameras hear as little about Pentax as we hear about them? I honestly could care less about any of those companies. They have absolutely zero relevance to me. The cameras are not on the list of options I keep track of in case I decide I need something else. To me they are just empty names with no known attributes.

Friends and associates that I know that shoot Leica are in their own universe, but yes they do have significantly different attributes that their users care about such as the Foveon sensor, an alternative to Pentax with IBIS, or Zeiss optics. Just because these aren't essential features to me doesn't mean I can't appreciate why the others, like the OP, have moved away from Pentax. I personally think there are more reasons to shoot Pentax and it would be interesting to see any stats of the migration numbers to or away from Pentax.

To me it's important to know how to make the most out of what you have. There's absolutely nothing to be gained by knowing a lot about the stuff you don't have.

I totally agree that it IS important to know how to make the most out of what you have. I disagree that there's absolutely nothing to be gained by knowing about the rest. If that were the case, I wouldn't be shooting Pentax and all my students would be shooting Canons.

[normhead]

I disagree that there's absolutely nothing to be gained by knowing about the rest. If that were the case, I wouldn't be shooting Pentax and all my students would be shooting Canons.

There is a difference between researching your purchases and keeping tabs on what every camera company is doing all the time. So, you're telling me you and your students know everything about every camera? And it's on the exam because it's so important? Nonsense.

As I said, I keep tabs on a few companies that interest me, and ignore the rest. Doing more than that could be hobby on it's own and full time job.

[Alex645]

So, you're telling me you and your students know everything about every camera? Nonsense.

No, and I did not say my students (or I) know everything about every camera. But in my digital class I currently have students with brand new Pentax, Lumix, and Sony cameras as well as Canon and Nikon. Half those cameras are hand-me-downs, but half were purchased new for the class. Every semester (3x per year) I update an email I send to them and their parents about the options, pros and cons, etc, and then they hopefully make an informed choice.

I have no interest in switching to Fujifilm mirrorless, but I'm still interested in knowing why one person switched away from Pentax DSLR.