[reh321]

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I have two cameras, one Pentax, one Nikon, that currently will not save the date during a battery change, also a capacitor problem. Capacitors over time fail, all of them. The difference being that the Pentax was out on a hike on an ATV trail, submerged for two months, almost certainly was run over a few times, and was over 5 years old. The Nikon was sold to me as factory refurb and was supposed to be in new condition.

SO you can go on about what you think is usual. Are you saying there are companies that are making full time job of repairing K-30s? Or are you saying that this is an easy repair that a less than qualified technician can make some easy money from? In the last 10 years I have sent in 3 cameras, and 3 lenses, one 3 times for damage due to drops. Yet I see no companies advertising to beat Pentax's price on these repairs. Theses companies pick the low hanging fruit.

I am saying that this company specifically says they repair this problem, and only this problem
Pentax Camera Repair - Aperture Control Repair
The last time I heard, Pentax was charging more than the $100 this company charges to fix this problem

I am also saying that when I did a search for "aperture K-30" at eBay I got 12 results
aperture K-30 in Replacement Digital Camera Parts | eBay
Most of the companies are selling the so-called "green" solenoid, but one purchases old cameras just to get the old "white" solenoid
Pentax K-30 K-50 K-S1/S2 K-500 Genuine Aperture Solenoid Plunger Part - Japan - | eBay
and on the left side of the listing you will see the words "Fix dark image issue"

When I did a corresponding search for "aperture K-3" at eBay I got just 1 result, and it was a K-30 with the words "Aperture issue" in the title

[normhead]

I am saying that this company specifically says they repair this problem, and only this problem
Pentax Camera Repair - Aperture Control Repair
The last time I heard, Pentax was charging more than the $100 this company charges to fix this problem

I am also saying that when I did a search for "aperture K-30" at eBay I got 12 results
aperture K-30 in Replacement Digital Camera Parts | eBay
Most of the companies are selling the so-called "green" solenoid, but one purchases old cameras just to get the old "white" solenoid
Pentax K-30 K-50 K-S1/S2 K-500 Genuine Aperture Solenoid Plunger Part - Japan - | eBay
and on the left side of the listing you will see the words "Fix dark image issue"

When I did a corresponding search for "aperture K-3" at eBay I got just 1 result, and it was a K-30 with the words "Aperture issue" in the title

So you're saying for an extra $500 you get a more reliable camera with better components? Just what's your point?

You made your point, I made mine, do you really think I'm going to change my mind because you've added some informationthat, I've probably already considered. Do you honestly think you have some kind of "last word" I'm going to think is relevant?

You basically just shored up some of my other advice. If you want the best reliability, longevity etc, buy the flagship model. Going cheap can cost you more. There's a lot of people that don't want to hear that, but in the end, you get what you pay for. Cheaper cameras are made with cheaper components and don't hold up as well. Otherwise what would be the point of having a flagship models at all. You also with a K30- or K-50 don't get as much life in your shutters stated on factory spec. sheets. There are many other ways the effort to make cameras for folks who don't want to go the whole nine yards save on costs. Deal with it.

How do I know all these complaints are from people who have different camera use patterns than I do. One of the hardest things on capacitors is sitting unused for long periods of time with no charge on them. After all that's been said and done here, I'm still not sure that had I had one of these cameras, my part would have failed. There could be other issues involved based on use patterns, that might not affect me, because my cameras are never left without a charged battery in them, never sit on a shelf unused for even a week, and there could be other factors I can't even imagine. You're not seeing these kinds of issues because you're so focussed on the "Pentax did something wrong" angle.

But my bottom line is, I paid for the flagship, so it's all moot to me. I just get tired of all the headlines on "latest posts". Can we put a time limit on this topic? Maybe a free advert for the companies that do the repair for people who need it is in order. It's definitely an issue for some, I have no problem helping folks out. I just don't see the point of all this endless Pentax bashing over it.

