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11-29-2018, 06:49 AM   #16
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The FUJI mirorrorless cameras are tempting, they'd make a nice pairing with a more traditional DSLR like Pentax's system. The only drawback, of course, is two different sets of lenses - though if you use the cameras for different roles you can probably avoid most duplication. That would let someone focus on the strengths of both systems.

11-29-2018, 07:53 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by aaacb Quote
All current Pentax DSLRs have a good viewfinder: full coverage optical, bright (pentaprism), and good magnification. That's the great part about it, you can have the "entry level" k70 and still get a great viewfinder (as well as many other nice things).

Compared to the fuji e3, I also think the KP is the closest, also price-wise. The pentax kp has ibis and weather sealing, but it lacks 4k video, so it really depends on what you need (I for one basically never shoot video). Features aside, I tend to like how Pentax feels in use, but I haven't tried a Fuji for more than a few minutes at a time so I can't compare.

I've shot plenty of sports and action with the k3ii, which is an older model, I concur with LXNights about the KP being perfectly fine for sports. Here's one of a few threads with sports photos on here on PF Sports photography - single images - Page 31 - PentaxForums.com
Hi aaacb,
I never shoot video neither.
IBIS and weather sealing are a must, XE3 does not have it.

I never felt that not having stabilisation is a problem with my XE1. Pictures are allways sharp.

I have to say that I never used a big zoom.

I'll receive my 20-210 zoom and a 135mm optics and then, may be I'll miss the stabilisation.
11-29-2018, 08:27 AM - 1 Like   #18
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People have already heavily mentioned the difference in the EVF, construction, lens sizes, and availability. Two things that should be further emphasized is the lack of IBIS in the X-T[x] series and the AF capabilities.

I shoot with a X-T3 alongside my K-1 so I was used to IBIS and having stability with super slow shutter speeds. When shooting with the X-T3 I always have to think twice about speeds like 1/20 which would be a no brained on the K-1. Thankfully those use cases are pretty slim for me. You may find yourself in a different boat so keep that in mind.

Second, the AF capabilities of the X-T3 are wonderfully insane compared to the K-1. The tracking capabilities, burst rates, and accuracy are simply outstanding. I wouldn’t say it’s perfect-perfect-perfect but it’s so far ahead of what Pentax offers that Pentax’s capabilities look seriously mundane and outdated. Also gone are the front/back focus errors. I can photograph kids running ... running!! ... toward me and darn near every frame is sharp. How Fuji does that is beyond my comprehension. Oh, and the buffer doesn’t overflow and slow down the photographer.

If you aren’t shooting action then the K-1 will probably blow away a lot of what any Fuji can do. The sensor in the K-1 camera is simply amazing! Color, dynamic range, noise, tones ... Pentax seriously hit a home run with the K-1. Match that performance with their lens designs and, like some have said here already, you are approaching medium format territory.

Lastly, think of print sizes. If you print big, like 40x60 inch posters then the extra megapixels in the K-1 will help you a lot. I printed a 15x60 panorama from my K-1 and that is starting to push the limits of the K-1 sensor. Otherwise, 12x18 inch prints look superb on the Fuji X-T3.
11-29-2018, 08:33 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
I think you might mean the Fuji XT-3, which is listed as their current top mirrorless APS-C model. The K-1, as has been said, is a completely different animal. It is not of APS-C format, but the larger full-frame sensor. Your image size in the frame using a lens of the same focal length will not be the same. The full frame (FF) sensor will present a wider field of view (VOF). It also has an optical VF instead of an electronic one, so it is not mirrorless. The camera will also of necessity be larger and heavier. There are some FF mirrorless designs, the most prominent, I believe, are by Sony. Many people own cameras of both formats due to each having certain advantages.

Fuji specializes in mirrorless APS-C designs, while Pentax specializes in APS-C models of DSLR, which means having an optical viewfinder as apposed to an electronic one. Again, each has its own advantages. With an EVF, you get an electronic representation of reality, while with an OVF you are looking through the lens directly at reality. The EVF can be electronically manipulated, including illumination, or zooming, since it is a representation. With the OVF, it is what it is, but it is reality. Because of the OVF assembly, APS-C DSLR cameras are generally larger and heavier somewhat, compared to mirrorless designs.

