The End of the DSLR?

**Rondec** · 11-04-2018, 03:28 AM

Originally posted by Trickortreat

Its not the problem of the EF mount that will stick dor at least 10 or mo years. The problem is EF mountnon a small mirrorless body. Both Pentax and Sigma proved that a full DSLR mount on a mirrorles camera isnt really a recipe for success...
M43 would be a faaaar better fit..

I don't think you are reading things right at all. The EF mount has a registration distance of 44mm which is actually relatively short for SLRs. A camera body with this distance and no mirror could mount Pentax, Nikon and of course Canon lenses. But the bigger question is specs and functionality. That is where the K-01 and Sigma endeavors fell down and I doubt that the Yongnuo will have anything close to Olympus or Panasonic functionality. The big thing going for it will be that it is cheap, but that probably won't be enough to sell many.

**Digitalis** · 11-04-2018, 04:42 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

A camera body with this distance [44mm] and no mirror could mount Pentax, Nikon and of course Canon lenses.

There would be big problems with infinity focus though. I don't think there will ever be a "universal" lens mount in the future.

**UncleVanya** · 11-04-2018, 05:51 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Rondec

I don't think you are reading things right at all. The EF mount has a registration distance of 44mm which is actually relatively short for SLRs. A camera body with this distance and no mirror could mount Pentax, Nikon and of course Canon lenses. But the bigger question is specs and functionality. That is where the K-01 and Sigma endeavors fell down and I doubt that the Yongnuo will have anything close to Olympus or Panasonic functionality. The big thing going for it will be that it is cheap, but that probably won't be enough to sell many.

The mount distance is well over double that of m43 if this is based on the full size ef mount. It isn't just longer, it is also wider than necessary and would add bulk. EF-m might make sense, there's been some chatter that may be what they meant.

Adapted lenses for current m43 users quite often include Canon FD mount which wouldn't work. The same for Leica m mount and a host of other short flange length lenses.

**ThorSanchez** · 11-04-2018, 05:58 AM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

The mount distance is well over double that of m43 if this is based on the full size ef mount. It isn't just longer, it is also wider than necessary and would add bulk. EF-m might make sense, there's been some chatter that may be what they meant.

Adapted lenses for current m43 users quite often include Canon FD mount which wouldn't work. The same for Leica m mount and a host of other short flange length lenses.

I initially thought EF-M made a lot more sense, and maybe that's what they meant. But the photos of the camera have a 14mm lens mounted, and looking on the Yongnuo site it looks like they only make a 14mm for Nikon and Canon EF mount. Nothing for EF-M.

**UncleVanya** · 11-04-2018, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by ThorSanchez

I initially thought EF-M made a lot more sense, and maybe that's what they meant. But the photos of the camera have a 14mm lens mounted, and looking on the Yongnuo site it looks like they only make a 14mm for Nikon and Canon EF mount. Nothing for EF-M.

Good point. I'm at a loss to explain the logic in this design if true.

reh321 · 11-04-2018, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by Trickortreat

Both Pentax and Sigma proved that a full DSLR mount on a mirrorles camera isnt really a recipe for success.

No, apparently that is what Pentax "learned" ..... but the real lesson is that MILC without EVF isn't a recipe for success.

Trickortreat · 11-04-2018, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

I don't think you are reading things right at all. The EF mount has a registration distance of 44mm which is actually relatively short for SLRs. A camera body with this distance and no mirror could mount Pentax, Nikon and of course Canon lenses. But the bigger question is specs and functionality. That is where the K-01 and Sigma endeavors fell down and I doubt that the Yongnuo will have anything close to Olympus or Panasonic functionality. The big thing going for it will be that it is cheap, but that probably won't be enough to sell many.

44mm is still just too much.

Originally posted by reh321

No, apparently that is what Pentax "learned" ..... but the real lesson is that MILC without EVF isn't a recipe for success.

EVF was just one more thing. But mount is the biggest problem. Only way to design a proper mirrorless is from ground up. And thats why both Ninon and Canon went with new mounts even they have huge amount of modern lenses in F and EF mount.

**ThorSanchez** · 11-04-2018, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by Trickortreat

44mm is still just too much.

EVF was just one more thing. But mount is the biggest problem. Only way to design a proper mirrorless is from ground up. And thats why both Ninon and Canon went with new mounts even they have huge amount of modern lenses in F and EF mount.