[virusn3t]

I think no one can really know how "rare" was this problem.... but i used to own a Red Candy K30, and the aperture block indeed fail on me, about +/-18k shoots.... (out of warranty, of course), i find someone who repair the aperture block for about 60usd, and used for other 6k shoots without a problem, then i sold the camera (i did warrant the camera for 3 months and told the buyer about the repair) because i purchase a K3, the K3 didnt give any problem, but then was sold once i recieve my current K1 (mk1)...

So my advice is, unless this problem is already ackowledge (hard to happen as i believe the K500/30/50 are HOYA design) and the problem covered out out warranty, stay away from those cameras, maybe the rate failure is very low, but no one thinks thats its gonna happen to them until you shoot and the picture is a black frame

[reh321]

So you're saying for an extra $500 you get a more reliable camera with better components? Just what's your point?

You made your point, I made mine, do you really think I'm going to change my mind because you've added some informationthat, I've probably already considered. Do you honestly think you have some kind of "last word" I'm going to think is relevant.

You basically just shored up some of my other advice. If you want the best reliability, longevity etc, buy the flagship model. Going cheap can cost you more. There's a lot of people that don't want to hear that, but in the end, you get what you pay for. Cheaper cameras are made with cheaper components and don't hold up as well. Otherwise what would be the point of having flagship models at all. You also wit a K30- or K-50 don't get as much life in your shutters stated on factory spec. sheets. There are many other ways the effort to make cameras for folks who don't want to go the whole nine yards save on costs. Deal with it.

My point is, responding to the OP, yes what I called the "Dark Image Syndrome" is a real thing. Some Pentax employees may be oblivious to it because, as commented by CarlJF above, they don't see many since the problems typically occur after the warranty has expired

Unfortunately, the only problems that exist for Ricoh are those happening during the warranty period. ABF happens most frequently just outside of this period. Thus, people at the booth may be right when they say that ABF is very rare from their perspective. I know, it’s shortsighted, but it’s probably what’s happening...

but it is a real thing.

[pepperberry farm]

way back when this first started with the K-50 and the frenzy about whether or not there was a correlation to usage, I also suggested that we may be seeing 'overblown' numbers because you'll get the ones with the problem screaming bloody murder, in multiple threads, over and over and over...

while the large (and I do mean large) majority are out using the camera and there's another entire section of users that aren't even aware of this forum (gasp!) to report good or bad on their camera experiences...


you would have thought I poured sugar in several members' gas tanks for the responses I got....

so I shut up and let the handful of screaming whinebags have their threads full of overblown self-righteousness, and I was out using my K-50 and ignoring them....

[reh321]

way back when this first started with the K-50 and the frenzy about whether or not there was a correlation to usage, I also suggested that we may be seeing 'overblown' numbers because you'll get the ones with the problem screaming bloody murder, in multiple threads, over and over and over...

while the large (and I do mean large) majority are out using the camera and there's another entire section of users that aren't even aware of this forum (gasp!) to report good or bad on their camera experiences...


you would have thought I poured sugar in several members' gas tanks for the responses I got....

so I shut up and let the handful of screaming whinebags have their threads full of overblown self-righteousness, and I was out using my K-50 and ignoring them....

I questioned case after case - but when my K-30 produced a Dark Image, on schedule, I knew right away what it was. Mine still produces good images - I can work around the problem - but it is a real thing for many of us {which is what the OP asked}. You should feel lucky that you haven't had to deal with it.

[pepperberry farm]

I questioned case after case - but when my K-30 produced a Dark Image, on schedule, I knew right away what it was. Mine still produces good images - I can work around the problem - but it is a real thing for many of us {which is what the OP asked}. You should feel lucky that you haven't had to deal with it.

lucky, yes

other issues with my K-50, yes


once I started seeing electronic glitches in the K-50, I started planning on its replacement and I gave it away....

[mikesbike]

First of all, those in that Pentax booth are part of a sales team, and not familiar with service issues. Their orientation is for presenting the features that are offered by the products shown, and perhaps have a working knowledge of the history of the Pentax line and the development of these features. I am not surprised at all that they had no clue regarding the aperture problem.