As far as changing to Pentax as your over-all system, much would depend on whether you have specific shooting interests and what those might be. For instance, if you are much into sports or other action shooting, and do a lot of burst shooting, and continuous AF, the Fuji XT-3 has outstanding specs for that. Its video AF performance will no doubt be better.

But you bring up a more retro design, which of course includes controls. My observation of the XT-3 is its controls are indeed retro, reminiscent of manual-focus 35mm film bodies of the 1970's. I see the shutter speed knob on top, with also an ISO setting knob, and one for exposure comp. Very straight forward, as it was then. But there are disadvantages too. I see the setting jumps are in full stops, while my Pentax DSLR bodies can be set for 1/2 or 1/3 stop jumps. Considerably more sophistication.

The APS-C DSLR closest to being similar size and retro look as the XT-3, offered by Pentax, is the KP. It of course has its OVF. Its VF spec states a magnification of .95x which is better than the .75x of the XT-3. It also has a built-in flash, handy for immediate needs, such as daylight fill flash. Yet it is very close to the same size and weight. About the same dimensions, and 1.5lb. with card and battery vs 1.2lb. for the XT-3. Just as easy to set shutter speed with the KP via the front finger dial, and shown both in the VF and on the rear screen. Actually, with the exclusive Pentax Hyper System, you can instantly change either shutter speed or aperture, using the thumb or finger dials even when in Program mode, which instantly shifts the camera to aperture or shutter priority, and returns to full Program operation with a touch of a button. The KP's controls are exceptionally efficient and offer enormous options. No touch-screen though. Many of us do not prefer such, and with the KP's fine controls it is not needed. As to the weight, depending on lenses, sometimes the Pentax KP DSLR ensemble is equal or lighter than the Fuji XT-3 ensemble. The excellent Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8 tele zoom lens on the KP is at least as light as a Fuji's similar lens on the XT-3. The KP also features in-body image stabilization, which will be in effect with any lens, even very good vintage lenses, some of which can be had at low cost.

So again, much depends on personal shooting needs.
Hi Mikesbike
I am not in sports but sometimes I like to track animals, sometimes birds...
Don't care about touchscreen, I think that I could even live without a touchscreen!
I noticed that sometimes I'd like to have some more accurate settings, like 1/3, 1/2 stops.
Stabilisation? Let's see how mu Fuji behaves with the vintage lens I ordered.
Thank for taking the time to make all those explanations.

---------- Post added 11-29-18 at 08:42 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by runswithsizzers Quote
I have a Fuji X-E2 and a Pentax K-3. For me, the 4 main differences between the two camera systems are:

1. Viewfinders. The optical Pentax pentaprisim viewfinders give a bigger view than most of the electronic viewfinders (EVF) used by Fuji. The Pentax view finder may be brighter if you have a lens with a wide maximum aperture mounted in bright light. As you know from using your X-E1, EVFs can amplify the screen so with a slow lens in poor light, the EVF can be much brighter. The Fuji EVF can also show you an electronic preview of the image including exposure compensation, digital filters, depth of field, white balance, etc. that cannot be displayed on an optical viewfinder.

2. Size and weight. All current production Pentax bodies are significantly larger and heavier than your X-E1 and the X-E3. Even the bigger Fuji X-T1 and X-T2 are quite a bit smaller and lighter than the smallest Pentax.

3. Lenses. Pentax has half a dozen excellent prime lenses in the DA Limited series which are small and light enough to partially offset the big, heavy Pentax bodies, but they are slower than most of the Fuji primes. If you prefer a zoom in the 18-55mm range Pentax offers mostly kit zooms. They are light and affordable, slow maximum apertures, and pretty good image quality, but not in the same league with Fuji's kit zooms. Pentaxes higher quality zooms tend to have wider apertures and/or greater zoom ranges which makes them quite hefty compared to Fuji's most excellent XF 18-55mm F2.8-4. Fuji's offers several prime lenses with f/1.4 maximum apertures and slower versions at F/2.0. Pentax offers very few primes as fast as that. However, few of the Fuji primes include OIS (optical image stabilization), which may be significant because ...

