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01-17-2019, 03:58 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by MadMathMind Quote
1) At my girlfriend's black belt test, the K-1 was unable to keep up with the motion and I got just a few usable images from this once-in-a-lifetime event.
2) We went to Disneyland and I just wanted to take a few snapshots of her in her costume. I had to take over 15 clicks before I got one in acceptable focus.
3) At f/3.5 from a few feet away, one of the best poses from a photoshoot turned out to be slightly out of focus, all copies of them. I do review as I shoot and the screen wasn't quite good enough to show this. I kept the shot as it was 85% ok, but it's going to show when the image is printed.
I don't understand all these issues with focus. Were you using paper-thin DOF? My style depends on providing context, so I typically use F/4 or narrower, and virtually none of my human subjects are out-of-focus ..... only animals could run fast enough to give my K-30 problems.

Nikon is said to excel in focusing, so if that is your issue, they should be just right for you. My main interest is in high ISO, and my KP really delivers there, but I don't fill any buffer very often.

01-17-2019, 04:06 PM - 5 Likes   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I don't understand all these issues with focus. Were you using paper-thin DOF?.
The main issue with Pentax AF is focus lock - doesn't happen in time consistently, with moving subjects, especially in low light. This is what Nikon is known for, and you can usually detect the difference even with lower-end Nikons.

To me, this has always been Pentax's biggest failing. Fix that - somehow - and you are a niche brand-with-a-bullet that can survive on IQ and charm.
01-17-2019, 04:09 PM - 4 Likes   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by zman Quote
I agree with three of your facts. "I don't think Pentax is bad" , "other systems have many more options" , and "autofocus is a big concern". So we do share some similar concerns. But I'm too old and have too much invested in my Pentax gear to dump it. Plus, I also use a m4/3 system now as much as my Pentax.
Get into a system you'll enjoy and feel more comfortable and satisfied with. Good luck.
I identify with your comments! Due to age & health, My recently acquired Oly Pen-f kit (m43) is first choice. The body tech is excellent and the lenses integrate very well. I still see merits in my Pentax investments, but it’s spell has been broken! Fwiw, if I had not sold my OM-1 original for a Spotmatic, I never would have met all of you in this wonderful forum! 😊
01-17-2019, 04:14 PM - 3 Likes   #34
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I had Pentax (K100Ds, K20D, K5, K5-IIs, K-3, K-1, K-1 II) and a lot of lenses (best for me were for example FA31, FA43, FA77 and DA*300) but I sold it all. why?
good focus only on center and not always, the production of new modern lenses has slowed...

now I have Sony A7R3 with EyeAF and good focus out of center (in april 2019 new firmware with animal EyeAF) with Voigtländer 15/4,5 III + Sony FE28/2 + FE50/1,8 + FE85/1,8 and no problem.

what can we expect from CP + 2019 ? GRIII + HD11-18 and that is all. sadly.

01-17-2019, 04:19 PM - 4 Likes   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
It's already tempting to get the next best system, but it's very costly, there will always be something that the current model doesn't have or doesn't do.
This would be an adequate answer if cameras never wore out, if new photographers were happy to look past spec sheets and reviews, and if all anybody ever did was replace a working recent camera with a newer one. But that's not what is important. When my K-3II wears out or develops a fault...will I be happy buying another? Frankly no, there is much newer and better out there now, for the same price, and anyway it is now discontinued. Is there another flagship APSC for me to choose from in the Pentax line-up? No. Will there ever be? When? Nobody knows and in the interim, the competition is the only way to go. If that means selling my glass and buying fresh, that's better than just drumming my fingers waiting for the Ricoh glacier to calve a new camera.

What does a keen new photographer do when they've outgrown their phone, or is ready to move up to FF? Buy into Pentax? Why would they? There's some good kit probably coming some time in the next decade, so buy now, kids! In the meantime you can have fun hunting vintage glass on ebay to go with your shiny new FF camera!

For a company with a dedicated but small customer base, the most crucial thing is to replace those customers that are leaving, and bring in even more new ones. With nothing to sell them, that's a pretty tall order. It is definitely a chicken/egg scenario, but without a compelling product for them to buy, all is lost.
01-17-2019, 04:28 PM - 2 Likes   #36

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Well, I do not think any lack seen by some professional photographers has any effect on potentially incoming new Pentaxians. Pentax has simply offered better by far entry-level models period, since the K-30, K-50 series and K-S2 arrived. Now even better yet with the K-70.

