[ThorSanchez]

And why would I spend 500 dollars more than my camera body for a phone that cannot have the battery replaced and will be unable to hold a charge or be broken on the sidewalk within 4 years? 1300 USD for a new google or iPhone? That still suck for usability when taking pictures. Pass.

I don't quite get why a lot of conversations that start off as "it would be nice if features x, y, z were incorporated in a Pentax camera" end up as rants about how horrible cell phone cameras and cell phone limitations are, and how terrible it would be if the worst aspects of phones were forced on DLSR users. It sounds like sports car enthusiasts complaining about a dystopian future where eveyone drives a boring Prius pod, and they won't look up to see the Tesla with 2.5 second 0-60 times.

Why can't we Pentaxians visualize a future where some of the advances made to overcome small sensor cameras in phones be spun off into amazing large-sensor ILCs, that might even be made by Pentax?

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Last edited by ThorSanchez; 12-13-2018 at 11:40 AM.

[peterh337]

None of this is hard.

Wireless charging doesn't need to be fast for a DSLR. It needs to be fast on a phone because that's what people want, and most high end phones struggle to last a whole day. Most won't last a whole day if you are taking photos; I carry one of those "power monkey" things to top mine off if I am out all day. But a K1 easily lasts all day no matter what you are doing. Mine lasts several days (say 500 pics) and I carry a spare battery.

Wireless charging is also not essential if you do it via contacts, like has been done since for ever on Dect phones, handheld transceivers (Icom, Yaesu), etc.

WIFI can easily be much faster. What we have is simply negligent software. Somebody made a decision that wifi is not a market priority, so they have this extremely slow implementation. It's not a significant power issue either. And there is no extra space or weight to do it properly (as I wrote earlier, 20 megabytes/sec is possible using the "old" current standards). And implement both modes i.e. the camera is a wifi client (and syncs the pics to a preconfigured network share - samba shares are common because most network drives run linux) and where it is a wifi hotspot (access point) where your phone can connect to it and grab pics off it.

I think the future must be mirrorless - like it or not. That enables a significant shrinkage of the body, and some small weight saving. But most importantly loads of fancy features which the main market clearly wants: you can display all kinds of junk on the viewfinder. So if Pentax want to be a player, they will have to put a lot more R&D into it anyway, to get fast enough focus, etc.

So why am I not using the A9? It doesn't do the above stuff either, but mostly because the ergonomics are rubbish. The angular case is dreadful to hold. The K1 (and predecessors) is much nicer. Oh and the silly price...

[awscreo]

Isn't wire less charging only available with glass backs? Glass seems like a bad idea on a rugged dslr. I do agree on WiFi points, but I slap found myself not using it at all. I got me a tiny Pentax wireless remote, it works fine.

[stevebrot]

I think people don't appreciate being able to browse the camera like a network drive all the time they haven't got that capability.

I do believe you are correct, mostly because the lack of such doesn't cause pain for most people.

The question yu have to ask is why none of the ILC makers, in a highly competitive market, offer these things.

My question as well. What does the lack or deficiency of these few features have to do with dSLRs specifically when the only camera equipped devices that have them are phones and tablets. Me thinks that this thread probably did not warrant comment (is immensely silly beyond the usual "the SLR is dead" chants) and I regret my participation.


Steve

(...boriscleto'ed...)

[stevebrot]

DSLR makers understand that their products are not cell phones.

Yep ^ ^ ^

The reason why DSLR sales are leveling out is because of a combination of maturing technology and the incursion of mirrorless cameras into their market.

Yep ^ ^ ^ ...also less trading up as owners realize that their cameras are more capable than they are and that buying again is throwing good money after bad.*

People are opting for the convenience of cell phones over DSLRs, but that has a lot to do with carrying one less item. The cell phone represents a great deal of convenience beyond being just able to link directly to facebook.

Indeed. I have done good work with my phone cam, mostly because it is what I had with me, but will add that the captures, while quite good, are rather brittle in PP and limited to what can be done with what is essentially a wide-angle prime.


Steve

* A good example might be the recurring story of K-30/K-50 owners who discover that the camera they have used two or three times in five years has developed aperture control issues.

[reh321]

I don't quite get why a lot of conversations that start off as "it would be nice if features x, y, z were incorporated in a Pentax camera" end up as rants about how horrible cell phone cameras and cell phone limitations are, and how terrible it would be if the worst aspects of phones were forced on DLSR users. It sounds like sports car enthusiasts complaining about a dystopian future where eveyone drives a boring Prius pod, and they won't look up to see the Tesla with 2.5 second 0-60 times.

Why can't we Pentaxians visualize a future where some of the advances made to overcome small sensor cameras in phones be spun off into amazing large-sensor ILCs, that might even be made by Pentax?

Actually, this conversation started off as "why can't Pentax DSLRs ape features x,y, z, which I like on cell phones?", so the natural response is to talk about the limitations of cell phones.

If Teslas were so great, then everyone would be purchasing one. Different people have different needs - something not recognized by those who value certain characteristics and want those on every camera.