You can use an SLR mount on a mirrorless, maybe even make a good camera that way. The problem is that you have a roughly 50x60x60mm area that has to be unused dead space. An entire Fuji X-A5 is 117x68x40, which is less than twice the volume of the empty space in a K-mount mirrorless.

Using a DSLR mount means your pocketable size argument for mirrorless is out the window, so you have to make the camera very compelling in other ways. I suppose you could try selling a weight advantage, since the extra volume is just air.

SSGGeezer · 11-04-2018, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

I didn't think most modern windows allowed through UV light, which is what is hypothesized as the trigger for this neurotransmitter. Certainly I could lie in front of my windows all day long and never get a tan. It doesn't mean it isn't beneficial to my health to see the sun through the windows, but I think there is probably more benefit to going outside.

UV B comes through and is the source of your warm floor and hot car when you leave it closed up in the summer. You only need about 15 minutes of sun to let your body create the needed vitamin D for the day so more than that may be overkill. And too much sun is bad and as Digitalis said, the risk of developing skin cancer is there. Been there got the scars on my once handsome mug!

normhead · 11-04-2018, 08:28 AM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by SSGGeezer

UV B comes through and is the source of your warm floor and hot car when you leave it closed up in the summer. You only need about 15 minutes of sun to let your body create the needed vitamin D for the day so more than that may be overkill. And too much sun is bad and as Digitalis said, the risk of developing skin cancer is there. Been there got the scars on my once handsome mug!

I once saw a Dr. Oz show that said the best way to increase testosterone levels ( which decrease as you age) was to sun tan your nuts for 20 minutes a day. Knowing I could do that indoors would have saved me a couple of arrests.

Just kidding, honest.

reh321 · 11-04-2018, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by ThorSanchez

You can use an SLR mount on a mirrorless, maybe even make a good camera that way. The problem is that you have a roughly 50x60x60mm area that has to be unused dead space. An entire Fuji X-A5 is 117x68x40, which is less than twice the volume of the empty space in a K-mount mirrorless.[

Using a DSLR mount means your pocketable size argument for mirrorless is out the window, so you have to make the camera very compelling in other ways. I suppose you could try selling a weight advantage, since the extra volume is just air.

Most MILC proponents don't talk about size or weight - they talk about the benefits they get in AF, burst speed, video, and EVF.

Trickortreat · 11-04-2018, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by reh321

Most MILC proponents don't talk about size or weight - they talk about the benefits they get in AF, burst speed, video, and EVF.

Dunno about most, but for me its all about size and weight...

**RGlasel** · 11-04-2018, 12:46 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by normhead

sun tan your nuts for 20 minutes a day

Just get someone to put lotion on them first. That act of service will probably do more for your testosterone levels than exposing them to sunlight. Another example of how many of life's problems can be fixed with a small application of commonsense.

---------- Post added 11-04-18 at 01:48 PM ----------

Originally posted by Trickortreat

Dunno about most, but for me its all about size and weight...

Are you referring to Norm's nuts, or something else.

**Rondec** · 11-04-2018, 02:56 PM

I don't know.

Half of you act as though the problem is that the mount is too wide and half that it is too long. Probably the biggest issue is the limitation in lenses available for use with adapters. As far as size, you are talking about 2 cm distance in depth and 2 cm distance in width of the lens mount diameter. I know every centimeter counts, but honestly, I can't imagine this will make or break such a camera.

As I said before, the biggest questions will center around functionality. How good is the EVF? Is the auto focus decent? What sorts of helps will be available for manual focusing? What sort of video will it have and what will the still image quality be? Those and many others will determine if people buy this camera or choose to spend a bit more for one from an existing brand.

Originally posted by Digitalis

There would be big problems with infinity focus though. I don't think there will ever be a "universal" lens mount in the future.

Obviously it would require an adapter, but you wouldn't need to do surgery on your K mount lenses as there is no mirror to mess them up.

Trickortreat · 11-05-2018, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

Half of you act as though the problem is that the mount is too wide and half that it is too long. Probably the biggest issue is the limitation in lenses available for use with adapters. As far as size, you are talking about 2 cm distance in depth and 2 cm distance in width of the lens mount diameter. I know every centimeter counts, but honestly, I can't imagine this will make or break such a camera.

But it would break it. Why make such a slim body and then put an ugly lump on it. They might as well just made a DSLR and no one would complain.

11-04-2018, 04:42 AM	#167
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by Rondec A camera body with this distance [44mm] and no mirror could mount Pentax, Nikon and of course Canon lenses. There would be big problems with infinity focus though. I don't think there will ever be a "universal" lens mount in the future. Last edited by Digitalis; 11-04-2018 at 04:50 AM.