The Pentax flagship APS-C models, and the unique KP have been tops at their price point. The K-1 has been the first foray into the FF arena for Pentax. I tend to skip models that are new representations for a certain category. Perhaps some bugs have been ironed out in the Mark II. But over all, the K-1 has been evaluated as an outstanding FF model. After just 3 years, and the upgrade of now just 1 year, I think it premature to expect those to be scrapped for a new, redesigned FF model to appear this soon. As to its AF and action shooting, there have been mixed reviews, including a favorable outcome from a pair of camera store guys shooting a K-1 for moving dirt bike photos alongside a Nikon model. As to purple fringing with older lenses, yes, this can be problem with digital sensors. For me, my FF models are still my 35mm film bodies, which do not have this issue.

I am one of those who have experienced no severe problems with AF using my Pentax DSLRs, all of which are APS-C models, even when shooting fast-action, such as college roller hockey. That said, Nikon's AF has been notably superior to others for action AF tracking. If that is a special need, then you need it. Since Nikon has the potential to fill that need, then go for it and good luck!

I am also curious to see images taken with a Nikon FF body and 35mm prime lens compared to the same taken with the K-1 and FA 35mm lens, showing clear superiority for the Nikon gear. Same regarding the FA 31mm Limited vs. one of similar FL by Nikon.

I believe the reason for the Pentax Limited series, with the exception of the DA 20-40mm zoom lens, being still of the screw-driven variety, is that this conservative approach is backed by the solid reliability of this older technology.

I would like to see an upgraded DFA version of the fine FA 35mm f/2 and also a superior DFA 24mm f/1.8 or f/1.4 appear. New lenses were indeed offered along with the K-1. The DFA 15-30mm f/2.8, DFA 24-70mm f/2,8, and DFA 70-200mm f/2.8 all have proven to be excellent performers. Likewise with the DFA 28-105mm f/3.5-5.6 FF kit lens. The very fine DA* 300mm f/4 needs no replacement.

I agree that any equipment being tools for whatever need may be the case, there is nothing wrong with seeking out the right specialty tool for the job.

Last edited by mikesbike; 01-17-2019 at 05:33 PM.
01-17-2019, 04:35 PM - 2 Likes   #37
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To the OP there is a great line I read in a Tom Clancy book, I think the book was "the bear and the dragon, "

"Even if your belly is full, you are tempted to take fruit from your neighbour's tree, just to see if it tastes better"

I hope you enjoy where you are headed, if not we will welcome you back
01-17-2019, 04:49 PM - 1 Like   #38

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QuoteOriginally posted by victormeldrew Quote
This would be an adequate answer if cameras never wore out, if new photographers were happy to look past spec sheets and reviews, and if all anybody ever did was replace a working recent camera with a newer one. But that's not what is important. When my K-3II wears out or develops a fault...will I be happy buying another? Frankly no, there is much newer and better out there now, for the same price, and anyway it is now discontinued.
That's true for apsc, but that's not the case of the OP. He is replacing a new system that actually works fine is used properly, by another new system that works fine when used properly. Every car has a maximum load allowed, you can always say that you can load the other brand of cars 10% more, but that's an excuse you use to support a desire. Psychology of the sales is known for very long time, in sales we know that desire govern the purchase decision as long as they is enough facts that can be collected to support the original desire. In other words, claiming AF is the reason to switch brand is BS, anyone could also say "I need 50Mega pixel instead of 36, so I switch to Canon", it would also be BS. Anyone being a Canon customer can also claim that he must switch to Nikon because he "needs" the 100mm f1.4, that BS again. Our civilization is far evolved from stone age, everything we buy we don't actually need it, we desire it. Claiming rational stuff for switching brand is BS.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 01-17-2019 at 04:54 PM.
01-17-2019, 04:54 PM - 1 Like   #39

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That is one thing we are expecting fairly soon- a K-3 II replacement. And I'll bet it will be a good one!
01-17-2019, 05:00 PM - 1 Like   #40

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Interesting reading . First time I used AF was in 2007 with my new K10D and 16-45. I thought I had died and and gone to heaven. But then I came from a long experience (started in the late 1960's) of using nothing but manual focus cameras. Cameras I used back then included old Pentax film bodies, Mamiya , Zeiss Ikon and Yashica medium format, Leica rangefinder, etc.

I was pleased with how 'fast' my K10D and my next new lens (55-300) focused automatically...quickly I thought (perhaps in error after reading these posts) on everything from squirrels, Chickadees, pelicans, drag racing cars (and moving smartly along, at that) .

