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| 12-07-2018, 01:38 PM | #136 |
 Originally posted by grispie  gorgeous picture showcasing what this lens can do..!   Originally posted by Francisco Carneiro Hello, Could you please give an evaluation to those three cameras I choosed, in terms of DOF? If you feel like doing it. In general, if you are looking for thinner DoF then you need to get into the largest sensor format you can afford, like full frame, and get the largest aperture lenses available. Mitakon makes a series called Speedmaster with very low f-stop numbers, like f/0.95. The lenses are all manually focused and can be challenging to focus. The DoF is so thin that any wobble from you and/or your subject can push or pull features out of focus. That's what other people say. Personally I do not have these lenses. Google it. You will hear many user stories. Some love it. Some don't. The problem with those lenses is compromises were made to make the lens small and affordable. Those compromises keep the lens from being very sharp at the edges and borders at smaller apertures, like f/4. Really, you must think of what compromises you want. Do you want even performance across the lens? Then forget the f/0.95 lens. Do you want shallow depth of field? Then forget about even performance across the frame. Do you want both in one package? Then get ready to spend a serious amount of money. Personally, I like small packaged systems. The K-1 with it's big heavy zooms were too much for me. If it could focus and burst like the Fuji X-T3 then I'd keep the zooms. Instead, I'm keeping it for my small Limited series primes. Fuji's APS-C is still a little chunky for me but the performance of the body and the excellent lenses is worth it. My ideal size is something like Oly M10. It's small, light, and very sharp. I have my small zooms and primes and shooting wide open at f/2.8 or f/1.4 in u4/3 is probably as shallow as I want to go. Here are some shots from my Fuji X-T3 and the small XF50mm f/2 lens. Shot at f/4.  Shot at f/2.8  _DSF4231_ISO160_f2.8_50 mm by Boris, on Flickr Shot at f/4.5  That's enough DoF play for me.  | |
| 12-07-2018, 02:11 PM | #137 |
| 12-07-2018, 02:34 PM | #138 |
| Originally posted by 6BQ5 These are gorgeous pictures showing what the photographer can do. I'm not too crazy about extremely thin DoF where only the eyelashes are in focus and everything like the nose and ears is soft. In general, if you are looking for thinner DoF then you need to get into the largest sensor format you can afford, like full frame, and get the largest aperture lenses available. Mitakon makes a series called Speedmaster with very low f-stop numbers, like f/0.95. The lenses are all manually focused and can be challenging to focus. The DoF is so thin that any wobble from you and/or your subject can push or pull features out of focus. That's what other people say. Personally I do not have these lenses. Google it. You will hear many user stories. Some love it. Some don't. The problem with those lenses is compromises were made to make the lens small and affordable. Those compromises keep the lens from being very sharp at the edges and borders at smaller apertures, like f/4. Really, you must think of what compromises you want. Do you want even performance across the lens? Then forget the f/0.95 lens. Do you want shallow depth of field? Then forget about even performance across the frame. Do you want both in one package? Then get ready to spend a serious amount of money. Personally, I like small packaged systems. The K-1 with it's big heavy zooms were too much for me. If it could focus and burst like the Fuji X-T3 then I'd keep the zooms. Instead, I'm keeping it for my small Limited series primes. Fuji's APS-C is still a little chunky for me but the performance of the body and the excellent lenses is worth it. My ideal size is something like Oly M10. It's small, light, and very sharp. I have my small zooms and primes and shooting wide open at f/2.8 or f/1.4 in u4/3 is probably as shallow as I want to go. Here are some shots from my Fuji X-T3 and the small XF50mm f/2 lens. Shot at f/4. Shot at f/2.8 _DSF4231_ISO160_f2.8_50 mm by Boris, on Flickr Shot at f/4.5 That's enough DoF play for me. I am not a DOF junky, believe me, to tell the truth I learned the word a few days ago... I just wanted to have one more parameter in my silly list. Until now, I am sure about one only thing : I am going to put the KP out of my list - with all the respect. It is not 100% rational, but it just doesn't ring my heart. I will not take the pentax route. At least at my level. Dear Pentax fans, please forgive me. The final choice is getting closer. ---------- Post added 12-07-18 at 02:38 PM ---------- It's not without reason that these cameras are together. I can't imagine liking one without liking the other. My kind of camera. - "Oly" OMD 5 II with kit lens or prime . Very Kute! Love at first sight ------------------------------------------------- 4,5 stars . Very small---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5 stars . Very good viewfinder------------------------------------------------------------ 4/5 stars . Stabilization-------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5 stars . Raw------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 4 stars . Jpeds-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3,5 stars . Lenses, Lots of choices less expensive, compact------------------------- 5 stars========================= Total (subjective) 47 Points . AF-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4 stars . Menu---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3 stars . Handling, liitle hands, it is light, no grip, good ergonomics help------3/5 stars . Resolution, 16MP.................................................................................4 stars . Weather sealing, yes------------------------------------------------------wins----1 sta - Fujifilm XT2 body only . Beautiful, serious------------------------------------------------------------------- 5 stars . Small---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4 stars . Very good viewfinder-------------------------------------------------------------- 5 stars . Stabilization, None if LOIS lens------------------------------------------------ 3 stars . Raw----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5 stars . Jpegs------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4/5 stars . Lenses, Really good, enough choices, VERY expensive----------------4 stars========================= Total (subjective) 49.5 Points . AF-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5 stars . Menu (intuitive)--------------------------------------------------------------------- 5 stars . Handling, (one can buy a grip, but let's forget it)----------------------------3 stars . Resolution, 24MP-------------------------------------------------------------------5 stars . Weather sealing, yes---------------------------------------------------------------1 star ---------- Post added 12-07-18 at 02:48 PM ---------- I find the lady's face, in the third photo, BW, very natural. If I zoom, the eys look alive, just natural, not to much of anything. The face expression is very well rendered. Not a photoshop effect! I worked in High End HiFi a lot of years and the best systems are discret, usally those systems that impress "tout de suite" sell faster, but deception comes allways later. The best system seem to be almost average, at first. Do you know what I mean? Simple and natural is the best. I am not saying that this effect is exclusive from Fuji. It's just very well balanced. The photographer must have some credits here, I guess. Last edited by Francisco Carneiro; 12-07-2018 at 02:56 PM. | |
| 12-07-2018, 02:49 PM | #139 |
| Originally posted by Francisco Carneiro Dear Pentax fans, please forgive me. true, don't buy into anything that does not ring your bell.. | |
| 12-07-2018, 03:40 PM | #140 |
| Originally posted by pres589 I was thinking about this and how a film SLR is a pretty compact thing with the right lens attached. Would an XT-2 or similar feel like an MX or LX in-hand? I like the look of the control layout on the Fuji's like the XT-2. There are a few compact primes available for the X mount that seem like they would get pretty close to my Ricoh SLR and Pentax M 50 1.7 as far as weight, size, and handling. The control layout to the mid-grade Olympus M43 cameras just look kind of jumbled and less easy to scan at a glance. Kind of like the KP, if I'm honest. I prefer the looks of K-70 or K1, or the K5's. Kp is functional, but aesthetically I found that the KP is a nonsense design, designed under marketing demands to look "retro" but still looking like a pentax and like a modern DSLR camera. It doesn't work for me, it doesn't fit... for me. | |
| 12-07-2018, 04:06 PM | #141 |
| Originally posted by Francisco Carneiro I prefer the looks of K-70 or K1, or the K5's. Kp is functional, but aesthetically I found that the KP is a nonsense design, designed under marketing demands to look "retro" but still looking like a pentax and like a modern DSLR camera. It doesn't work for me, it doesn't fit... for me. Personally, I grew up shooting cameras like the Program Plus, the Super Program, MX and similar with M and A series lenses that take up significantly less volume in a camera bag. In fact those cameras would swim around in my Lowepro TLZ 65AW and 75AW. where as the K-5IIs fits much more snugly. If the KP didn't have such a crippled RAW buffer and took the DLI90 battery, I'd probably have purchased it. I like the volume reduction. | |
| 12-07-2018, 04:48 PM | #143 |
| 12-07-2018, 04:54 PM | #144 |
| Originally posted by Mountain Vision So this turned into a for sale thread? Well played! I erased it. It was just a consequence. Sorry. I will sell here in France, naturally. ---------- Post added 12-07-18 at 05:05 PM ---------- I saw a threat in this forum about the K10D. From 2007. The photos are great! I had a Nikon D40 that made very nice photos. I see photos of Lumix LX5 that are great. I understand that image quality is very important, but only one amongst multiple features of a camera. This threath has been very instructive. | |
| 12-08-2018, 06:08 AM | #145 |
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You need to make the choice that makes you happiest and honestly, if you aren't happy with your Olympus camera and you may not be, you can always sell it and buy a different Oly camera or even move to a different brand. Once you have a full lens line up, that gets a little more involved, but people still do it all of the time. I would make a small comment that you are trying to turn the subjective aspects of camera buying into something objective. Maybe that will lead to more satisfaction with your purchase in the long run, but most of the things you list are relatively unimportant. Menus are neither here nor there. I set things when I get a camera and as long as there are decent buttons on the body (the KP has these), you don't have to touch them again. Ergonomics need to be factored with lenses, not just the body itself and tend to vary from lens to lens. I think you undervalue image quality in your ratings. This is far and away the most important thing and it is the thing that will lead one to dissatisfaction with his or her choice the quickest. This is particularly true if you ever get into processing RAW images. I do a lot of pixel shift on the K-1 and the tonality and detail that that offers is amazing.  All of this said, as I have said before, you need to make the choice that makes you happy, but I really would decide more based on lenses you think you will purchase down the road than on a particular camera body. | |
