Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
09-29-2008, 12:57 AM   #16
Senior Member




Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 232
Because of the monopolist brown nosing culture of other brands, you will find that 9 out of 10 salesmen tell you to "forget pentax", so ignore that and make up your own mind like a real intellectual human being and not a drone.
I love my K20D and seeing as this kind of topic has come up 8000283782378 times on these forums in the time it took me to grow my hair 1 cm, I will say it once once. Get what you feel and not what others/salesmen/reviewers/idiots feel. This is my second pentax, and I won't change, im dead happy!

Here is an example of a real intellectual human being:
QuoteOriginally posted by nulla Quote
Also I jumped straight into the K20 as my first digital DSLR after being a Nikon film man years back and find it a great camera that more than caters for my needs in photography....... the Pentax glass is magic and I am a proud 100% pentax only lens person
By the way, lucky you, Im planning to cross over to pentax glass only too

09-29-2008, 07:25 AM   #17
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boston, PRofMA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,053
QuoteOriginally posted by laissezfaire Quote
So I can set the K20 up so that the popup flash will help with low light assist but no flash is used?

Also, I don't remember seeing an ISO button. That is also nice in low light.
Turn off the flash in the settings instead of leaving it in auto. Leave the popup flash up and the K10D/K20D will use it for AF assist (just like the Canon dSLRs).

What do you want to use the ISO button for? I put my ISO control on the dial when running in a mode I want to control ISO in. Usually, I just let it run through a range 100-400 or 100-800, and change shutter/aperture since I care more about them.
09-29-2008, 08:08 AM   #18
Pentaxian
audiobomber's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sudbury, Ontario
Photos: Albums
Posts: 6,641
QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
What do you want to use the ISO button for? I put my ISO control on the dial when running in a mode I want to control ISO in. Usually, I just let it run through a range 100-400 or 100-800, and change shutter/aperture since I care more about them.
That's the way I look at it. I let the camera choose within a range of ISO values and I don't worry about it. Most of the time with the K100DS I used ISO 200-1600, with the K20D I use 100-3200. Denoising is easily done, but a blurry photo from camera shake or subject movement cannot be saved. Both cameras have very good high ISO performance, so why not use it? The K20D has about 2/3 stop better ISO than the K100DS, and the K20 has S-mode if I want to control ISO.

There are two applications where shake reduction is especially useful; low light shooting and long focal lengths. You can get VR in a long lens from Nikon but you pay extra for every lens. I use a 50mm f1.4 for low ligh shooting. In the Pentax system, wide aperture primes have shake reduction applied. Not so with Nikon. Nikonicon shooters say SR is not necessary in a 50mm lens. Maybe not necessary, but definitely a MAJOR advantage IME.

Maybe salespeople don't like Pentax because Pentaxians can buy high quality MF primes for $30 on eBay.
09-29-2008, 08:58 AM   #19
Veteran Member
WMBP's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dallas, Texas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,496
QuoteOriginally posted by laissezfaire Quote
So I currently have the K100D Super and have a DA* 50-135mm ordered and on the way... I was told to spend money on the glass and not on the body unless my skills developed to a point in which I needed more. I like this advice since there will be more and more technology every year, but good glass will remain good glass.
You're on the right path so far.


QuoteQuote:
Having said that, I'm strongly considering upgrading to the K20 as I'm tired of going through the menus for everything and can't take the autofocus speed of the K100DS in low light which is my top gripe.
The principle that lenses matter more than bodies does NOT mean that bodies are unimportant. If you feel the need to get a body with more controls on the outside (or to get any of the other advantages of another model), well, then it's just a matter of budget.


QuoteQuote:
All of those out there with the K20 (and maybe even experience with Nikons), please help. Am I missing anything?

K20 Pros
- I have my budding Pentax lens collection (2) soon to be 3, including the 50-135.
- weathersealing and build construction, including metal mounts on all but the cheapest new lenses
- high MP sensor, although I honestly think 10 or 12 MP is fine. I guess CMOS is good though, the D90 also has this.
I agree that the difference between 14.6 MP and 12 MP is not a big deal as far as image quality or print potential goes. I don't count the K20D's higher res as a significant advantage.