4. Image stabilization. All Pentax bodies include IBIS (in body image stabilization), but most Fujis, including all of the models you mentioned, do not. Fuji does have one model with IBIS, the X-H1. So, if you want image stabilization for most Fujis, you will need to buy Fuji lenses which include it.

There are many other differences which may be minor, or deal-breakers, depending on your needs: Pentax has better battery life, Fuji offers a lot more firmware updates, sometimes providing significant upgrades to older cameras, Pentax may take a little more rough stuff, Fuji make less noise (electronic shutter and no mirror flop), Pentax offers more weather sealed bodies and lenses, and some longer telephotos not offered by Fuji, etc.
Hello runswithsizzers,
Point one, I think I prefer EVF, to help me "work" with the settings - Fuji wins
Poin two, Small size is good, specially if I have only one camera - Fuji has an advantage here, but it is not mandatory.
Point three, how does Fuji behaves with vintage manual lens? You must have a word here. Fuji may lose here.
IBIS, stab, Pentax wins.
Thanks, all information helps.

---------- Post added 11-29-18 at 09:10 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by btnapa Quote
Francisco,

There are lot of factors to consider in determining which system. I am not sure if anyone asked these questions:
1. What type of photography do you do?
2. Do you shoot RAW?
3. What is your budget?
4. Do you have other Fuji bodies or multiple lenses? Switching systems could be costly if you are invested heavily in one and want to switch to another
5. What is the reason for wanting to switch?
These are just a few general questions. We could go into much more detail about the differences in the systems and what they offer vs. the competition.

I happen to have both the K1 and the X-T2. I bought the X-T2 a few months ago mainly to do 4K videos and possibly my still work. I must say that the JPEGs coming off the Fuji are great. The focusing is faster than my K1. I was thinking of letting my entire Pentax system go in favor of switching to all Fuji gear. Now I am not sure if I want to let my K1 go.

K1 is a beast compared to the Fuji. RAW images coming from the K1 are easily in medium format territory in pure image quality.

Pentax has a number of APSc offerings that are in the Fuji class for sensor size. I really like the KP. I have owned a K5IIs and a K3 and the KP is better than both in image quality and ergonomics. Remember, Pentax is an OVF DSLR with TTL focusing utilizing a mirror housing. Fuji cameras are all mirror less with EVFs.

As @clackers called it, if you are happy with APSc image quality, stay with Fuji. If you want to step up to an FF sensor with higher image quality, then a K1 is a bargain priced camera that has no equal. I have owned many Canon FF cameras and shot Nikons too. No Canon can match the K1 and Nikon can match it at higher priced bodies. The only Fuji that can match the image quality of the K1 is their medium format camera which is in a different price category.

I hope I did not "talk too much.," and my comments help you in some way.



I do landscape, nature, water, macro, street, artistic and want to learn portrait.

Photos at sunset and also 7AM. So, a litle bit of everything.

I never shoot raw, but want to try one of these days. Now I do not think about that. Fuji has very good out of the box jpegs. I want to make it the best as possible, before using raw.
I don't know if in the future I will be a raw guy, it takes a lot of time.

My budget is... let's say 5 or 6 hundred. Or a litle bit more. Euros! Used of course.

I have a pancake 23mm from fuji and the 16 - 50 fuji zoom kit, very good. Other than this, I ordered (because my budget in this moment is very tight), one Vivitar 70 - 210 zoom and one Albinar 135, 2.8. I should have bought the 135mm Vivitar, but it's ok. I also ordered a beautiful silver Helios 44, macro tubes and all the necessary adaptors.


I thought about may be buying Pentax because I discovered it and anyway I will buy another camera soon. So that's the time to make a choice.

As I said in other posts, I'd like to have more pixel information, (24MP), but more important is an even better viewfinder than Fuji XE1, and I would like wether sealing.
I think I prefer EVF against OVF.

