[Clicker]

The only Nikon truly weather proofed is the D3, the rest have "enhanced" sealing (weather resistant); whereas in the Pentax line up, K20/200/10D are TRUE weather BEASTS.
One reason i myself moved to the "entry-level" K200D as a travel system but now making it my only DSLR system adding the K20D in the near future.

[Stratman]

WOW!!!!
I suggest shutting your trap.

Dont shoot the messanger, it's not my fault what the field reports show.

I'll buy what I want and I'll post where I want. If you dont like it dont read it, and move on.

Plus I have nothing negative to say about Penatx, I happen to own many of their great lenses. If you would have read all my post you would see that I decided on the K20D.

Apparently you didn't see my smiley at the end....was just lightening up the mood, sorry if it was misinterpreted...

[laissezfaire]

Folks, I'm the original poster.

I've made up my mind. I love the 50-135 too much. I love the "feel" of our Pentax cameras too much... none of that cheap feeling rubber pieces everywhere. The extra MPs of the K20D allow for more cropping capabilities as exhibited by many of you here. The customization features that I've been reading up on are unique.

I don't want to be the canikon owner who drops $3K on equipment, then uses the kit lens and "Auto" mode (yes, I know one). But most importantly, I would be embarrassed to carry around a camera that is promoted by Ashton Kutcher. What a cheeseball.

[spiralcity]

Apparently you didn't see my smiley at the end....was just lightening up the mood, sorry if it was misinterpreted...

stratman,
I jumped the gun. I just wanted you to know I have nothing against the great Pentaxt K20D, I think it's a fine camera and one I intend to own.

[spiralcity]

The only Nikon truly weather proofed is the D3, the rest have "enhanced" sealing (weather resistant); whereas in the Pentax line up, K20/200/10D are TRUE weather BEASTS.
One reason i myself moved to the "entry-level" K200D as a travel system but now making it my only DSLR system adding the K20D in the near future.

Yes, this is true.

[kmanlaker]

But most importantly, I would be embarrassed to carry around a camera that is promoted by Ashton Kutcher. What a cheeseball.[/QUOTE]

and for this reason I thought about not buying the nikon d90. But I did anyway.
For the record I own the K10d with the kit lens, the DA*16-50 f2.8, DA*50-135 f2.8 and the 70mm limited -- all of this is a very nice set-up and i right now have no intention of selling. But --- when I dumped my Canon stuff i missed the high ISO noise less cmos. We all know that the K10d is not exactly the king of high ISO, but I will say that with the very nice DA* zooms it is one hell of an image maker at 400iso and less. In fact these lenses in my opinion blow canon's out of the water except for my old "L" 70-200 f4 with IS. So I was left to decide either I get the K20 or get the Nikon 90D with kit lens. Nothing againest the k20 but I decided I wanted to have both systems . And I am well aware of the differences between these two bodies. I have shot with the d90 for a couple of weeks and I can tell you this much so far ( I have not had time to mess with raw files -- sorry ) the K10 jpegs appear to me to be much better then the nikon at this point at low ISO. Please realize I have not played with the nikon's settings, thay are all set at default. But I can also report that at high ISO settings there is no contest and rightly so the as I am comparing an older CCD to Nikons newer CMOS. So in all fairness I really needed to compare the K20d which I do not own. So for now I have 2 systems which is going to be interesting and hopefully not too expensive to maintain with LBA and CBA

kman

[Clicker]

Folks, I'm the original poster.

I've made up my mind. I love the 50-135 too much. I love the "feel" of our Pentax cameras too much... none of that cheap feeling rubber pieces everywhere. The extra MPs of the K20D allow for more cropping capabilities as exhibited by many of you here. The customization features that I've been reading up on are unique.

I don't want to be the canikon owner who drops $3K on equipment, then uses the kit lens and "Auto" mode (yes, I know one). But most importantly, I would be embarrassed to carry around a camera that is promoted by Ashton Kutcher. What a cheeseball.

I think you'll be quite happy with your decision, i'll be getting mine as my christmas present to myself as i have enough ties now LOL

[spiralcity]

But most importantly, I would be embarrassed to carry around a camera that is promoted by Ashton Kutcher. What a cheeseball.

and for this reason I thought about not buying the nikon d90. But I did anyway.
For the record I own the K10d with the kit lens, the DA*16-50 f2.8, DA*50-135 f2.8 and the 70mm limited -- all of this is a very nice set-up and i right now have no intention of selling. But --- when I dumped my Canon stuff i missed the high ISO noise less cmos. We all know that the K10d is not exactly the king of high ISO, but I will say that with the very nice DA* zooms it is one hell of an image maker at 400iso and less. In fact these lenses in my opinion blow canon's out of the water except for my old "L" 70-200 f4 with IS. So I was left to decide either I get the K20 or get the Nikon 90D with kit lens. Nothing againest the k20 but I decided I wanted to have both systems . And I am well aware of the differences between these two bodies. I have shot with the d90 for a couple of weeks and I can tell you this much so far ( I have not had time to mess with raw files -- sorry ) the K10 jpegs appear to me to be much better then the nikon at this point at low ISO. Please realize I have not played with the nikon's settings, thay are all set at default. But I can also report that at high ISO settings there is no contest and rightly so the as I am comparing an older CCD to Nikons newer CMOS. So in all fairness I really needed to compare the K20d which I do not own. So for now I have 2 systems which is going to be interesting and hopefully not too expensive to maintain with LBA and CBA

kman[/QUOTE]


hmmmmm, thats an interseting find about the jpeg imaging.
I seen the field test as mentioned above and posted the links, I think everyone should look there for accurate and unbiased info.