Weather-sealing and solid build are important, or CAN be important - but the fact that they are aren't found even in all high-end cameras (for example: Canon 5D) suggests pretty clearly that not all serious photographers regard weather-sealing as CRITICAL. I don't.

I've said it hear before: The advantages of the K20D are fairly simple. It is a nicely built and - more important - nicely designed body. The ergonomics are a real treat. If you shoot a lot of photographs, you'll appreciate this more than you might if you shoot fewer photographs. In-body image stabilization is an important advantage of the Pentax line as compared to the Nikon and Canon lines. The importance of this feature can, I think, be inferred from the fact that nearly every other camera maker today EXCEPT Canon and Nikon has in-body stabilization. Finally - and perhaps most important - the K20D is considerably more affordable than comparable cameras from Canon and Nikon. Since some of those comparable cameras also have pretty nice ergonomics, in my judgment, it really boils down to affordability.


QuoteQuote:
K20 Cons
- no WB button, Auto WB on Pentax is not so good indoors, thus this is even more critical. If I had to pick my #2 gripe about my K100DS, it's WB.
I don't think this is a problem. I shoot raw 99.9% of the time and I keep the white balance set to auto. I (almost) never have a problem that can't be solved with a click in post-processing, and to be honest, I really don't have to correct white balance very often in post, either.



QuoteQuote:
Nikon D90 pros
- I just tried this out. The feature set is impressive, especially the 920k-dot (VGA) screen and interesting movie mode.
- IQ is tested to be equal to the D300
- focus speed is very fast, 4.5 fps is nice
- lens based IS seems to perform better than sensor based - is this true?
From what I've read, it does seem to be true - but not significant in most situations. In-camera image stabilization is very good and you have it all the time. Lens-based image stabilization is perhaps slightly better, but only occasionally - and of course you get its benefits only if you're using a stabilized lens. By "better only occasionally" I mean that, if the body-based stabilization does the job, then for that job, it's every bit as good as expensive lens-based stabilization. You might think of the analogy of tripods. A pretty good tripod is actually 100% as good as a GREAT tripod about 90% of the time. I'm making up the "90%" but you get the point. I'd really like to do a shoot-out comparing the K20D's stabilization to the results obtained by, say, a Nikon with a VR lens attached. I'm pretty sure nobody would be able to tell the difference in 99%+ of the shots.



QuoteQuote:
Nikon D90 cons
- Feels cheaper, a bit more plasticy
Something to that, but remember, it's about the lenses, not the bodies. And, I might add, it's not just about the lenses but about the SYSTEM. And a Nikon system has some advantages that go beyond the lenses.


QuoteQuote:
- Lenses are more expensive and when similarly priced have plastic mounts, even for mid priced ones (e.g. the DA* 50-135 was $750 vs. plastic Nikon 18-200 mm VR at $640)
Yep.


QuoteQuote:
Overall, I guess, my limited experience tells me that the pentax has great, fairly priced glass, even for the enthusiast like me. Nikon has some very nice technology in their cameras but offer cheap glass for the consumer at high prices.
Well, it's only money. There are, I have no doubt, more high-quality new lenses available for Nikon (or Canon) mount than for Pentax. Most pro photographers may be sheep but they're not STUPID sheep. The best Pentax lenses are as good as the best Nikon and Canon lenses. But they're not better. Where's the advantage? The Pentax lenses generally are much more reasonably priced.

QuoteQuote:
Every single camera salesperson I run into says, "forget Pentax, get a Canon or Nikon". It's quite amazing.
Ignore what sales people say. Sales of Canon and Nikon stuff butters their bread. Plus, I meet an awful lot of camera sales people who (a) know NOTHING AT ALL about Pentax and who therefore can't be counted on for a fair comparison in terms of quality alone, and (b) who don't even know very much about Nikon and Canon. I know good sales people, too, and don't mean to slander anybody here who happens to sell retail cameras. But it's just a fact: an awful lot of sales folks in every field (cars, computers, clothing, cameras) know shockingly little about the stuff they're selling.

