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10-09-2008, 08:56 AM   #61
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Good decision Clicker. Even though Nikon's AF system if generally faster, I've found that Pentax SLRs can control noise at higher ISOs much better.

10-09-2008, 10:54 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by laissezfaire Quote
So I currently have the K100D Super and have a DA* 50-135mm ordered and on the way... I was told to spend money on the glass and not on the body unless my skills developed to a point in which I needed more. I like this advice since there will be more and more technology every year, but good glass will remain good glass.

Having said that, I'm strongly considering upgrading to the K20 as I'm tired of going through the menus for everything and can't take the autofocus speed of the K100DS in low light which is my top gripe.

All of those out there with the K20 (and maybe even experience with Nikons), please help. Am I missing anything?

K20 Pros
- I have my budding Pentax lens collection (2) soon to be 3, including the 50-135.
- weathersealing and build construction, including metal mounts on all but the cheapest new lenses
- high MP sensor, although I honestly think 10 or 12 MP is fine. I guess CMOS is good though, the D90 also has this.

K20 Cons
- no WB button, Auto WB on Pentax is not so good indoors, thus this is even more critical. If I had to pick my #2 gripe about my K100DS, it's WB.
- no low light AF assist, I'm surprised more DSLRs don't have this, even my $100 P&S has this
- slower shutter speed

Nikon D90 pros
- I just tried this out. The feature set is impressive, especially the 920k-dot (VGA) screen and interesting movie mode.
- IQ is tested to be equal to the D300
- focus speed is very fast, 4.5 fps is nice
- lens based IS seems to perform better than sensor based - is this true?
- it has the low light focusing light assist

Nikon D90 cons
- Feels cheaper, a bit more plasticy
- Lenses are more expensive and when similarly priced have plastic mounts, even for mid priced ones (e.g. the DA* 50-135 was $750 vs. plastic Nikon 18-200 mm VR at $640)
- selling for list price, but competitive at $999 base only.

Overall, I guess, my limited experience tells me that the pentax has great, fairly priced glass, even for the enthusiast like me. Nikon has some very nice technology in their cameras but offer cheap glass for the consumer at high prices.

Every single camera salesperson I run into says, "forget Pentax, get a Canon or Nikon". It's quite amazing.

Finally, the Pentax message board and community is incredible, and the level on knowledge on the Nikonians board doesn't come close. it may be in that board, I just can't find it!
I dont want to promote Nikon in any way but what you say about the plasic feel is incorrect. That plastic is covering a titanium body. The body is built to last on the D90. Also dont worry about lenses because any Ai lens will work on that camera. You dont need a new digital lens for great shots.

I know because I've been looking for a good digital camer to handle my M42's, this seems to be an area that the Nikon falls short.
10-09-2008, 10:59 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by MidwestMax Quote
Good decision Clicker. Even though Nikon's AF system if generally faster, I've found that Pentax SLRs can control noise at higher ISOs much better.
According to the field test Nikon is by far superior in this area also. I took a look at the shots and even at the higher film speeds Nikon showed very good clarity in fact I believe they rate it best in it's class in ths area.

Once again, I'm not supporting Nikon in anyway. I happened to come across these findings while searching for a digital that suits my needs. Thats how I ended up at this forum.
10-09-2008, 11:46 AM   #64
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spiralcity: what field test are you referring to and which Nikon was tested? The D90?

10-09-2008, 11:56 AM   #65
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It might have been mentioned, but if you look at the high iso photos at DCRP from the nikon D90 vs K20d there is a substantial difference in noise. The K20D at 400 is like the Nikon at 1600 to me.

As for me, I want a K20D but am afraid that the K30D or whatever will be out when I buy K20D. Additionally, the prices are now not comparable since you can get a K20D at Amazon for about $850.00
10-09-2008, 12:35 PM   #66
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From those tests at DCRP it does seem like Nikon has enhanced it's high ISO quality with the D90 compared to the D80, D50, etc.