So, I think it can be XE3, XT2, KP or K70, even if Pentax has no EVF. Or even XT1, no 24MP, but is it so important? I'll save money for glasses. If I buy a XT1, (no 24MP), I am happy and spend no money, seling the XE1 and XM1. And one 16 50 OIS, I have two. XT1 has wether sealing, good EVF, retro looks and I am used to Fuji.


No, you did not talk to much, I am lucky to talk with you, as a owner of good Fuji and Pentax.
I willl decide soon and will post my conclusion here and your help is very good, thanks.

---------- Post added 11-29-18 at 09:19 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
@btnapa- If you like getting good JPEGs right out of the camera, the KP does a remarkable job with these if you implement "Fine Sharpening" in the Custom Image menus. Some test reviews of the camera took notice of this. I usually shoot with the camera set to the default "Bright" Custom Image category, with "Fine Sharpening" activated, and I get excellent results with JPEG images.

PK now is on my list, it's good to know about those features, thank you.


Last edited by Francisco Carneiro; 11-29-2018 at 09:13 AM.
11-29-2018, 09:42 AM - 1 Like   #20
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I don't see high-ISO performance mentioned here. I believe the K-70 and KP both will squarely beat any APS-C camera from Fuji. This seems to be something Pentax does quite well in comparison to other competing brands.
11-29-2018, 10:33 AM   #21
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I haven no experience with Fuji mirrorless - I looked at an Xpro1 once but it didn't feel right in my hands (too light for it's size and I struggled with the viewfinder with my glasses). If you're considering moving from a mirrorless to DSLR you should get to a shop and try a DSLR (Pentax preferably), the optical finder is a huge difference. It sounds like Fuji do some processing in the EVF, which you won't get in a DSLR finder (but might in LiveView), as the 'viewfinder' is fundamental in use of the camera, this might be a deal breaker.
11-29-2018, 10:36 AM   #22
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Fuji, no IBIS

QuoteOriginally posted by 6BQ5 Quote
People have already heavily mentioned the difference in the EVF, construction, lens sizes, and availability. Two things that should be further emphasized is the lack of IBIS in the X-T[x] series and the AF capabilities.

I shoot with a X-T3 alongside my K-1 so I was used to IBIS and having stability with super slow shutter speeds. When shooting with the X-T3 I always have to think twice about speeds like 1/20 which would be a no brained on the K-1. Thankfully those use cases are pretty slim for me. You may find yourself in a different boat so keep that in mind.

Second, the AF capabilities of the X-T3 are wonderfully insane compared to the K-1. The tracking capabilities, burst rates, and accuracy are simply outstanding. I wouldn’t say it’s perfect-perfect-perfect but it’s so far ahead of what Pentax offers that Pentax’s capabilities look seriously mundane and outdated. Also gone are the front/back focus errors. I can photograph kids running ... running!! ... toward me and darn near every frame is sharp. How Fuji does that is beyond my comprehension. Oh, and the buffer doesn’t overflow and slow down the photographer.

If you aren’t shooting action then the K-1 will probably blow away a lot of what any Fuji can do. The sensor in the K-1 camera is simply amazing! Color, dynamic range, noise, tones ... Pentax seriously hit a home run with the K-1. Match that performance with their lens designs and, like some have said here already, you are approaching medium format territory.

Lastly, think of print sizes. If you print big, like 40x60 inch posters then the extra megapixels in the K-1 will help you a lot. I printed a 15x60 panorama from my K-1 and that is starting to push the limits of the K-1 sensor. Otherwise, 12x18 inch prints look superb on the Fuji X-T3.

Hello, thanks for the consistent post.

The lack of IBIS on Fuji is afterall what worries me the most. I can't wait to test it with the vintage lens I'm waiting for. If I would change Fuji for another brand, (if I would keep only one camera), it would be for that reason, I guess.

---------- Post added 11-29-18 at 10:54 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
I don't see high-ISO performance mentioned here. I believe the K-70 and KP both will squarely beat any APS-C camera from Fuji. This seems to be something Pentax does quite well in comparison to other competing brands.

