And people wonder why DSLR sales are declining...

KiloHotelphoto · 12-12-2018, 04:22 PM - **6 Likes**

Complaining about having to take a battery out to charge it, wow.

Docrwm · 12-12-2018, 04:37 PM - **4 Likes**

Originally posted by KiloHotelphoto

Complaining about having to take a battery out to charge it, wow.

Millennial......

kypfer · 12-12-2018, 04:55 PM - **1 Like**

If DSLR sales are declining it's quite possibly because the market has now flooded with high-capability cameras and lenses and any new innovations are simply not enough to encourage existing users to upgrade so often.

In days long past, there could be seen a distinct step up in capability and picture quality from a "compact" to a DSLR. These days slim pocketable multi-function devices are readily available and more than enough for most people's photographic needs.

What there might be a market for is a good-quality economy-price minimum-feature DSLR, without all the "Scenes" and built-in "Digital Filters", wi-fi and the like, and of a physical size that can be easily operated by a full-size person wearing gloves.

The extra volume of the slightly bigger body could be filled with a "sensible" battery that didn't need changing every few hours.

Taking a pre-existing design and simply upgrading it with a 24Mpixel sensor (or better) would surely be a lot cheaper than redesigning from scratch and could ensure a continuity of use of pre-owned accessories like battery-grips or cable-releases.

Having to re-invest in a whole new set of accessories when upgrading the body has got to put off a lot of potential purchasers!

Docrwm · 12-12-2018, 05:06 PM - **2 Likes**

There has been a return to film by hipsters to the point that K1000s and X700s from Minolta sell like hotcakes on eBay. Add to that the fact that everyone under 35 seems to live online and their phone is surgically attached to their hand and it makes using a dSLR a challenge.

**ThorSanchez** · 12-12-2018, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by reh321

Problem is, that adds more size and weight to the camera - a cost most of us aren't interested in 'paying'.

I know cell phones with wireless charging sometimes weigh upwards of 8 ounces. No way you could squeeze that technology into a 25-35 ounce DSLR.

Docrwm · 12-12-2018, 05:22 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by ThorSanchez

I know cell phones with wireless charging sometimes weigh upwards of 8 ounces. No way you could squeeze that technology into a 25-35 ounce DSLR.

You could.....but you'd have to loose something else.

**ThorSanchez** · 12-12-2018, 05:24 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by kypfer

What there might be a market for is a good-quality economy-price minimum-feature DSLR, without all the "Scenes" and built-in "Digital Filters", wi-fi and the like, and of a physical size that can be easily operated by a full-size person wearing gloves.

So you're going to increase market share and convince people who otherwise wouldn't use an ILC to come on over to a camera that doesn't have many of the basic preset controls and features that have been standard in the cell phones they've been using for 8 or 10 years? For an economy-priced, low-margin camera to work they'd have to sell truckloads of them. I doubt that would happen with a camera with a seriously pared down feature set. That sounds more like a niche camera for a subset of longtime ILC users who pine for their old Spotmatic.

---------- Post added 12-12-18 at 07:25 PM ----------

Originally posted by Docrwm

You could.....but you'd have to loose something else.

Or the engineers just get a little creative. Just think what you can squeeze into a cell phone today that would seem ludicrous a decade ago. What did the cell phone companies remove to add wireless charging?

---------- Post added 12-12-18 at 07:27 PM ----------

Originally posted by KiloHotelphoto

Complaining about having to take a battery out to charge it, wow.

I only buy cars that can be crank-started with a handle. Kids these days...

**GUB** · 12-12-2018, 06:01 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by ThorSanchez

I only buy cars that can be crank-started with a handle. Kids these days...

Crankhandle - LUXURY!!- my car I have to jack it up and spin the wheel to start it!

Docrwm · 12-12-2018, 06:07 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by GUB

Crankhandle - LUXURY!!- my car I have to jack it up and spin the wheel to start it!

I'm more modern, I have a floor button to start mine.....

**Rondec** · 12-12-2018, 06:17 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by ThorSanchez

I know cell phones with wireless charging sometimes weigh upwards of 8 ounces. No way you could squeeze that technology into a 25-35 ounce DSLR.