But still, I can't see paying a grand for a camera without weather sealing. Like you said, jdnaples, the K20D is only $850 now. As for the K30D, I can't see that being introduced until late next summer anyway. I don't think I'm going to hold out for that, but we'll see.
10-09-2008, 03:40 PM   #67
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laissezfaire

for me the deciding factors were:

* I'm not a pro, my equipment will not make me money, so value per shot is key here.
* I took an inventory of what i like to shoot regularly...the K200/20Ds will cover it all.
* What i shoot now; street/urban portraiture includes landscapes, indoor racquet sports like badminton and table tennis indoors among other outdoor activities. I play the sports so i know how to photograph them with any quirks thrown at me, here's where i decided adding the K20D for it low light and faster focusing capabilities. The other features are gravy. I'll just have to invest in faster lenses by Pentax or a third party manufacturer. (I have already decided what i would need to get in the future)

* Going thru all of the above especially cost per shot as a non-pro, staying completely with Pentax gave me good "overall" value. Now i know you're particular about the controls on your current K100d, possible K20D vs the D90, this is why you have to go thru what i did then sit down and decide what is going to give you the best value per shot before you invest any further into your Pentax system.

Do you want to take a loss now and jump to another system and get the same shot or do you want to invest and upgrade your current system and still get the same shot?

I hope that didn't confuse you more ...LOL but it's all good that brand "X" has this and brand "Y" has that, but in the end i'm pretty sure you'll end up with the same photo unless you want to shoot video then Pentax is definitely off your list.

btw i just got off a 2x35mm system, don't gasp but i gave my entire Canon system to my loving nephews as they genuinely seemed very interested in shooting, i hope they make good images from the "L" lenses and the telescope i gave them.

Last edited by Clicker; 10-09-2008 at 03:46 PM.
10-09-2008, 09:59 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by MidwestMax Quote
spiralcity: what field test are you referring to and which Nikon was tested? The D90?

Feild test

Digital Camera Resource Page Review: Nikon D90

I understand from the field test that the K20D constantly underexposes by at least 1/3 stop. You can find the field test in the same link I supplied for the Nikon D90 just type in K20D.

I still prefer the K20D because it will handle my M42 lenses. I'm sure it's a very good camera and the price is great.

IMHO it's best not to compare the Pentax cameras to others in the market, instead just boast about the good qualities the cameras offer and keep posting the great pictures the cameras are capable of taking.


Last edited by spiralcity; 10-09-2008 at 10:17 PM.
10-09-2008, 10:15 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by MidwestMax Quote
From those tests at DCRP it does seem like Nikon has enhanced it's high ISO quality with the D90 compared to the D80, D50, etc.

But still, I can't see paying a grand for a camera without weather sealing. Like you said, jdnaples, the K20D is only $850 now. As for the K30D, I can't see that being introduced until late next summer anyway. I don't think I'm going to hold out for that, but we'll see.

Check the reports, the D90's have weather sealing.

Last edited by spiralcity; 10-09-2008 at 10:24 PM.
10-10-2008, 04:38 AM   #70
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Well spiral, I would suggest you buy the Nikon, find a Nikon forum, and go talk about how great your Nikon is there
10-10-2008, 06:07 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by spiralcity Quote
Check the reports, the D90's have weather sealing.

I checked the D90's features on DCRP, Amazon, and Dpreview. While an impressive list, I still don't see anything about weather seals. Bottom line, the K20D appears to be far more durable.
10-10-2008, 06:22 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by spiralcity Quote
Field test

Digital Camera Resource Page Review: Nikon D90

I understand from the field test that the K20D constantly underexposes by at least 1/3 stop. You can find the field test in the same link I supplied for the Nikon D90 just type in K20D.
Pentax is maybe known for underexposure, but it happens that knowing the camera helps for most things. I know when the camera metering needs some adjustment.
Regarding other brands, the D80 was reported to over-expose quite a bit.

I do actually prefer some under-exposure, as you can bring out more details in shadows than in highlights.


(And I do not have anything against Nikon, really, if Pentax did not exist, I would probably end up with Nikon.)
10-10-2008, 10:49 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Stratman Quote
Well spiral, I would suggest you buy the Nikon, find a Nikon forum, and go talk about how great your Nikon is there
WOW!!!!
I suggest shutting your trap.

Dont shoot the messanger, it's not my fault what the field reports show.

I'll buy what I want and I'll post where I want. If you dont like it dont read it, and move on.

Plus I have nothing negative to say about Penatx, I happen to own many of their great lenses. If you would have read all my post you would see that I decided on the K20D.
10-10-2008, 10:50 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by MidwestMax Quote
I checked the D90's features on DCRP, Amazon, and Dpreview. While an impressive list, I still don't see anything about weather seals. Bottom line, the K20D appears to be far more durable.
It's sealed at 7 main points.
10-10-2008, 11:00 AM   #75
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That's weird... I wonder why Nikon wouldn't market the weather seals as one of its key features.

By the way, where on the DCRP review does it mention the 7 weather seals?
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