I do wonder, however, if they know anything beyond what is shown in the current cameras owners' manuals. Their orientation might be that shallow. Owners' manuals in recent years have been sorely lacking in adequately explaining the various features and functions of the product. Even the unique Pentax Hyper System is not well presented. I wonder if they knew about this feature?

My impression regarding aperture block is while not rare, it is probably not common among the thousands of copies sold of certain models. We hear about it because we hear a higher percentage of complaints compared to people offering threads specifically for comments of product satisfaction.

[Not a Number]

First of all, those in that Pentax booth are part of a sales team, and not familiar with service issues. Their orientation is for presenting the features that are offered by the products shown, and perhaps have a working knowledge of the history of the Pentax line and the development of these features. I am not surprised at all that they had no clue regarding the aperture problem.

I do wonder, however, if they know anything beyond what is shown in the current cameras owners' manuals. Their orientation might be that shallow. Owners' manuals in recent years have been sorely lacking in adequately explaining the various features and functions of the product. Even the unique Pentax Hyper System is not well presented. I wonder if they knew about this feature?

My impression regarding aperture block is while not rare, it is probably not common among the thousands of copies sold of certain models. We hear about it because we hear a higher percentage of complaints compared to people offering threads specifically for comments of product satisfaction.

Sales people may not know, which is why they got one of the tech people to talk to the OP.

That RIcoh USA treats each camera sent in for repairs for this problem on a case by case basis says something to me about the frequency of failure.

[Alex645]

First of all, those in that Pentax booth are part of a sales team, and not familiar with service issues. I am not surprised at all that they had no clue regarding the aperture problem.

Sales people may not know, which is why they got one of the tech people to talk to the OP.

If this was at a BestBuy and a seasonal sales person, then perhaps they'd be clueless about the oil spotting issues on the Nikon D600 sensor. But at one time, I worked at a lab that also retailed cameras. Although we at the retail level may not have had inside info about tech problems with the gear, the sales reps certainly knew a lot.

Will the Toyota car sales person know about the TSBs on every model? Probably not. Will the Toyota rep at a convention that reps an entire region know about recurring issues with various models? I would be surprised if they didn't....but the K50 has been off the market long enough, and if Ricoh has a high turnover rate, I suppose it's possible. At least the tech rep didn't feign ignorance!

[reh321]

Sales people may not know, which is why they got one of the tech people to talk to the OP.

That RIcoh USA treats each camera sent in for repairs for this problem on a case by case basis says something to me about the frequency of failure.

Normally I prefer to talk in terms of "Dark Image Syndrome" - "Syndrome" being the word to describe human disease which is initially distinguished by its symptoms; just today another user reported yet another case of DIS.
K-30 / K-50 Aperture Block Failue - Repair Solution available - Page 51 - PentaxForums.com
Yes it is just one more, but pile "just one more" on top of "just one more" ..... on top of "just one more" and soon we're talking about a level of problem not typically seen.

[bladerunner6]

Today (10/26/18) I returned from the Photoplus International Conference in Manhattan. It is a major conference for professional photographers and all who have an interest in photography. All the camera and lens manufacturers were present. and were showing off their wares. The Pentax booth was staffed by 3-4 people who were prepared to discuss their products. I asked two of them what Pentax was doing to address the "aperture block" problem for the K50 camera. I was astounded when they said that they had never heard of it. After I described the symptoms, which consist of major underexposures of photos due to a malfunctioning electromagnet, I was met with blank stares.

I was told to return when the technical expert would be back. When I finally met him and asked about the problem he said he knew of it but that it was a very rare. I'm not sure if he really knew about it or not. Maybe he was just trying to slough me off because he didn't discuss it from a technical standpoint.

I personally experienced the problem on my K50 and discussed it somewhere in this Forum. Others have also talked about the same problem. I had my camera fixed for about $100 and it is still working well. In this Forum we seem to know more about this problem that Pentax. Certainly the Pentax "experts" I talked to were largely unaware of this problem.