I chose the K20D because she will make my lenses happy and she seems like a great camera. If I would have gone by the field test,well that would have been a different story.

I plan on having more than one digital camera just like with my film cameras. I'll start with the K20D then most likley move on to something else after I research it and make sure it suits my needs.

[Clicker]

make sure it suits my needs.

That's the key for one's shooting needs.

[KjetilH]

The only Nikon truly weather proofed is the D3, the rest have "enhanced" sealing (weather resistant); whereas in the Pentax line up, K20/200/10D are TRUE weather BEASTS.

Beasts, well, call it "weather sealed".
The Olympus E-3 is truly a beast, reviewers were particularly asked to put in the sink and take pictures with the water flowing over it.

Anyway, I would feel more than safe enough with the Pentax models outside, just got to pick.

[MidwestMax]

So I was in New York and stopped in at Willoughby's. I took a look at the K20D again and the D90, just for kicks. The ergonomics of the K20D are superior--it just feels better. The viewfinders both offer about the same size perspective, but the K20D's seems brighter. I can't comment much on image quality because it was a brief test, but the salesman there claimed that the D90's IQ is a little better. It could be true, but who knows? Has anyone here spent a good amount of time with both?

[aleonx3]

- lens based IS seems to perform better than sensor based - is this true?

I am in the same boat - lurking around for my next upgrade.

I would not trade for lens based IS system since I mostly shoot normal or wide - and don't know if there is any lens based IS normal/wide lens that is as good as my limited primes and priced reasonably. Also with narrow DOF, camera shake is critical; sensor based IS works well.

Every single camera salesperson I run into says, "forget Pentax, get a Canon or Nikon". It's quite amazing.

They all think that it is easier to make a sale if you choose Canon or Nikon (because most of them think that you don't know better). Reminds me of the old days when IT executives are saying you can't go wrong by buying computer equipment from IBM - typical herd mentally.

BTW, although the specs on the D90 is similar or better in some respects to K20D, I was under the impression that the KxxD line should be on par with the Dxxx line rather than the Dxx line. So, if I go with upgrade from K10D to the D90, I am going backwards; I could be wrong - . My next upgrade should be say considering K20D or K30D or D300 instead. I have owned both K100D and K10D, I can tell you that K10D is a lot more camera (with rich features and convenience) than the K100D .

[laissezfaire]

So I was in New York and stopped in at Willoughby's. I took a look at the K20D again and the D90, just for kicks. The ergonomics of the K20D are superior--it just feels better. The viewfinders both offer about the same size perspective, but the K20D's seems brighter. I can't comment much on image quality because it was a brief test, but the salesman there claimed that the D90's IQ is a little better. It could be true, but who knows? Has anyone here spent a good amount of time with both?

Before I made my final decision, I spent a considerable amount of time with both. While I cannot scientifically state that one has better IQ than the other, I believe they are somewhat comparable, but consider this:
* as you noted, the feel of the K20D is like an instrument, the D90 feels like a tech gadget, e.g. plastic feel.
* the kit lens on the D90 and many of the lenses, are in fact plastic mounts. can you imagine a plastic mount lasting 10-20 years?
* the customization level is excellent on the K20D
* DA* quality lens equivalents on a Nikon system cost over twice as much
* the movie mode and extra high res screen impressed me with the D90, but as I get more and more into photography, those features are less meaningful to me, as is live view, which is completely useless for my purposes
* the extra MPs let you do the following: shot in JPEG in low dawn light, 50mm, F4, 1/180, ISO 200, +2 Exposure

who needs a zoom lens when you can crop like crazy with this camera?

[MidwestMax]

Thanks for that cropped sample laissezfaire--the detail holds up very well.

From your experience, how does it perform in low light though, where you have to raise the ISO level up to say 1600?

[laissezfaire]

Thanks for that cropped sample laissezfaire--the detail holds up very well.

From your experience, how does it perform in low light though, where you have to raise the ISO level up to say 1600?

I just took this shot under low tungsten light, JPEG, ISO 1600 and cropped close to compare the dark areas and colors. I adjusted from weakest, weak to strong noise reduction, but in all honestly, I can't tell the difference.

All these were handheld shots, no way it would come out this crisp w/o shake reduction. 1) crop - NR weakest, 2) crop - NR weak, 3) crop - NR strong, 4) resized - NR strong.

these are all handheld, taken from slightly different positions and NOT LAB quality at all, but it tells me that I like the detail of the "weakest" setting, the best.