I don't think that's really the point. I think the point is that your camera is unusable while it is charging if you have wireless charging. And honestly, wireless charging isn't really wireless. There is a wire connecting your charger to the outlet. In that regard, your battery is receiving "wireless" charging when you lay it on the battery charger.

Also, I would not expect camera companies to continue to supply a separate battery charger for free if their camera supported wireless charging, although certainly you could buy it separately.

Regardless, I think this is one of those ideas that while it may be interesting, would be unlikely to actually move any more camera units than are currently sold.

pinholecam · 12-12-2018, 06:48 PM

- no battery charging without removing the batteries
Yes, so that the prism, mirror, etc stays in a nice dry cabinet (a must here in the tropics where mushrooms grow faster than you can eat them )

No connector wearout issues preventing charging and making the camera useless. (and don't forget that phones get changed every year or every other year, but not a camera)

- no wireless charging (with batteries in the camera, obviously)
Er...ok... but they aren't too fast right? same considerations as #1

- nearly useless wifi speed
Yes, can be faster, but the files are not small

- nearly useless wifi functionality (e.g. cannot browse the camera storage over a local network, for drag/drop file transfer; this is done by implementing Samba shares)
They really need to improve this. Maybe make it android based so that people might make apps for it.
Certainly the processor needs to be smarter (so that the shooter can be less smart)

, the processing of the images by a high end HP like a Huawei P20 or iphone vs camera is not contest at all.
They really need to make it easier to upload small sized version of images that are processed automatically in the camera.

lesmore49 · 12-12-2018, 07:12 PM - **1 Like**

I don't have any battery charge issues. I carry a fully charged battery in my battery grip(s) on my K1, K5 and K10D. With two batteries, one in the grip, one in the body...I always have battery power. At night if I need to charge a battery...it's on the charger with a fresh battery when I awake.

To me it is a non issue.

BTW, I charge my cell every night...I have to...the cell phone battery runs out of juice so fast compared to my Pentax batteries.

Removing the camera battery for me, is also a non issue. I'm very quick at doing it, possibly because I have a lot of experience doing it with my three K digital bodies.

**clackers** · 12-12-2018, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by pinholecam

They really need to improve this. Maybe make it android based so that people might make apps for it.

Yeah, been done, Pinholecam, by the number one Android manufacturer in the world … remember this? An abysmal market failure.

So have been the Sony and DxO add on 1" sensor and zoom lenses for Apple and Android smartphones.

**monochrome** · 12-12-2018, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by Fenwoodian

It all depends upon what the end uses of your photos are.

If you want wifi this and instant that for posting to "social media", a smart phone is all you need. Don't mess with the design of DSLRs in order so they can compete with smart phones. Completely different markets and user bases.

But if your goals are making prints (especially large ones) then the DSLR/ICL-Mirrorless "big" cameras are something you must take the time to learn.

This ^^. Use the tool best suited to the task. I never, ever share dSLR images on social media, but I do take snapshots with my phone using Instaflash, process them in-app and share them from the Photo Gallery.

None of the OP’s other requested features has any utility for me in a dSLR. The current format is optimal for the task. I imagine any such ‘tool blending’ innovation would come from someone outside the camera industry and it would use a ton of AI, so it wouldn’t be a traditional ILC anyway.

reh321 · 12-12-2018, 08:10 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by kypfer

If DSLR sales are declining it's quite possibly because the market has now flooded with high-capability cameras and lenses and any new innovations are simply not enough to encourage existing users to upgrade so often.

The most important word in this post is your first one - "If". The OP is looking at the wrong beginning point; a more appropriate beginning point would be 1975. I know lots of people who used an Instamatic camera in 1975 who were using an SLR by 1985 ..... and when they switched to digital they moved back to a point-and-shoot camera. I believe - but do not know - that they moved from SLR to digital point-and-shoot to smart camera because less expensive digital cameras gave them the same quality 4"x6" prints that they had been getting from SLRs, and now they are getting the quality of on-line posts that meets their needs. I doubt very much that convenience in charging had anything to do with this trend.