Could it be that the aperture block problem has been blown out of proportion in this Forum, and that it is, in fact, a minor problem involving a few lemons? What say ye, learned Pentaxians?

Aperture block fail is a real problem but it is inherently over discussed on this forum. Take a look at the postings about this and you will find a large number of comments come from a few users that have had bad experiences. I am not saying they have not failures but it is way less common than you would get from reading these forum comments.

Why do I say that? Because people with failures are way more likely to respond than people with working cameras.

How many times have you eaten at a restaurant in your life? I ask rhetorically of course. I have been on my own for 32 years, figure once a week, 1664 times.

What percentage of the time when the service is bad enough to complain that I actually do? I will be very generous towards the opposing argument and say that I have had 10 bad experiences (really only seven-but I will count some just "Meh" experiences in the total) and I complained seven times. So I complained 70% time.

How many times have a I gone out of the way to compliment the manager when I have had good service? Again, I will be generous towards the opposing argument I and say six times, but most of those times were when I just bumped into the owner of a neighborhood place and told him I liked the meal the last time we were there. So (6/1654)(100)=0.36%

(70/0.36)=194. So I am 194 times more likely to report a failure than a success to a restaurant manager.

I work for a major auto parts supplier. We sell parts to many major companies and they go into millions and millions of vehicles each year. We get customer failures back that we have to investigate. I asked a couple of guys that have been at this company for well over 20 years and they said they can think of two times they have gotten parts in for investigation because they have lasted so long.(It might have been only one time, both of their recollections seemed pretty similar).

Again, I will be generous towards the opposing argument and say we get in something like 50 investigations a year and while it has been more than 20 years for these gentlemen, I will round it to that also.

(20)(50)=1000 investigations

1000/2=500. We are 500 times more likely to get a customer inquiry on a failure than a success.

I can go on with examples but I do feel I have made my point clear.

Yes, the failures do happen but I would say the data shows it is in the single digits percent wise, at most. And if it does failures, there are steps that can be taken.

Buying the extended warranty which gives you a free cleaning gives and three years of coverage. Buying with a good credit card can give you one or two more years of warranty.

Buying the camera properly would help a great many people avoid an issue. So the end percentage that is affected is really low.

And of course, while I don’t guarantee it to work after the warranty is exhausted, a polite customer will get more with honey than with vinegar.

And of course, the K-30 is now six years old. Some failure with age must be expected.

So yes it does occur and I would say it does occur more than people might expect. But it absolutely isn’t the epidemic some make it out to be.

[photogem]

Today (10/26/18) I returned from the Photoplus International Conference in Manhattan. It is a major conference for professional photographers and all who have an interest in photography. All the camera and lens manufacturers were present. and were showing off their wares. The Pentax booth was staffed by 3-4 people who were prepared to discuss their products. I asked two of them what Pentax was doing to address the "aperture block" problem for the K50 camera. I was astounded when they said that they had never heard of it. After I described the symptoms, which consist of major underexposures of photos due to a malfunctioning electromagnet, I was met with blank stares.

Well, the chance is that they really didn't know because in modern days people are suddenly working in fields they have ZERO experience about.
A young friend in the family having worked in a huge company as management expert in the sales department changed to another company. Now he sells cars.
He had as much experience in cars as the average cardriver. Now is is on of the top salesmen there but.. he actually hasn't a real clue about cars, only figures in his head. So the blank stares might stem from similar lack of real experience.

I was told to return when the technical expert would be back. When I finally met him and asked about the problem he said he knew of it but that it was a very rare. I'm not sure if he really knew about it or not. Maybe he was just trying to slough me off because he didn't discuss it from a technical standpoint.

Well, it is not rare at all and all true experts do know about this!

I personally experienced the problem on my K50 and discussed it somewhere in this Forum. Others have also talked about the same problem. I had my camera fixed for about $100 and it is still working well. In this Forum we seem to know more about this problem that Pentax. Certainly the Pentax "experts" I talked to were largely unaware of this problem.

They have to be unaware. That's all.

