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09-25-2008, 06:58 PM   #1
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Nice price drop on K20D!

I checked BuyDig and noticed that the price on the K20D (body only) has dropped from $979 to $947. WOO HOO!
See for yourself:
Pentax K20D 14.6MP Digital SLR Body (lens not included) | BuyDig.com, The Internet's Digital Superstore

I am getting pretty close to pulling the trigger on this deal. Anybody want to buy my K10D?

Heather

09-26-2008, 01:58 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by hwblanks Quote
I checked BuyDig and noticed that the price on the K20D (body only) has dropped from $979 to $947. WOO HOO!
See for yourself:
Pentax K20D 14.6MP Digital SLR Body (lens not included) | BuyDig.com, The Internet's Digital Superstore

I am getting pretty close to pulling the trigger on this deal. Anybody want to buy my K10D?

Heather
Let me know when it drops to $700. Thanks
09-26-2008, 04:21 AM   #3
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Save your money and buy the next K30D(?). I think the difference from K20D to K30D will be alot bigger than K10D --> K20D.

I will buy a K-m/K2000 before I trade in one of my K10D's for a K20D. Wait maybe 12-18 months and you will have a brand new Pentax
09-26-2008, 07:57 AM   #4
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Still over priced

QuoteOriginally posted by hwblanks Quote
I checked BuyDig and noticed that the price on the K20D (body only) has dropped from $979 to $947. WOO HOO!
See for yourself:
Pentax K20D 14.6MP Digital SLR Body (lens not included) | BuyDig.com, The Internet's Digital Superstore

I am getting pretty close to pulling the trigger on this deal. Anybody want to buy my K10D?

Heather
At least for somebody like me that has a K10D. I admire Pentax/Hoya for sticking to their game plan though. It seems they are selling enough units to meet projections so why drop the profit level.

The aggressive pricing of the Nikon D90 at $999 makes the K20D look like it's out of line by about $150 if you look at it from the average consumer's point of view and start comparing all the specs alone with brand acceptance.

09-26-2008, 08:22 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by hwblanks Quote
I checked BuyDig and noticed that the price on the K20D (body only) has dropped from $979 to $947. WOO HOO!
See for yourself:
Pentax K20D 14.6MP Digital SLR Body (lens not included) | BuyDig.com, The Internet's Digital Superstore

I am getting pretty close to pulling the trigger on this deal. Anybody want to buy my K10D?

Heather
Good for you ... I've been thinking of doing the same. It looks like it will be at least 10-12 months before a K30 is out. Go for it. I feel very hampered by the fact that I can't shoot ISO 800 on my K10D... well of course I can but i hate all the pics.

Good luck in your decision
09-26-2008, 09:25 AM   #6
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I may actually have a buyer for my K10D. Hopefully, he'll be getting back with me pretty soon on it.

I do understand the idea of waiting until the K30 comes out, but we don't have a date of when that will be. I'm not one of those who can afford to upgrade with every generation, but the K20 is a lot better in some areas than my K10 that to me, it's worth upgrading. With the type of shooting I do, I'm not terribly concerned about FPS and the AF works just fine in most cases. I've recently worked some overtime at work, so I have some extra money, so that, along with the sale of the K10 will make the K20 attainable for me. After this one, I probably won't upgrade until at least the K40 or later, depending on what Pentax does in the next couple of years or so.

Heather
09-26-2008, 09:40 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by kunik Quote
I feel very hampered by the fact that I can't shoot ISO 800 on my K10D... well of course I can but i hate all the pics.
I'm looking at getting a used K10d. Is that because of the reported noise issue? I recently bought a K200d which has the same sensor I understand, but wondering if the ISO noise issue is the same for the K200d?
09-26-2008, 09:55 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrpackerguy Quote
I'm looking at getting a used K10d. Is that because of the reported noise issue? I recently bought a K200d which has the same sensor I understand, but wondering if the ISO noise issue is the same for the K200d?
If you are referring to the "pattern noise" in the K10, it should be mostly eliminated due to the switch from the nucore ADC to the current 14bit ADC.
Not to mention the "sample variation" that seems to occur between sensor samples.