12-12-2018, 07:32 PM	#43
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by pinholecam They really need to improve this. Maybe make it android based so that people might make apps for it. Yeah, been done, Pinholecam, by the number one Android manufacturer in the world … remember this? An abysmal market failure. So have been the Sony and DxO add on 1" sensor and zoom lenses for Apple and Android smartphones. Attached Images

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12-12-2018, 04:22 PM - 6 Likes	#31
KiloHotelphoto Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Glen Mills, PA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,030	Complaining about having to take a battery out to charge it, wow.

12-12-2018, 04:37 PM - 4 Likes	#32
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by KiloHotelphoto Complaining about having to take a battery out to charge it, wow. Millennial......

12-12-2018, 04:55 PM - 1 Like	#33
kypfer Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Jersey C.I. Posts: 3,594	If DSLR sales are declining it's quite possibly because the market has now flooded with high-capability cameras and lenses and any new innovations are simply not enough to encourage existing users to upgrade so often. In days long past, there could be seen a distinct step up in capability and picture quality from a "compact" to a DSLR. These days slim pocketable multi-function devices are readily available and more than enough for most people's photographic needs. What there might be a market for is a good-quality economy-price minimum-feature DSLR, without all the "Scenes" and built-in "Digital Filters", wi-fi and the like, and of a physical size that can be easily operated by a full-size person wearing gloves. The extra volume of the slightly bigger body could be filled with a "sensible" battery that didn't need changing every few hours. Taking a pre-existing design and simply upgrading it with a 24Mpixel sensor (or better) would surely be a lot cheaper than redesigning from scratch and could ensure a continuity of use of pre-owned accessories like battery-grips or cable-releases. Having to re-invest in a whole new set of accessories when upgrading the body has got to put off a lot of potential purchasers!

12-12-2018, 05:06 PM - 2 Likes	#34
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	There has been a return to film by hipsters to the point that K1000s and X700s from Minolta sell like hotcakes on eBay. Add to that the fact that everyone under 35 seems to live online and their phone is surgically attached to their hand and it makes using a dSLR a challenge.

12-12-2018, 05:19 PM	#35
ThorSanchez Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,806	Originally posted by reh321 Problem is, that adds more size and weight to the camera - a cost most of us aren't interested in 'paying'. I know cell phones with wireless charging sometimes weigh upwards of 8 ounces. No way you could squeeze that technology into a 25-35 ounce DSLR.

12-12-2018, 05:22 PM - 1 Like	#36
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by ThorSanchez I know cell phones with wireless charging sometimes weigh upwards of 8 ounces. No way you could squeeze that technology into a 25-35 ounce DSLR. You could.....but you'd have to loose something else.

12-12-2018, 05:24 PM - 2 Likes	#37
ThorSanchez Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,806	Originally posted by kypfer What there might be a market for is a good-quality economy-price minimum-feature DSLR, without all the "Scenes" and built-in "Digital Filters", wi-fi and the like, and of a physical size that can be easily operated by a full-size person wearing gloves. So you're going to increase market share and convince people who otherwise wouldn't use an ILC to come on over to a camera that doesn't have many of the basic preset controls and features that have been standard in the cell phones they've been using for 8 or 10 years? For an economy-priced, low-margin camera to work they'd have to sell truckloads of them. I doubt that would happen with a camera with a seriously pared down feature set. That sounds more like a niche camera for a subset of longtime ILC users who pine for their old Spotmatic. ---------- Post added 12-12-18 at 07:25 PM ---------- Originally posted by Docrwm You could.....but you'd have to loose something else. Or the engineers just get a little creative. Just think what you can squeeze into a cell phone today that would seem ludicrous a decade ago. What did the cell phone companies remove to add wireless charging? ---------- Post added 12-12-18 at 07:27 PM ---------- Originally posted by KiloHotelphoto Complaining about having to take a battery out to charge it, wow. I only buy cars that can be crank-started with a handle. Kids these days...

12-12-2018, 06:01 PM - 1 Like	#38
GUB Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Wanganui Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,760	Originally posted by ThorSanchez I only buy cars that can be crank-started with a handle. Kids these days... Crankhandle - LUXURY!!- my car I have to jack it up and spin the wheel to start it!