[mikesbike]

What "people" really want is a phone that can do everything a DSLR can do, and without having to change lenses. Ultra-wide to long tele, macro, and all at f/1.4 equivalent capable. Even a port for a larger flash unit if needed. When that day comes, and it might, then where will the DSLR be? It might still be around, because phones will not have an OVF, and there is such a thing as too small, with insufficient controls, and the ones there are too squintched together for the comfort of many users. Actually, most mirrorless models are already in that category, for my taste. And the DSLR user, who values the feel of a"real" camera will revel in the fact he can have a battery in the charger while he is shooting with another battery in the camera. Phones can't do that. To do both via a docking charger device for the DSLR, while possible, I think is a diminishing return for the investment it would take, and as has been said, the docking device has to be plugged in as well- just like a battery charger. As to the battery door seal, I don't know the science here regarding significant wear, but the main feature of a "real" camera is the ability to change lenses. With WR, there is none unless the lens has WR too. So by changing lenses, this would be subject to the same issue of wear on the seal anyway, battery door or not.

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Last edited by mikesbike; 12-13-2018 at 02:01 PM.

[Rondec]

I don't quite get why a lot of conversations that start off as "it would be nice if features x, y, z were incorporated in a Pentax camera" end up as rants about how horrible cell phone cameras and cell phone limitations are, and how terrible it would be if the worst aspects of phones were forced on DLSR users. It sounds like sports car enthusiasts complaining about a dystopian future where eveyone drives a boring Prius pod, and they won't look up to see the Tesla with 2.5 second 0-60 times.

Why can't we Pentaxians visualize a future where some of the advances made to overcome small sensor cameras in phones be spun off into amazing large-sensor ILCs, that might even be made by Pentax?

I can imagine all sorts of things. I can imagine a world in which Ricoh announced tomorrow that they are investing a billion dollars into R and D for Pentax to surpass Canon, Nikon, and Sony in sales.

But I also have been shooting Pentax cameras for the last 18 years and my experience tells me that that isn't very likely to happen. My experience tells me furthermore that when expectations become significantly higher than what is delivered, it leads to pessimism and anger. As a positive person, I try to stay away from that tendency and enjoy the gear I have and try to imagine the small improvements that next year could bring.

I don't know much about wireless charging and wonder how having a stainless steel/magnesium body would affect the efficiency of such a charger. It seems as though it could negatively impact it, but as I say, I don't know.

[awscreo]

what I really want is to have biomechanical contact lenses that can zoom 12mm to 500mm, have 100mp plus resolution, no noise, run off body heat energy, upload them straight to my computer wirelessly and focus on things i'm looking at precisely. That'd be swell, hope it comes out next year!

[Larrymc]

I get a lot of use out of my cell phone camera. It's pretty much my yeah I know the quality will suck, but it's a situation where quality doesn't matter much anyway camera. Honestly, I value my phone more for it's ability to pick up internet radio stations than anything else.

Now that's a feature we desperately need, internet radio on our DSLR and then maybe HD TV also........these features are much more useful than some useless wifi charging feature. Then maybe we could ditch the lens and the sensor and the old outdated Pentaprism too cause they, you know, are only supported and bought by old Pentax shooters who hate progress.

[photoptimist]

Now that's a feature we desperately need, internet radio on our DSLR and then maybe HD TV also........these features are much more useful than some useless wifi charging feature. Then maybe we could ditch the lens and the sensor and the old outdated Pentaprism too cause they, you know, are only supported and bought by old Pentax shooters who hate progress.

LOL!

How about this: the device has GPS, wireless data, some clever AI, and a screen. The GPS gets your location, the wireless downloads the best image found on the internet for that location, and the AI photoshops you into the scene.

Who needs all those heavy, hard-to-clean lenses, complicated dials, finicky AF, and hours of agonizing post processing!

[Lord Lucan]

I would not have any interest in the OP's feature wish list. They might however be deal-clinchers for someone buying a DSLR for the first time, choosing between different brands and models. Such people often only count the marketing feature tick-boxes, because they have nothing better to go by. So I guess that if Nikon were to incorporate these features, then Canon and Sony would follow suit, and then Pentax maybe. But I don't think these features would make much difference in the sales balance between phones and cameras. There is a big enough difference even between the FF and 4/3 markets, let alone phones.

As for wireless charging, the manufacturers would then take the opportunity to save the cost of having the batteries removable, with the necessary compartment, contacts, door and latch. Battery failure would then mean end of camera, just like an Apple gadget and my wireless-charged electric toothbrush.

[Wheatfield]

Now that's a feature we desperately need, internet radio on our DSLR and then maybe HD TV also........these features are much more useful than some useless wifi charging feature. Then maybe we could ditch the lens and the sensor and the old outdated Pentaprism too cause they, you know, are only supported and bought by old Pentax shooters who hate progress.

I foresee a "smartcamera" that will presample the image and then go to a picture repository and download the best version it can find on the web.

[reh321]

I foresee a "smartcamera" that will presample the image and then go to a picture repository and download the best version it can find on the web.

Exactly what I would not want, because it would not be the scene I was seeing {I hope you were joking}

[Mountain Vision]

LOL!

How about this: the device has GPS, wireless data, some clever AI, and a screen. The GPS gets your location, the wireless downloads the best image found on the internet for that location, and the AI photoshops you into the scene.

Who needs all those heavy, hard-to-clean lenses, complicated dials, finicky AF, and hours of agonizing post processing!

This is brilliant. It saves us all the time wasted in the nuances of photography and minutia of equipment. I like it. When does it come to market?