I've continued along, getting a K-5, K-1, other lenses from wide to tele and generally been happy and got a good number of long as I aim my lens...for the most part the AF follows through well. So much faster than using my old manual focus lenses and trying to get any kind of accuracy with speed.

I recently got a Pentax 100 F 2.8 Macro for my K-1 and other Pentax bodies. It was an Xmas present and I used it to great effect taking pictures of my 11 month old grandson. He is a fast moving little monkey and I have been mostly using available light...indoors...3200-6400 ISO, F 2.8 and for the most part I've been able to get some..what I consider...really sharp pix of our boy.

I think the DF A Macro 100 came out around 2010 and I recall the reviewer from Pop Photography magazine saying something about the 100 Macro being 'superb' or something like that. So to me and judging by it's's sort of an oldie ...but a goldie...IMHO. I guess it is around 9 years ago when it came out and I think it may have been based on the previous Pentax 100 Macro...and now that I think about probably does make some AF noise...but if these deficiencies hadn't been brought out as typical for Pentax glass...I don't think I would of noticed.

I think my problem is that I haven't the the latest from Canon, Nikon, I don't know what I'm missing and also considering I used manual focus lenses for decades...I maybe more impressed with the Pentax AF system than I should be.

But so far the Pentax AF works well for low light...available light...indoors. Part of it maybe the high ISO performance. Back in the film days if I pushed B&W 400 ASA to 800...the grain was big enough to trip over. But now with modern cameras like the K-1...the high ISO performance at 3200-6400, etc..compensates well...higher shutter speeds and very good results.

That is my experience and I'm not a pro, just an amateur, a my standards could well be different.. As others have got to go with the equipment you like and have confidence in. Go with your preference.

Last edited by lesmore49; 01-17-2019 at 05:41 PM.
01-17-2019, 05:09 PM - 2 Likes   #41
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First of all, thanks to everyone for the nice replies here! I kinda expected a lot of denials, but man, there's a lot of agreement with what I've found as the limits of Pentax. It doesn't make the whole system bad because nothing is perfect, but as my capabilities have evolved, so have my expectations and needs.

One last tick on AF: one thing that's also brought me to this point is I do a ton of big groups. My models are pretty patient (and no one has ever left me because of it), but it's a bit disheartening to hear a few sighs when we line up 10-14 girls in pose for a big group shot, take a few clicks, and then I review and.... "Ok, we need to get everyone in pose again! Focus isn't good enough...." It just takes so much time away to have to redo stuff.

But to offset some of my negativity, let me highlight a few things Pentax does really well. Or rather, features I'm going to miss:
1) The K-1 is the best feeling camera I've ever held. It is solid and simply a wonder to hold. Canon's stuff feel like toys and even this Nikon D850 has a plasticy feel to it in various places.
2) IBIS. I'm going to miss this a lot. It has let me do things others cannot, like shooting at low ISO for super clean images while others have had to use higher ones.
3) Backward compatibility. Pentax is nice about using SD cards and batteries over. I wasn't pleased to drop over $200 for a pair of QXD cards for the 850 just so I can use dual cards. And I still need one or two more so I don't run out of space on long shoots/trips. :/

QuoteOriginally posted by c.a.m Quote
For completeness, would you mind letting us know what gear you are thinking of getting to replace your Pentax kit? And does your business model provide for regular equipment upgrades, whatever they may be in the future?
I have a Nikon D850 for the body and the Tamron 85mm f/1.8 and 35mm f/1.8 and the Nikon 50mm f/1.4 for my lenses. We will find out how they do this weekend!

It does! I try stuff out and see how it does for me. If I'm liking it and it's doing what I need it to do, I keep it. I only look to replace stuff when there's something it's not doing for me I want it to do.

QuoteOriginally posted by foivosloxias Quote
What does Pentax offer? Slow, very slow and noisy focusing lenses designed 15+ years ago, or very expensive and not really good silent focusing lenses. Well if slow is better, I can still use my Canon A-1 with a 55mm f/1.2 and I do, just to remind myself of how it used to be back in 80's, that is 40 years ago.
Yeah, it's not the best selling point, to say the least.

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Aikido founder Morihei Ueshiba was photographed and filmed in 1957 with film equipment without autofocus. Usually, for this kind of shots, the skilled photographer doesn't try to track the rapid subject motion, the skilled photographer will set his camera shutter speed to 1/50th sec. in order to obtain a blur of the moving part that convey the sense of fast motion into a photographs. See example below: Aikido - Wikipedia
But he also wasn't viewing his images on 4K monitors with tons of resolution. We just have higher expectations these days because we can.