Could it be that the aperture block problem has been blown out of proportion in this Forum, and that it is, in fact, a minor problem involving a few lemons? What say ye, learned Pentaxians?

Sadly is is a major problem and I hope for Pentax/Ricoh that they really did solve it, otherwise it is HARAKIRI AHOY!
Dark times ahead, shutters down. Would be too bad.


On ebay Switzerland, Germany and Austria aperture-damaged K30's and K50's show up once a week at least (and I am understating!)
The danger that many which are offered as functioning but having been repaired by using the stupid filing method is there as well, so final exodus ahoy in those cases.


One can see how many China-made green solenoids have been sold on ebay (many). All the sudden ebay is full of offers of green solenoids.

I would estimate that at least 25% of all K30 and K50 have developed this problem. But many just throw it away, as far outside warranty.

Amazon is full of complaints. Many of them might be Pentax-bashers. Too bad.


The problem now is: Some management upper head once made the choice to handle it quietly. They had no idea that those f....ing green solenoids would cause this problem. So once they chose to go this way it was too late. So best to accept it and also to remember:

there are quite a few Nikons which suffer the same problem, why it is not as much public, no idea, but also Pentax users seem to help each other for solving problems in a more intelligent way then Ricoh did.

In the German Pentaxians forum a survey of members showed:

62% of K30 users had failed solenoids
43% of K50 users had failed solenoids

My own K30 and my own K50 have failed, as well as 2 x K30's in family

So I don't agree with the figures of bladerunner6 at all because here we actually deal with a series problem!
This is different to normal aging and failure. The green China solenoid is faulty! PERIOD!

I do know this because I have studied it!

And saying:

Aperture block fail is a real problem but it is inherently over discussed on this forum.

with all due respect but this to me is total nonsense! Kind of an imaginary slapping all those who actually had to deal with it into their face.

[ThorSanchez]

Maybe Pentax never acknowledged the "problem" because from the analysis of parts sold to their repair techs, there never was a problem.

What part of "very rare" is it you guys don't understand?

What I understand is that I had this problem with a two-year-old camera I spent almost $1000 on and Pentax' response was "put it in a box along with $200, mail it off to Precision and in two months you'll get it back."

If this were my company I'd make sure customer service was better. At least the messaging should be better. That if there was a perceived problem of this magnitude I'd offer up an explanation that they're only seeing this on (making up numbers here) 3% of K-30/50s sold, they're sorry, but it is an unusual case. Instead it's "what, no problems, nothing to see here."

I think if Chevy or Ford had a problem that only effected a relatively small percentage of cars sold but it required an out-of-warranty fix costing 20-25% of the purchase price there'd be a bit of an uproar.

[bladerunner6]

Well, the chance is that they really didn't know because in modern days people are suddenly working in fields they have ZERO experience about.
A young friend in the family having worked in a huge company as management expert in the sales department changed to another company. Now he sells cars.
He had as much experience in cars as the average cardriver. Now is is on of the top salesmen there but.. he actually hasn't a real clue about cars, only figures in his head. So the blank stares might stem from similar lack of real experience.




If he is an expert then he was lying. Period!




The have to be unaware. That's all.




Sadly is is a major problem and I hope for Pentax/Ricoh that they really did solve it, otherwise it is HARAKIRI AHOY!
Dark times ahead, shutters down. Would be too bad.


On ebay Switzerland, Germany and Austria aperture-damaged K30's and K50's show up once a week at least (and I am understating!)
The danger that many which are offered as functioning but having been repaired by using the stupid filing method is there as well, so final exodus ahoy in those cases.


One can see how many China-made green solenoids have been sold on ebay (many). All the sudden ebay is full of offers of green solenoids.

I would estimate that at least 25% of all K30 and K50 have developed this problem. But many just throw it away, as far outside warranty.

Amazon is full of complaints. Many of them might be Pentax-bashers. Too bad.