Unfortunately, if you ask professional photographers (instead of sales people), you'll get the same advice, and the pros DO kind of know what they're talking about.


QuoteQuote:
Finally, the Pentax message board and community is incredible, and the level on knowledge on the Nikonians board doesn't come close. it may be in that board, I just can't find it!
And that may be really important. Pentax users are a BIT (just a bit) like Apple computer users in the 1990s: a self-supporting community. Something to be said for that. But we need that self support in ways the Nikon and Canon folks don't.

Will

09-29-2008, 09:01 AM   #20
Pentaxian
aleonx3's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Brampton, Ontario
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,876
QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
In the Pentax system, wide aperture primes have shake reduction applied. Not so with Nikon. Nikonicon shooters say SR is not necessary in a 50mm lens. Maybe not necessary, but definitely a MAJOR advantage IME.
Try using 1/30 shutter speed hand-held on a 85mm f1.8 without IS, you know what I mean, it is definitely an advantage.
09-29-2008, 09:49 AM   #21
Damn Brit
Guest




QuoteOriginally posted by laissezfaire Quote
... I was told to spend money on the glass and not on the body unless my skills developed to a point in which I needed more. I like this advice since there will be more and more technology every year, but good glass will remain good glass.
You haven't said how much your skill has developed and I can only find a few pictures that you posted early on so I will assume that your reasons for upgrading are for more functionality. You will definitely get more functionality but at the same time most of the controls and functions will be familiar to you so your learning curve will be easier than if you switch systems.

AWB isn't bad, it's different, it's designed to give the photographer more control of their shooting. It's just unfortunate that Pentax haven't been more vocal in their defense of it.

In one of your posts you mentioned that you travel to undeveloped countries a lot where AA batteries are desirable so I'm assuming you will want to keep your K100 super for that purpose. If you buy the K20, you keep the same system and don't need two sets of lenses.

Last edited by Damn Brit; 09-29-2008 at 12:41 PM.
09-29-2008, 10:08 AM   #22
Senior Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 168
QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
Turn off the flash in the settings instead of leaving it in auto. Leave the popup flash up and the K10D/K20D will use it for AF assist (just like the Canon dSLRs)....
I have a K10D but have never quite figured out how to use the flash for AF assist. How exactly do you turn off the flash in the settings? I don't see that as an option in the flash Function menu.

Richard
09-29-2008, 11:43 AM   #23
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boston, PRofMA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,053
QuoteOriginally posted by Old Timer 56 Quote
I have a K10D but have never quite figured out how to use the flash for AF assist. How exactly do you turn off the flash in the settings?
You work around it (Pentax should have added a flash option though) by turning on wireless flash, then going into setup and setting the built-in flash as "controller" instead of "master". You'll still see a bit of flash contribution from the popup flash, so just go into the shooting menu and set the popup flash to -2ev comp.
That's how I do it on my K10D...

09-29-2008, 10:08 PM   #24
Pentaxian
raider's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Perth, Australia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,931
I have a friend who recently upgraded from k10D to the D90. Personally I would follow suit if :

1. the D90 has a FF/BF adjustment settings for each individual lens just like the K20D.
2. the D90 has the TaV control just like the k10D/K20D.

Maybe you should consider the above if you are intending to get the D90 over the k20D.
09-29-2008, 10:10 PM   #25
Damn Brit
Guest




QuoteOriginally posted by raider Quote
I have a friend who recently upgraded from k10D to the D90. Personally I would follow suit if :

1. the D90 has a FF/BF adjustment settings for each individual lens just like the K20D.
2. the D90 has the TaV control just like the k10D/K20D.

Maybe you should consider the above if you are intending to get the D90 over the k20D.
I second those two points. I use TaV most of the time.
09-29-2008, 10:10 PM   #26
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Tri-Cities, British Columbia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,784
I absolutely love this function on the K10D as well; not sure if current C* or N* DSLRs do the same thing (my older C* D60 definitely didn't) but it makes it much quicker and efficient to judge what the optimal WB settings should be.