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11-04-2018, 03:28 AM	#166
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Originally posted by Trickortreat Its not the problem of the EF mount that will stick dor at least 10 or mo years. The problem is EF mountnon a small mirrorless body. Both Pentax and Sigma proved that a full DSLR mount on a mirrorles camera isnt really a recipe for success... M43 would be a faaaar better fit.. I don't think you are reading things right at all. The EF mount has a registration distance of 44mm which is actually relatively short for SLRs. A camera body with this distance and no mirror could mount Pentax, Nikon and of course Canon lenses. But the bigger question is specs and functionality. That is where the K-01 and Sigma endeavors fell down and I doubt that the Yongnuo will have anything close to Olympus or Panasonic functionality. The big thing going for it will be that it is cheap, but that probably won't be enough to sell many.

11-04-2018, 05:51 AM - 1 Like	#168
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,459	Originally posted by Rondec I don't think you are reading things right at all. The EF mount has a registration distance of 44mm which is actually relatively short for SLRs. A camera body with this distance and no mirror could mount Pentax, Nikon and of course Canon lenses. But the bigger question is specs and functionality. That is where the K-01 and Sigma endeavors fell down and I doubt that the Yongnuo will have anything close to Olympus or Panasonic functionality. The big thing going for it will be that it is cheap, but that probably won't be enough to sell many. The mount distance is well over double that of m43 if this is based on the full size ef mount. It isn't just longer, it is also wider than necessary and would add bulk. EF-m might make sense, there's been some chatter that may be what they meant. Adapted lenses for current m43 users quite often include Canon FD mount which wouldn't work. The same for Leica m mount and a host of other short flange length lenses.

11-04-2018, 05:58 AM	#169
ThorSanchez Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,807	Originally posted by UncleVanya The mount distance is well over double that of m43 if this is based on the full size ef mount. It isn't just longer, it is also wider than necessary and would add bulk. EF-m might make sense, there's been some chatter that may be what they meant. Adapted lenses for current m43 users quite often include Canon FD mount which wouldn't work. The same for Leica m mount and a host of other short flange length lenses. I initially thought EF-M made a lot more sense, and maybe that's what they meant. But the photos of the camera have a 14mm lens mounted, and looking on the Yongnuo site it looks like they only make a 14mm for Nikon and Canon EF mount. Nothing for EF-M.

11-04-2018, 06:04 AM	#170
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,459	Originally posted by ThorSanchez I initially thought EF-M made a lot more sense, and maybe that's what they meant. But the photos of the camera have a 14mm lens mounted, and looking on the Yongnuo site it looks like they only make a 14mm for Nikon and Canon EF mount. Nothing for EF-M. Good point. I'm at a loss to explain the logic in this design if true.

11-04-2018, 06:47 AM	#171
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,185	Originally posted by Trickortreat Both Pentax and Sigma proved that a full DSLR mount on a mirrorles camera isnt really a recipe for success. No, apparently that is what Pentax "learned" ..... but the real lesson is that MILC without EVF isn't a recipe for success.

11-04-2018, 07:07 AM	#172
Trickortreat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 561	Originally posted by Rondec I don't think you are reading things right at all. The EF mount has a registration distance of 44mm which is actually relatively short for SLRs. A camera body with this distance and no mirror could mount Pentax, Nikon and of course Canon lenses. But the bigger question is specs and functionality. That is where the K-01 and Sigma endeavors fell down and I doubt that the Yongnuo will have anything close to Olympus or Panasonic functionality. The big thing going for it will be that it is cheap, but that probably won't be enough to sell many. 44mm is still just too much. Originally posted by reh321 No, apparently that is what Pentax "learned" ..... but the real lesson is that MILC without EVF isn't a recipe for success. EVF was just one more thing. But mount is the biggest problem. Only way to design a proper mirrorless is from ground up. And thats why both Ninon and Canon went with new mounts even they have huge amount of modern lenses in F and EF mount.

11-04-2018, 07:56 AM	#173
ThorSanchez Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,807	Originally posted by Trickortreat 44mm is still just too much. EVF was just one more thing. But mount is the biggest problem. Only way to design a proper mirrorless is from ground up. And thats why both Ninon and Canon went with new mounts even they have huge amount of modern lenses in F and EF mount. You can use an SLR mount on a mirrorless, maybe even make a good camera that way. The problem is that you have a roughly 50x60x60mm area that has to be unused dead space. An entire Fuji X-A5 is 117x68x40, which is less than twice the volume of the empty space in a K-mount mirrorless. Using a DSLR mount means your pocketable size argument for mirrorless is out the window, so you have to make the camera very compelling in other ways. I suppose you could try selling a weight advantage, since the extra volume is just air.

