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12-13-2018, 07:56 PM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
LOL!

How about this: the device has GPS, wireless data, some clever AI, and a screen. The GPS gets your location, the wireless downloads the best image found on the internet for that location, and the AI photoshops you into the scene.

Who needs all those heavy, hard-to-clean lenses, complicated dials, finicky AF, and hours of agonizing post processing!
Works for me!! I'll never ever have an out of focus photo!! Where can I buy this miracle device....Uh camera?

12-13-2018, 08:02 PM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
LOL!

How about this: the device has GPS, wireless data, some clever AI, and a screen. The GPS gets your location, the wireless downloads the best image found on the internet for that location, and the AI photoshops you into the scene.

Who needs all those heavy, hard-to-clean lenses, complicated dials, finicky AF, and hours of agonizing post processing!
What would have happened when someone took a photo of the George H. W. Bush funeral train along the route from Houston to College Park {a once in time event}?
12-13-2018, 08:09 PM - 3 Likes   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Exactly what I would not want, because it would not be the scene I was seeing {I hope you were joking}
What??? You must be against progress!! We need to unplug you and send you for reprogramming........Immediately......don't even bother to pack your clothes!
12-13-2018, 08:34 PM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Exactly what I would not want, because it would not be the scene I was seeing {I hope you were joking}
I’m only sort of joking.

12-13-2018, 08:38 PM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
What??? You must be against progress!! We need to unplug you and send you for reprogramming........Immediately......don't even bother to pack your clothes!
I'm left-handed, which means my brain wiring is funky anyway.
12-13-2018, 08:38 PM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
Crankhandle - LUXURY!!- my car I have to jack it up and spin the wheel to start it!
I would only park my first car at the top hills, facing downwards, to allow 'easy starting'. Just open the door, push the car along with one leg, press the accelerator with the other, turn the key and hope that the engine starts before you run out of hill. Perth's pretty flat, so there were many places I couldn't visit if I wanted to get home.
12-13-2018, 08:55 PM - 1 Like   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Exactly what I would not want, because it would not be the scene I was seeing {I hope you were joking}
During our visit to Quebec City in 2016, we were climbing up from the river when I came to an immediate stop. As my wife asked "What is the matter?", I snapped the photo below while saying "This photo is demanding to be taken" .... the woman in red framed in the doorway had caught my attention and I realized I had a really good view of the hotel looming over us also. To be serious for a moment, this is what photography is to me - even if it is a "snapshot", a totally unplanned photo - it is a record of what I saw, not artistic perfection.




12-14-2018, 12:59 AM - 1 Like   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Yeah, been done, Pinholecam, by the number one Android manufacturer in the world … remember this? An abysmal market failure.

So have been the Sony and DxO add on 1" sensor and zoom lenses for Apple and Android smartphones.
Oh... yeah... I forgot about those

So does seem that laymen just want the ultimate convenience of the HP form factor.
12-14-2018, 02:31 AM   #99
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"They might however be deal-clinchers for someone buying a DSLR for the first time, choosing between different brands and models. Such people often only count the marketing feature tick-boxes, because they have nothing better to go by"

I have been shooting since 1975.

Fujica 605 (?)
OM1
OM1N
OM2SP
OM4TI
IST-DL
K100
K200
K5
K3
K1
and some others in between.

Clearly I must be stupid because film did everything I needed Provia 100 was not too bad. I used to shoot 25 rolls on a trip. Oh I used to shoot a pic of a piece of paper with my name and address, on every frame, to reduce the "lost in processing" percentage... Of course real men do their own E6 processing.

People like (some of) you lot are the biggest challenge for Marketing, which has to balance the hardcore militant fanboys with the people who actually buy the new stuff.
12-14-2018, 03:39 AM - 1 Like   #100
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I don't think it is too hard to understand, but if SLR sales are declining, it is either because they are losing sales (to mirrorless ILCs or smartphones) or that the market has matured and people aren't replacing their cameras nearly as often. At least at present, wifi isn't great on any ILCs and wireless charging doesn't exist for any of them either.

On the other hand, if we are talking about Pentax in particular, they need to invest their money in other areas -- primarily video and auto focus from a camera tech standpoint -- and in completing the DFA lens line up as fast as possible. Those sorts of things are the ones that are needed right now. If everything else was perfect and Pentax was trying to figuring out how to spend billions of dollars they were making from camera sales then perhaps the situation would be different.