12-12-2018, 06:07 PM - 1 Like	#39
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by GUB Crankhandle - LUXURY!!- my car I have to jack it up and spin the wheel to start it! I'm more modern, I have a floor button to start mine.....

12-12-2018, 06:17 PM - 1 Like	#40
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by ThorSanchez I know cell phones with wireless charging sometimes weigh upwards of 8 ounces. No way you could squeeze that technology into a 25-35 ounce DSLR. I don't think that's really the point. I think the point is that your camera is unusable while it is charging if you have wireless charging. And honestly, wireless charging isn't really wireless. There is a wire connecting your charger to the outlet. In that regard, your battery is receiving "wireless" charging when you lay it on the battery charger. Also, I would not expect camera companies to continue to supply a separate battery charger for free if their camera supported wireless charging, although certainly you could buy it separately. Regardless, I think this is one of those ideas that while it may be interesting, would be unlikely to actually move any more camera units than are currently sold.

12-12-2018, 06:48 PM	#41
pinholecam Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: North Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,706	- no battery charging without removing the batteries Yes, so that the prism, mirror, etc stays in a nice dry cabinet (a must here in the tropics where mushrooms grow faster than you can eat them ) No connector wearout issues preventing charging and making the camera useless. (and don't forget that phones get changed every year or every other year, but not a camera) - no wireless charging (with batteries in the camera, obviously) Er...ok... but they aren't too fast right? same considerations as #1 - nearly useless wifi speed Yes, can be faster, but the files are not small - nearly useless wifi functionality (e.g. cannot browse the camera storage over a local network, for drag/drop file transfer; this is done by implementing Samba shares) They really need to improve this. Maybe make it android based so that people might make apps for it. Certainly the processor needs to be smarter (so that the shooter can be less smart) , the processing of the images by a high end HP like a Huawei P20 or iphone vs camera is not contest at all. They really need to make it easier to upload small sized version of images that are processed automatically in the camera.

12-12-2018, 07:12 PM - 1 Like	#42
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,344	I don't have any battery charge issues. I carry a fully charged battery in my battery grip(s) on my K1, K5 and K10D. With two batteries, one in the grip, one in the body...I always have battery power. At night if I need to charge a battery...it's on the charger with a fresh battery when I awake. To me it is a non issue. BTW, I charge my cell every night...I have to...the cell phone battery runs out of juice so fast compared to my Pentax batteries. Removing the camera battery for me, is also a non issue. I'm very quick at doing it, possibly because I have a lot of experience doing it with my three K digital bodies.

12-12-2018, 07:32 PM	#44
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Fenwoodian It all depends upon what the end uses of your photos are. If you want wifi this and instant that for posting to "social media", a smart phone is all you need. Don't mess with the design of DSLRs in order so they can compete with smart phones. Completely different markets and user bases. But if your goals are making prints (especially large ones) then the DSLR/ICL-Mirrorless "big" cameras are something you must take the time to learn. This ^^. Use the tool best suited to the task. I never, ever share dSLR images on social media, but I do take snapshots with my phone using Instaflash, process them in-app and share them from the Photo Gallery. None of the OP’s other requested features has any utility for me in a dSLR. The current format is optimal for the task. I imagine any such ‘tool blending’ innovation would come from someone outside the camera industry and it would use a ton of AI, so it wouldn’t be a traditional ILC anyway.

12-12-2018, 08:10 PM - 2 Likes	#45
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by kypfer If DSLR sales are declining it's quite possibly because the market has now flooded with high-capability cameras and lenses and any new innovations are simply not enough to encourage existing users to upgrade so often. The most important word in this post is your first one - "If". The OP is looking at the wrong beginning point; a more appropriate beginning point would be 1975. I know lots of people who used an Instamatic camera in 1975 who were using an SLR by 1985 ..... and when they switched to digital they moved back to a point-and-shoot camera. I believe - but do not know - that they moved from SLR to digital point-and-shoot to smart camera because less expensive digital cameras gave them the same quality 4"x6" prints that they had been getting from SLRs, and now they are getting the quality of on-line posts that meets their needs. I doubt very much that convenience in charging had anything to do with this trend.