Hum...
That is a very strong point of Fuji, in the real world, at least the XE1 and XM1. Those I know. With these cameras I can shoot by night, no flash, outdoors, 1600 3200 very sharp abd clear.

---------- Post added 11-29-18 at 10:57 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by johnha Quote
I haven no experience with Fuji mirrorless - I looked at an Xpro1 once but it didn't feel right in my hands (too light for it's size and I struggled with the viewfinder with my glasses). If you're considering moving from a mirrorless to DSLR you should get to a shop and try a DSLR (Pentax preferably), the optical finder is a huge difference. It sounds like Fuji do some processing in the EVF, which you won't get in a DSLR finder (but might in LiveView), as the 'viewfinder' is fundamental in use of the camera, this might be a deal breaker.

Hi johnha,
I agree, I have to go to a shop with Fujis and Pentaxes
The processing in EVF is a great feature for me.

---------- Post added 11-29-18 at 10:59 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by TER-OR Quote
The FUJI mirorrorless cameras are tempting, they'd make a nice pairing with a more traditional DSLR like Pentax's system. The only drawback, of course, is two different sets of lenses - though if you use the cameras for different roles you can probably avoid most duplication. That would let someone focus on the strengths of both systems.
Hi TER-OR,
Agree. Having both worlds...!

Last edited by Francisco Carneiro; 11-29-2018 at 10:43 AM.
11-29-2018, 11:13 AM   #23
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For what it's worth, here is my take on your query:

I do own a Fuji XE-2 and love that little camera as a "companion" for my K5 and K3 cameras when I need to quickly access a ready-to-shoot landscape cam.
I have been a Pentax user for almost 40 years and would not trade any of my present Pentax gear, K7, K5 and K3,, (OVF and DSLR) for a mirrorless though.
As for using a Fuji for the type of shooting I do: this would mean acquiring a whole new, and expensive, set of lenses and, I think, the XE-2 wouldn't cut it anyway. I'd have to go XT-3, not the XE-3, or something like that.
If you prefer the mirrorless system, I'd say invest in Fuji lenses.
If you think a DSLR might be good for you, then Pentax sure is a great choice ... then you might think of selling your Fuji gear to fund a new system or ... if you can afford it, keep the Fuji and jump right in the Pentax world.
Cheers!

11-29-2018, 11:27 AM - 1 Like   #24
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Pentax in body image stabilization is a wonderful feature. Often I don't get the shot with my Fuji -T2 because it has no IBIS.

No matter what Fuji says, none of their APS-C cameras have the IQ that comes up to the level of the full frame Pentax K-1 and K-1 II. If you shoot Pentax in the Pixel Shift mode, then the Pentax IQ advantage over Fuji x is even greater.

I've got the perfect set up for my style of photography. FUJI x APS-C cameras for times where small/light/quick is critical. Pentax full frame for my serious/deliberate photography.

By the way, I often use my Pentax K mount lenses on my Fuji bodies. I use a variety of adapters (some cheap, some very pricey). They all seem to work pretty good.
11-29-2018, 11:30 AM   #25
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As a new person in this forum, I would like to thank all the members for being so reactive and for sharing their knowledge and point of view.

I carefully read all the posts.

You know what? After all I'm very happy with my old and modest XE-1. Now that I know a litle more about other options, and I also know the limitations of what I have, here is what I think and feel. It is not yet a decisison but a very strong possibility.


- Even with the XE1 it's possible to make very good photos. I have lots of fun with it.
- I have a small budget.
- I'd like to have 24MP but it is not so important. My best photos don't need to be more pixeled.
- I know already the Fuji menus.
- I like the small size of Fuji.
- I like the retro design of Fuji, more than Pentax.

- I need a better good viewfinder, EVF!
- I need a wether sealed camera
- I am still learnig how to shoot in manual mode, I am a beginner.
- Even some limitations can be used for artistic purposes
- I really like the colours and simulations of Fuji - it doesn't mean it's better, I don't feel the need to change it.
- I should save money to invest in lens.

