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12-03-2018, 02:38 PM   #16
Des
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QuoteOriginally posted by RKKS08 Quote
For this purpose I use either the Metz 20 C-2 or the Metz 24 AF-1 digital.
They share the same case and are very small (well pocketable). Compared with the pop-up flashes, you gain about 1 stops

The 20 is manual and auto thyristor (2 apertures), the 24 is pTTL only and offers AF help light if the camera wants it.
You would think the 20/24 designation hints to the GN, but in practice the 20 C-2 is definitely stronger than the 24. Probably the pTTL pre-flash takes some load off the capacitor.
Disadvantage of both flashes (as with all the pocketable flashes) is the relatively long recover time (2 Eneloops only). But 4 batteries would add a lot of weight.
I guess we need to stress this point. There's no free lunch. The compact units are compact because they use fewer batteries and have lower output and slower recovery times than a full-size flash like the Pentax 540 FGZ or Metz 58 AF-2. And if you use the pocket models heavily you will need to carry spare batteries, which negates some of the weight-saving. But the weight saving is still a big advantage: I hardly notice the small units on the camera, compared to the heft of my Metz 58 AF-1 (nearly 500g with 4 AA batteries) perched on the hotshoe (not to mention any modifier, such as a fresnel lens flash extender).

One footnote about the Metz 24 AF-1 (which I have also had). It has no settings whatsoever on the flash itself. The output is entirely controlled by the camera. PTTL use is really simple: the output is metered and set automatically, and you can use flash exposure compensation in the camera to adjust the output (-2 to +1 EV). <s>If the camera has manual flash settings (all the recent Pentax DSLRs do,as I understand it), you can also set the output for the flash manually, from full power (1/1) to 1/128 of full power, in the camera.</s> [Edit: The last sentence is wrong. See below.]


Last edited by Des; 12-04-2018 at 01:21 AM.
12-03-2018, 03:16 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
It's worth adding here that the Godox TT350P (an attractive and versatile option for sure) uses a 2.4Ghz radio control system for it's "wireless" operations .... It's not a Pentax system type "optical P-TTL" flash. Des has already specified this, but I wonder if references to "master/controller" features could lead to confusion...? This is why it is not compatible with Pentax dedicated system flashes (the traditional kind), but rather is compatible with other Godox units sharing the same Godox radio system.This radio control technology is of course generally an advantage, removing the optical "line of sight" limitations ....however we're going to have to advertise the distinction I referred to above loudly, if we are not to have disappointed people reporting that the little Godox model is not working to control their AF-360FGZ's, or Metz 44AF-1 etc
Absolutely. For people who want a radio control system allowing off-camera PTTL with flashes of different brands, it's Cactus or Acon triggers as I understand it. (There are other options for manual-only triggers of course.) If you buy into Godox for its radio system, it's to use with other Godox strobes.

But I think there's a case for the Godox TT350P even for people who only want a single mid-strength PTTL flash for on-camera use. The options amongst PTTL flashes around GN 35 are limited: Pentax AF-360 FGZ mark I and II; Metz Mecablitz M400; Metz 36 AF-5 and earlier versions; and the Godox. That's about it, as far as I can see. The Godox is a lot cheaper than the others, but has a very attractive feature set (even putting aside the radio control).

QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
I'd be tempted with the Godox TT350P along with a more powerful model off-camera, as I do like to work with an on-camera flash for fill (it is convenient for dynamic situations), combined with an off camera main light, and a compact design is better for this type of use.
+1. A PTTL version of the Godox TT685 (GN 60) would complete the set nicely, and replace my Metz 58 AF-1.

Last edited by Des; 12-03-2018 at 11:34 PM.
12-03-2018, 06:39 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by GordZ Quote
Thanks for the input,
I suppose I will get a small flash that I can keep in a pocket if the next K3 comes out with out the built in flash. Hear's hoping Pentax will have an up date version of the camera before I get too old to appreciate it. Maybe I will look at the current K1 as a replacement to my trusty K5iiS which I have carried across Canada,USA,England, Portugal & Spain
Thanks again for the input I will look at the Godox line and the AF201 such a desision.
GordZ
+1 for the Pentax AF 201 hot show flash. It is remarkably small and pocketable. it is more powerful than a built-in flash, has tilt for bounce flash, and even downward tilt for closeup use. It is also of WR construction, and is reasonably priced.