Just getting my feet wet with being able to tweak the WB settings but I did notice that images came out looking a bit cooler than I like with AWB.

QuoteOriginally posted by Stratario Quote
While tweeking, the last picture that you took will automatically come on the screen and you can see the colours changing as you are tweeking the WB. That way you get it 100% accurate to your eyes.
09-29-2008, 10:11 PM   #27
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Tri-Cities, British Columbia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,784
Just like the mindless salesmen at big box stores who thumb their noses at Macs or car dealers who downplay the Subaru.

QuoteOriginally posted by marlon Quote
Because of the monopolist brown nosing culture of other brands, you will find that 9 out of 10 salesmen tell you to "forget pentax", so ignore that and make up your own mind like a real intellectual human being and not a drone.
09-30-2008, 05:45 AM   #28
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toronto (for now)
Posts: 1,749
This is more a Pentax V Nikon system discussion than a body discussion. The sad truth is that you can buy a lot of fast Pentax zooms in the Nikon mount under the Tokina label at a cheaper price, purists will argue the lenses are different but they are more similar than different.

Look at the Tokina 12-24, 50-135 and 16-50 and you quickly see pentax branded versions are 20% more than the Tokina labelled ones.

This goes a long way towards ending the "Pentax is great value" label, especially with the D90 retailing at the same price as the 20D.

Nikon also offers a serious range of moderate WA zoms from 16-85 through 18-135.

Tot op it off the 3rd party lenses from Sigma/Tamron and now some Tokina lenses have in lens AF motors at a cheaper price then they sell the lens in a Pentax mount with no in lens motor.

Where Pentax does come out on top is in the range of uber compact, high quality primes. If these appeal to you then it's a no brainer. if you intend on using large/fast zooms then, well ...imho i am not seeing a lot of reasons to stick with pentax right now.
09-30-2008, 07:31 AM   #29
Veteran Member
WMBP's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dallas, Texas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,496
QuoteOriginally posted by raider Quote
I have a friend who recently upgraded from k10D to the D90. Personally I would follow suit if :

....
2. the D90 has the TaV control just like the k10D/K20D.

Sorry that I don't have a D90 and don't have time to research this but thought I would throw in something that someone else may be able to provide better info on. I too am a big fan of the K10D/K20D's TAv mode. A while back, in this forum, I asked if other camera bodies have this feature. You can read the thread here:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/20789-tav-unique-pentax.html

The answer was that some of these bodies DO have something that is more or less the same thing (functionally) as TAv. It's not a special mode on the mode dial, but it's auto-ISO in M mode, which is exactly what TAv is.

Based on my reading of the user's manual for the D90 (downloadable from Nikon's site), it appears that the D90 does indeed support auto-ISO in M mode. See p. 78 of that manual. It does seem that using auto-ISO in M mode on the D90 is not as convenient as having a TAv mode right there on the dial. But that's not a huge deal.

Will
09-30-2008, 08:10 AM   #30
Pentaxian
audiobomber's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sudbury, Ontario
Photos: Albums
Posts: 6,641
QuoteOriginally posted by Alfisti Quote
Look at the Tokina 12-24, 50-135 and 16-50 and you quickly see pentax branded versions are 20% more than the Tokina labelled ones.
But none of them are stabilized on a Canon or Nikon body.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
board, camera, cons, d90, dslr, glass, k20, light, nikon, pentax, photography, sensor, wb
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K20 upgrade to K7 or Kx GaryH Pentax DSLR Discussion 25 05-02-2010 06:35 PM
Contemplating a K20 upgrade lats Pentax DSLR Discussion 10 02-21-2010 07:16 PM
Should I upgrade to a K7 or wait?? K20 is doing me well.. CaymanImaging Pentax DSLR Discussion 11 11-27-2009 12:46 PM
Should K20 owners see a firmware upgrade... WheresWaldo Pentax DSLR Discussion 36 06-09-2009 08:25 AM
upgrade 2 K20 pentax_mad Pentax DSLR Discussion 9 07-16-2008 03:26 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:50 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top