As far as the whole downloading images for the location you're at, I don't think that's a great idea, but I do like the idea of having a camera AI that would delete "non-artistic" photos as quick as you take them so that you could take photos all day and come home with an empty memory card. I can imagine that would be a big seller.
12-14-2018, 03:58 AM   #101
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It would not take "billions" to fix the simple stuff like the near-useless wifi and connectivity and charging. Perhaps 100k... I've run an electronics design and mfg company for 40+ years.

I think the lack of sales is due to multiple factors. The biggest is that phones do an increasing chunk of photography. You can't fix that. It is here and cannot be stopped. Well, Pentax could go back to little retro-style film cameras for hipsters, with leather shoulder straps I think that fashion, the beards, etc, will die out within a few years, but there may be a bit of money in it for a bit.... maybe not though since there are tons of these old cameras on Ebay, and these people just carry them mostly for show.

The areas which can be addressed are the usability features. WIFI transfer etc is really a low hanging fruit.

Lots of companies with a "fanatical" following have had problems moving forward. Look at Apple. When their fanbase heard that Apple went to the IBM PC (80x86 processor) architecture, they went berserk, over the abandonment of "traditional Apple values". I hate this expression but sometimes you have to crack some eggs to make an omelette, and if Pentax if to survive as a player they need to move forward and come up with some stuff the others (similarly constrained by their fanbase) don't have. Pentax will never compete with Nikon and Canon in their traditional "pro" playgrounds; they need to do something different.
12-14-2018, 04:21 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by peterh337 Quote
I have been shooting since 1975 ... Clearly I must be stupid because film did everything I needed

People like (some of) you lot are the biggest challenge for Marketing, which has to balance the hardcore militant fanboys with the people who actually buy the new stuff.
I wasn't getting at you personally. If you want those features, fine. I don't need them - just a fact. My main point was that first time buyers often choose on the basis of counting tick boxes (I did with my first SLR years ago - I remember those Which? magazine tick matrices) so if one brand introduces a new feature then the others tend to follow suit : that is a marketing fact.

Yes I am now a severe challenge to marketing. One reason is that I rarely see ads unless I am actually looking, like searching the web for where to buy a new camera recently : I live in the sticks and my nearest market town is a "quaint" place that does not permit billboards; I do see point-of-sale ads but by the time I enter a shop I have already decided what to buy. I only watch TV via recordings and skip the ads (life is too short) and I block ads on my PC. When I do see ads I react negatively - eg buying a pressure washer recently I avoided Karcher because their ads are annoyingly plastered over a road atlas I have (spending on ads instead of quality?). Also, having been in heavy engineering I am accustomed to scrutinising specifications and drawings, and holding "endless" probing meetings with equipment suppliers before buying. You don't spend £100k on eg a large industrial valve based on hype.

Nevertheless I am prepared to spend once I am satisfied with the prospect of what I am buying.
12-14-2018, 04:27 AM   #103
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Next time you are "somewhere scenic", watch someone with a DSLR. There won't be many of them Watch them take a pic with the DSLR and take the same pic with a phone to send to someone. That is a right PITA and is completely avoidable with very simple technology.

Having really easy automatic pic transfer to a phone would be a killer feature. Basically, sync suitably downsized jpegs (say 10-15MP) to the phone's DCIM/CAMERA (or similar, "camera roll" on Apple phones) path. The phone can then sync them to dropbox if needed.

Last edited by peterh337; 12-14-2018 at 04:39 AM.
12-14-2018, 04:35 AM   #104
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Changes in technology will continue. We can't stop that from happening. It doesn't matter who created the product. It is those who innovate that will be successful. Companies who fail to innovate will be eaten in the competition.
12-14-2018, 04:39 AM - 2 Likes   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't think it is too hard to understand, but if SLR sales are declining, it is either because they are losing sales (to mirrorless ILCs or smartphones) or that the market has matured and people aren't replacing their cameras nearly as often.
There is a very similar situation in the PC world. For three decades everybody and his dog wanted one, and they were tossing their PCs in the skip every couple of years and buying a faster one. The ad-men were in clover, with ever faster CPUs, bigger memory and bigger hard drives to hype and sell, and new requirements such as muli-media and connectivity. The suddenly the majority of the population found that a tablet, and then a smartphone, did all they needed, albeit worse but more conveniently. That's why Apple moved to phones (Microsoft tried to get into phones but failed). Meanwhile traditional PCs reached a point where they do everything that people need, FTTB at least.

Nevertheless there will always be a hardcore of PC users - businesses, gamers and the more serious home users. The desktop/laptop PC market will not disappear, just stabilise as a smaller and probably more expensive and higher quality market - the latter because the remaining customers are more knowledgable and picky. I believe that ILCs will do the same.

Last edited by Lord Lucan; 12-14-2018 at 04:41 AM. Reason: Typo
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