The K-5 IIs is still no slouch. I have the KP and still like mine.

---------- Post added 12-03-18 at 06:51 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by twilhelm Quote
How about the KP? It has the pop up flash, amazing image quality and the best auto focus of the lot.
I certainly agree. I love my KP. I bought the Pentax compact flash to carry along in case I need it in low light at a distance where the KP's flash may not be adequate, but don't always carry it. The KP's flash may be a bit weaker than that of other models, but higher ISO strengthens flash reach, and the KP's higher ISO capability tends to therefore offset that flash difference. The KP fills a nice spot along with my K-5 IIs, in that it is now my mainly-used body, while the larger body is what I turn to when I need that, along with its greater extent of faster-operating on-body array of controls. So the KP is my ultra high-quality compact model.

I don't think it will be all that long now before the K-3 II replacement announcement comes around.

Last edited by mikesbike; 12-03-2018 at 06:52 PM.
12-03-2018, 07:54 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
I don't think it will be all that long now before the K-3 II replacement announcement comes around.
The runout-type prices for the KP point in that direction, but who knows? I have given up on all those threads speculating about this - they are a farrago of interpretations of Asahi Man's Delphic pronouncements, rumour and guesses. In the meantime, I've taken your advice and ordered a KP. ;-)

12-03-2018, 09:39 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Des Quote
If the camera has manual flash settings (all the recent Pentax DSLRs do, as I understand it), you can also set the output for the flash manually, from full power (1/1) to 1/128 of full power, in the camera.
What other flashes would in-camera power level control work? Is this something that would be possible for any PTTL capable flash?I've got an AF-200FGZ I'd love to have more power control over for macro use.
12-03-2018, 11:57 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Thagomizer Quote
What other flashes would in-camera power level control work? Is this something that would be possible for any PTTL capable flash?I've got an AF-200FGZ I'd love to have more power control over for macro use.
I must be talking through my hat. Nigel's guide (supplement to the 2nd ed) says that Manual mode in the flash control only works on the popup flash. The feature was first introduced with the K-3. It's included in other recent cameras which have a popup flash (K-S1, K-S2, K-70 and KP) but not in those which don't (K-3ii, K-1, K-1ii). Strange because when I tried it with the Metz 24 on the K-S2 it seemed to affect the output. Must have been a placebo effect. Sorry about that.

Last edited by Des; 12-04-2018 at 02:04 AM.
12-04-2018, 08:13 AM - 1 Like   #22
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Oh well. I thought I'd actually tried that out at one point, but your phrasing of it gave me some hope that I'd missed some missed combination of button pushes and menu selections required to make it work. That's okay; wishful thinking can get one believing any number of unlikely things!
12-04-2018, 11:44 AM   #23
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Well it's worth a few shots to try it out ..... What I was saying in the Guide was of course that the specific purpose of the flash manual power levels (within the Flash Mode screen) is to set those power levels on the built-in flash. Whether there is any undocumented or unintended passthrough of those settings to a hotshoe accessory flash just needs testing. I would be surprised if there was any correlation between the power numbers on the camera and the actual fractions of total power output from an accessory flash ........

12-04-2018, 01:48 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
Whether there is any undocumented or unintended passthrough of those settings to a hotshoe accessory flash just needs testing. I would be surprised if there was any correlation between the power numbers on the camera and the actual fractions of total power output from an accessory flash ........
I don't have the Metz 24 any more, but I just tried various combinations with the Godox TT350P on the K-S2. I tried with the flash in TTL mode (0EV) and the camera set to manual flash. No difference in exposure whether the camera was set to full power or 1/128. I tried with the flash in manual mode and the camera set to manual flash. Again no difference in exposure regardless of the flash power setting in the camera. So no indication at all that the manual flash power setting in the camera had any effect.

To confirm that the manual flash setting in the camera is working, I tried it using the popup flash. Huge difference in exposure when I switched between full power and 1/128.
12-04-2018, 02:13 PM - 1 Like   #25
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Thanks Des, that seems to settle it. I personally prefer, when working with an on-camera flash, to make all flash power /compensation adjustments on the flash controls directly .... This seems to provide a good clear mental distinction between ambient settings (on the camera) and flash exposure control (on the flash).
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