| 12-08-2018, 06:55 AM | #147 |
| Originally posted by Francisco Carneiro Well, the amount of information in this photo is incredible. I know forests, I live surrounded by one. Nothing replaces what you live when you are there, that energy takes place in your body. But htis photo somehow takes you to that place, especially when I zoom it and make the big frame. I can swim on it! "...most of the things you list are relatively unimportant." I absolutely agree. Now I know it. I am learnig all the time. That's why I posted later a small list with the five more important aspects. I begin to be tired of turning around and around, frankly, and this is only my fault. Of course, image quality is number one, but It's the first time I decided to take a look to all the other features, you have to make it one day, so I had to do it here. There are things that you may like a lot, like focusing in the touchscreen in certain situations. I mean, I should take a look to it nevertheless, and I did it. We allways do it, but not allways in an obesssed way, like I just did. Image quality, allways. I know that XT2 has better image than Oly, but I think Oly will make me happy. One thing is sure : you can do amazing things with it, even if there are two hundreds of better cameras. And I know that K1 is an outstanding tool for image quality, but I also know that If I had it, I had to have another camera. K1 is to big for me, I would carry it just sometimes. And I may not be enough grown in photo, to be attracted by it. So that's not important. I also agree with you when you talk about lenses. Believe me, now my atention is turned to lenses. As someone said here, bodys come and go, but lenses stay. Oly seams to be my option also because of lenses. There are so many Zuiko lenses in France, and they are "affordable", compared to Fuji, for example. It is in this moment, my main motivation. Try to go to a website named "Leboncoin" and you will be embarrassed by how much choices you have for Oly lenses. (L'embarras du choix), a french expression. BTW, zuiko lenses have three big lines. I will have to ask some help to those who are more familiar than me, (hello Boris), to help me to choose my first set of lenses. One or two zooms, two or three primes, for a start. The lens think has became more important for me. The obsession for a body can be partially justified for being the choice of a lens brand. Eh eh... Raw : I never did it, but I want to begin. To try. The thing is, what software? Is it important what camera is used? May be each camera uses different kind of files to store raw and it has an influence in what software to buy. Can it be very (to) complex? Can you start with a nice simple, efficient software? Question, questions... | |
| 12-08-2018, 07:04 AM | #148 |
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May be this conversation begins to be a new threat, about Oly lenses. Do you think that I should open another threat like "What lenses for Olympus" ? Will such a threat be well placed in a "pentaxforums.com"? I have to add that not only Oly lenses are concerned but also litle Takumars, for example. It was Takumar that lead me to this forum, at first. So, should I open a new threat? This one will be allways open, anyways. Thanks ---------- Post added 12-08-18 at 07:20 AM ---------- Originally posted by Rondec My point was not that you should get a K-1, it is that pixel shift significantly improves image quality and it is present on the KP. It is just the only cameras I own that have pixel shift are full frame. My K3 is a little too old to have it, but I would use it if it had it. I read about pixel shift and found it a great feature. I wish I had in Oly... ...but will have fun using the "High Resolution" feature. If it is like they said! I saw many videos and it looks nice. May be not so nice as they say, but nice. Long exposure and shutter limits are great too. Electronic shutter for silence is sometimes very usefull and I will need it for certain workshops where silence is in the room. I saw your pictures. You would like to shoot here, by the rivers of the forest. It makes a very "Monet" picture, and gets mysterious at dawn and sunset. The local architecture is old and extremely well "inserted" in nature. Also elegant. Last edited by Francisco Carneiro; 12-08-2018 at 07:28 AM. | |
| 12-08-2018, 10:37 AM | #149 |
| Originally posted by Francisco Carneiro Do you think that I should open another threat like "What lenses for Olympus" ? Although i do think there are places on the net that will provide you with better or at least more complete info. Anyhow, I do agree with rondec's last post. Some of the 'objective' criteria are very clinical. I wonder whether you have actually 'held' all three camera(brand)s and pushed some buttons, played with it, with a lens on. Even when it is only in a shop.. | |
| 12-08-2018, 01:03 PM | #150 |
| Originally posted by Francisco Carneiro I read about pixel shift and found it a great feature. I wish I had in Oly... ...but will have fun using the "High Resolution" feature ---------- Post added 12-09-18 at 07:10 AM ---------- Mu-43.com is a goodplace to get lens info. | |
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