- The XT1 will have some limitations, so I stay away of them. I don't care. There are many things it can do, and there is no limitations from that.
- I already have some Fujinon lens, they are good
- Fuji works with other lens, with adapters. I HOPE IT WILL NOT BE VERY INCONVENIENT NOT TO HAVE STABILISATION.
- I am the photographer, not the camera. Camera has not conscience, taste, heart. I have. I will adapt to it. I need a camera that sees better than me, a nice tool, it will help me.



Well, the XT-1 suits all the demands, except for IBIS. Not yet a decision, it can also be a XE3. I don't know if the viewfinder is better than XE1, it is not wether sealing but it has incredible autofocus, is faster and has 24MP. I can allways change. More to come. I will decide soon.
What do you think?
Anyway, I will keep an open eye to the Pentax bodys and will follow the evolutions. I think that K1 is an amazing camera.


Thank you!

---------- Post added 11-29-18 at 11:39 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
For what it's worth, here is my take on your query:

I do own a Fuji XE-2 and love that little camera as a "companion" for my K5 and K3 cameras when I need to quickly access a ready-to-shoot landscape cam.
I have been a Pentax user for almost 40 years and would not trade any of my present Pentax gear, K7, K5 and K3,, (OVF and DSLR) for a mirrorless though.
As for using a Fuji for the type of shooting I do: this would mean acquiring a whole new, and expensive, set of lenses and, I think, the XE-2 wouldn't cut it anyway. I'd have to go XT-3, not the XE-3, or something like that.
If you prefer the mirrorless system, I'd say invest in Fuji lenses.
If you think a DSLR might be good for you, then Pentax sure is a great choice ... then you might think of selling your Fuji gear to fund a new system or ... if you can afford it, keep the Fuji and jump right in the Pentax world.
Cheers!

May be I keep the Fuji and I will jump to Pentax later!
For now it is not a priority.
I still have a lot to learn to extract all the Fuji juice.
I believe Pentax is fantastic, may be better, but it is not sso important.

It is not allways important to have the best, even if you have the money for that,

and it doesn't mean that you are not very exigent.

Last edited by Francisco Carneiro; 11-29-2018 at 11:45 AM.
11-29-2018, 11:41 AM   #26
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If you shoot color photos, you might want to try making HDR images with your current Fuji xe-1 and xe-2.

Shoot JPGs using ISO bracketing set to +-1 (Fuji x cameras are the only camera that I'm aware of that shoots ISO brackets). Set your ISO dial to 400 for this. Then combine the images using whichever HDR software you prefer (I use PHotoMatix Pro 6, 64 bit). With a bit of practice, I think that you'll find your color photos will improve noticeably.
11-29-2018, 11:41 AM - 1 Like   #27
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...and I say to myself : let's make some nice photos!!

---------- Post added 11-29-18 at 11:43 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
.
If you shoot color photos, you might want to try making HDR images with your current Fuji xe-1 and xe-2.

Shoot JPGs using ISO bracketing set to +-1 (Fuji x cameras are the only camera that I'm aware of that shoots ISO brackets). Set your ISO dial to 400 for this. Then combine the images using whichever HDR software you prefer (I use PHotoMatix Pro 6, 64 bit). With a bit of practice, I think that you'll find your color photos will improve noticeably.


wow, very nice tip, I will try it, thanks!
11-29-2018, 12:07 PM   #28
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_DSF0081.jpg
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11-29-2018, 12:09 PM - 1 Like   #29
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some photos of XE1

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11-29-2018, 12:10 PM - 1 Like   #30
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Everybody that has replied to you have given you a lot of information to think about. Now I have one more suggestion that might help in making a decision.

I do not know where you live other than in Europe some place. My suggestion is to see if you have any camera stores close around you that rents cameras and lenses. Contact them and ask if they rent Pentax. If they do, rent a KP and a mid range zoom and give it a try. Being able to hold a camera in a store is one thing but, being able to use it for a week can be a game changer in deciding to buy a different brand of camera then what you already own.
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