11-04-2018, 08:16 AM	#174
SSGGeezer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Indiana, U.S. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,845	Originally posted by Rondec I didn't think most modern windows allowed through UV light, which is what is hypothesized as the trigger for this neurotransmitter. Certainly I could lie in front of my windows all day long and never get a tan. It doesn't mean it isn't beneficial to my health to see the sun through the windows, but I think there is probably more benefit to going outside. UV B comes through and is the source of your warm floor and hot car when you leave it closed up in the summer. You only need about 15 minutes of sun to let your body create the needed vitamin D for the day so more than that may be overkill. And too much sun is bad and as Digitalis said, the risk of developing skin cancer is there. Been there got the scars on my once handsome mug!

11-04-2018, 08:28 AM - 3 Likes	#175
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by SSGGeezer UV B comes through and is the source of your warm floor and hot car when you leave it closed up in the summer. You only need about 15 minutes of sun to let your body create the needed vitamin D for the day so more than that may be overkill. And too much sun is bad and as Digitalis said, the risk of developing skin cancer is there. Been there got the scars on my once handsome mug! I once saw a Dr. Oz show that said the best way to increase testosterone levels ( which decrease as you age) was to sun tan your nuts for 20 minutes a day. Knowing I could do that indoors would have saved me a couple of arrests. Just kidding, honest.

11-04-2018, 10:19 AM	#176
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,185	Originally posted by ThorSanchez You can use an SLR mount on a mirrorless, maybe even make a good camera that way. The problem is that you have a roughly 50x60x60mm area that has to be unused dead space. An entire Fuji X-A5 is 117x68x40, which is less than twice the volume of the empty space in a K-mount mirrorless.[ Using a DSLR mount means your pocketable size argument for mirrorless is out the window, so you have to make the camera very compelling in other ways. I suppose you could try selling a weight advantage, since the extra volume is just air. Most MILC proponents don't talk about size or weight - they talk about the benefits they get in AF, burst speed, video, and EVF.

11-04-2018, 12:20 PM	#177
Trickortreat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 561	Originally posted by reh321 Most MILC proponents don't talk about size or weight - they talk about the benefits they get in AF, burst speed, video, and EVF. Dunno about most, but for me its all about size and weight...

11-04-2018, 12:46 PM - 3 Likes	#178
RGlasel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Saskatoon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,229	Originally posted by normhead sun tan your nuts for 20 minutes a day Just get someone to put lotion on them first. That act of service will probably do more for your testosterone levels than exposing them to sunlight. Another example of how many of life's problems can be fixed with a small application of commonsense. ---------- Post added 11-04-18 at 01:48 PM ---------- Originally posted by Trickortreat Dunno about most, but for me its all about size and weight... Are you referring to Norm's nuts, or something else.

11-04-2018, 02:56 PM	#179
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	I don't know. Half of you act as though the problem is that the mount is too wide and half that it is too long. Probably the biggest issue is the limitation in lenses available for use with adapters. As far as size, you are talking about 2 cm distance in depth and 2 cm distance in width of the lens mount diameter. I know every centimeter counts, but honestly, I can't imagine this will make or break such a camera. As I said before, the biggest questions will center around functionality. How good is the EVF? Is the auto focus decent? What sorts of helps will be available for manual focusing? What sort of video will it have and what will the still image quality be? Those and many others will determine if people buy this camera or choose to spend a bit more for one from an existing brand. Originally posted by Digitalis There would be big problems with infinity focus though. I don't think there will ever be a "universal" lens mount in the future. Obviously it would require an adapter, but you wouldn't need to do surgery on your K mount lenses as there is no mirror to mess them up.

11-05-2018, 12:20 AM	#180
Trickortreat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 561	Originally posted by Rondec Half of you act as though the problem is that the mount is too wide and half that it is too long. Probably the biggest issue is the limitation in lenses available for use with adapters. As far as size, you are talking about 2 cm distance in depth and 2 cm distance in width of the lens mount diameter. I know every centimeter counts, but honestly, I can't imagine this will make or break such a camera. But it would break it. Why make such a slim body and then put an ugly lump on it. They might as well just made a DSLR and no one would complain.