09-26-2008, 02:19 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrpackerguy Quote
I'm looking at getting a used K10d. Is that because of the reported noise issue? I recently bought a K200d which has the same sensor I understand, but wondering if the ISO noise issue is the same for the K200d?
There are basically two issues. One is that, seeing as they squeeze 10 million pixels onto a sensor that is the same size and same basic underlying technology (Sony CCD) as the 6 million pixel K100D, each pixel is smaller, and thus indeed, the K10D *will* have more noise at some level than the K100D. However, as is easily demonstrated by anyone who has actually done the experiment, this increase in noise is only visible if you actually blow up both pictures to 100%, which is to say - if you blow up the K10D image much larger than the K100D. Size both images the same way and the K10D simply does *not* have more noise than the K100D, and this can be verified both by inspection and by the statistical analysis of the RAW files that has been undertaken by several folks over on dpreview. The K200D is exactly the same in this way - blow the image to 100% and it looks worse than the K100D; view images at the same size and it is does not.

The other issue is something specific to the K10D and its analog-to-digital converter and/or other elements of the image processing engine. The issue is the way shadow noise often lines itself up into vertical "banding", especially when you shoot underexposed and then push in PP. This is supposedly not nearly as much of an issue with later model K10D's, and the K200D appears to be similar to later K10D's in this respect.

I can just tell you that on upgrading from the DS to the K200D, my pictures got better. They could be considered noisier only if you view at 100% - which is to say, if you blow the K200D image up bigger. Viewed at the same size, there is no visible difference in noise, and the K200D clearly holds more detail (as should be expected). I've been shooting in jazz clubs for several years now, and there is no question in my mind that images I get from the K200D are as clean as and more detailed than those I got from the DS. Here's some recent K200D shots at ISO 1600, all underexposed a stop and pushed in PP, meaning they are really the equivalent of ISO 3200:





09-26-2008, 02:37 PM   #10
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This is why I'm thinking of an upgrade... I did everything I could to save this photo.
300mm
F2.8
1/60

ISO 1600 PP +1
=ISO 3200
09-26-2008, 04:51 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by kunik Quote
This is why I'm thinking of an upgrade... I did everything I could to save this photo.
Wow, that's some pretty extreme banding in both directions. I hear that horizontal banding is often associated with using the battery grip - did you have that attached? Do most of your high ISO images look like this? Hard to believe this is the same sensor as the one in my K200D that took the pictures I posted just above yours.

I wish I knew more about what is different on the newer K10D's and the K200D that makes them supposedly less susceptible to that. I've heard that some people who have sent their K10D in for service had it come back upgraded in some way that eliminated this, making me think it's actually a fairly small change, even firmware-related.

BTW, when pushing exposure in PP, I generally also apply a curve to hold down the shadow values while pushing the highlights more. So a typical image might actually have the shadows pushed a little less than a stop, and the highlights pushed a bit more. This has the effect of keeping shadow noise dark enough to not be so noticeable, and it also increase the contrast of the image, which is often a good thing in itself. I actually apply very little NR during PP.
09-27-2008, 07:50 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by kunik Quote
This is why I'm thinking of an upgrade... I did everything I could to save this photo.
300mm
F2.8
1/60

ISO 1600 PP +1
=ISO 3200
What about turning it to B&W?
09-27-2008, 08:25 AM   #13
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Of course I agree with limitations of K10D as stated. On the other hand, this did not take too much work, and I did not bother with the really obvious vertical banding on the right side since that too would be easy enough to mitigate. About ten minutes total...

Probably does not measure up with expectations. Still, I see this picture as far from unsaveable.

Actually, Heather, if you are serious, I probably would consider a backup K10D...

Woof
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09-27-2008, 09:42 AM   #14
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You should checkout Amazon.com. They seem to consistantly beat these other places in price.
09-27-2008, 09:55 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by kkoether Quote
You should checkout Amazon.com. They seem to consistantly beat these other places in price.
I buy from Amazon whenever I can. As a prime member (costs me just a few dollars a year) I can get free shipping. Amazon's prices do indeed almost always match those of the best alternatives like B&H or Adorama. And Amazon has a policy that, if they drop their price on a product within 30 days, you can ask for a refund of the difference. I did this when I bought the Pentax 50-135 and ended up getting something like $100 back. I got this tip from someone in this forum, by the way, so I am happy to pass it on to others.

I have had great service from B&H and Adorama, by the way, and I use them with some frequency too. If I notice that Amazon doesn't have the product I'm buying in its own inventory, it's usually the case that the product is being sold through Amazon but actually coming from Adorama. Then I'll just buy direct from Adorama.

Will
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