The problem now is: Some management upper head once made the choice to handle it quietly. They had no idea that those f....ing green solenoids would cause this problem. So once they chose to go this way it was too late. So best to accept it and also to remember:

there are quite a few Nikons which suffer the same problem, why it is not as much public, no idea, but also Pentax users seem to help each other for solving problems in a more intelligent way then Ricoh did.

In the German Pentaxians forum a survey of members showed:

62% of K30 users had failed solenoids
43% of K50 users had failed solenoids

My own K30 and my own K50 have failed, as well as 2 x K30's in family

So I don't agree with the figures of bladerunner6 at all because here we actually deal with a series problem!
This is different to normal aging and failure. The green China solenoid is faulty! PERIOD!

I do know this because I have studied it!

And saying:


with all due respect but this is total nonsense! It seems to me you are "in the Pentax business" so I understand, but it would actually be the same silly head into sand reaction which makes users really upset. And rightly so!

First of all, saying the gentleman from Pentax is lying is not fair. Ricoh has seen the number of cameras coming in for repair and has some idea of what is going on.

Also, you talk about the cameras failing in your family. That is totally unscientific. I have had three of the cameras a K-S1, a K-50 and a K-70. None of those have failed. Right now I have the K-70 and the K-50 (I don't need three cameras) and my K50 is nearly four years old and doing fine. But I don't say the failure rate is zero based on my experiences.

And all your other statements about Amazon, eBay, whatever are unscientific. In regards to eBay, yeah, I would sell my bad gear on eBay and keep my good gear. So of course you will see a disproportionate number of failed cameras. My wife's Honda has more miles than my 2012 Focus but if we were to sell a car it would be my citrus Ford and not her wonderfully reliable Honda.

I noticed you did not comment about my statements about a few select people posting and how people complain way more than they compliment. So it appears you agree with that. You also didn't comment about the importance of buying a camera properly with the right protection, so you appear to agree with that. And you didn't comment about a few select people constantly posting. Again, you seem to agree with that. Same thing about my comments about honey and vinegar and aging cameras.

Qui tacet consentire videtur

And lets look at the survey this forum did:

• Pentaxforums emails 5000 users.
• Puts the poll in the forum and on social media
• Gets over 400 responses
• Puts the results on the home page of a website that gets 5 million page views a month
• It is up for nearly two years so far
• People link and refer back to the article
• The whole article gets a total of 27 responses
• And only 13 of those comments were about people's individual failures

That certainly does not say there is a 25% failure rate. Not even remotely. I agree with the one poster in the comments section that the upper limit would be 6% failure, which is I agree way too high but not 25% you pull out of the air. And smart buying of the cameras can make that failure rate pretty manageable for the user.

This forum has about 80000 users. The cameras involved are pretty affordable and popular, so there are clearly thousands and thousands of them used here. So there should be thousands of reports of failures here but there aren't.

Here is another way to look at the issue. Pentax's production of the K-1 is something on the order of 7000 per month. The best data I can find suggests a 16-20% share for full frame. I will be generous towards photogem and say that the FF has 25% for Pentax. That means 3X APSC camera sales which would be 21,000/month. The cameras involved are most affordable in the lineup so for the sake of convenience I will say they sell at the rate of 10,000 per month, slightly less than half of total APSC sales. The K-30 was announced in May 2012 so I will again be generous towards photogem and say it has been six years so 6X12X10000=720000 cameras sold in that period.

So out of these hundreds of thousands of cameras sold when we have the internet that allows you to complain about everything to everyone we have this level of feedback? I see nothing that says there are 25% of these cameras failing.

You claimed to have studied the issue but I see you just pull anecdotal data that is inherently unreliable.

I can certainly say I studied the issue too. I know that people complain far more than they compliment and you agree with that. I point out the number of failures being reported here is trivial compared to the number of users.

And I am certainly not "in the Pentax business". I look at data, which I have elaborated on here in multiple ways. I also look at how people should make smart decisions when buying gear and I point out irrefutably that people disproportionately complain versus compliment.

And honestly, I wanted to complain to the moderators about your language towards me in your posting but I wanted to respond this morning before the rest of my family got up.