QuoteOriginally posted by victormeldrew Quote
I think not even the greatest Pentax fan can deny that the company's development progress since releasing the K-1 has been lacklustre at best, woefully inadequate at worst. To offer a shiny new FF DSLR and then point at a stable of decades-old lenses and expect buyers to be content wth making do with them for a decade while they get their act together is short sighted in the extreme.

To fail to address the age-old AF issue - regardless of how possible it is with skill, patience and luck to work around it - is just technical laziness. Something that is also borne out in other areas, such as their inability or unwillingness to develop working companion apps for things like the GR. Stuff that, given a few hundred developer hours could quicky and easily put them in the same ballpark as other manufacturers, even if being ahead is too much to ask. Instead it seems acceptable to them that your shiny new £500 camera comes with an app that won't even load images without crashing, let alone perform basic remote control.
Well, I can name a few names on the forum who might deny your initial point

Yeah, it's just like "How is this not fixed yet?" And skill and technique help no matter what, but the point is that sometimes, easier is better. I'm not great with motion focusing because I don't do it often. Sure, if I practice a ton I could master it, but I don't and instead, the one or two times per year I use that, I just want to be able to get something good enough without jumping through hoops. It's sad to not be able to get something that the parents with their iPhones next to me can get!

QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
The OP doesn't seem to mind 3rd party lenses, citing Tamron as a future option. So my question is why the Sigma 35mm Art isn't an option for that focal range.

And I wish the OP all the best in his photography journey!
I've owned four Sigma lenses: the 17-70 contemporary, the 18-35 Art, the 70-200 HSM II, and the 150-500. Every one of them has had something wrong or strange with them. The 17-70 had some strange focal length misreporting that made it not work right with shake reduction and led to blurred images (until this was fixed with firmware). The 18-35 focused like it was using a dartboard. The 70-200 was fine on my K-5 but wouldn't focus AT ALL on the K-1. And the 150-500....well, I'm not sure about it, but it seems miscalibrated or misfocusing at certain focal lengths but is completely fine at others. I'm just done with Sigma after all this. I don't trust their products anymore. I won't buy one for Nikon either.

And thanks for the well wishes.

QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
I my opinion, this the make or break year for Pentax. If all they do is come out with rehashed models with 100th Anniversary stamps on them it shows what Ricoh is thinking of the brand and of us. I am still hopeful, but the "years down the road approach" that Pentax has taken has been extremely frustrating. It is like they simply do not want to continue to move the brand forward or even continue it. I often wonder if they are trying to sell it on the side. That seems to be how they are acting.
That's a rather dire stance, to say the least, but yes, I agree that "eventually" stops being an answer people will accept after a while. If I were a camera article writer, it would be really hard for me to recommend Pentax because there's more promises than products.

QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
You write:

"... I love my 77--it's my favorite lens--but it doesn't have the resolving power of the lenses my peers are using and in a semi-competitive environment, falling behind is not terribly fun."

I'm wondering what photographic application would expose the resolution difference between, say, a Nikon 85mm 1.4 (or whatever lens you were referring to) and the Pentax 77ltd?

In my experience, the 77ltd it exceptionally sharp. Copy variation?
Oh, it's quite a sharp lens! I think it's very good. But it's even outclassed, although slightly, in fine detail and resolution by the DA*55. When I was looking at some of my buddy's Fuji images at full, I couldn't believe how much detail they had. Just zoom to 100% and the finest details are stunning. The 77 is nice, but it can't quite match these modern computer-aided designs and high precision optics. It's utterly amazing what new stuff can do.

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I don't understand all these issues with focus. Were you using paper-thin DOF? My style depends on providing context, so I typically use F/4 or narrower, and virtually none of my human subjects are out-of-focus ......
I'm usually at f/2.8. It's quite thin with a 77mm focal length. I define my own style but some potential models actually pass on me because I don't have enough "super bokeh" in my work. I think it's overblown and a bit cliche (and people are obsessed with it rather sillily), but people do actually think I don't know how to do those kinds of shots because I don't do them. I'd actually like to try f/2.2 or f/2.5 even from time to time. The biggest reason I don't? I don't trust the AF system to nail the focus below f/2.8.
01-17-2019, 05:14 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
All I can say is your shooting isn't like mine, so neither are your conclusions.
This opening part of your post is quite important, I think, because it quite rightly demonstrates that we're all different.

For some, Pentax is an on-going and (if rather slowly) developing part of their photography. I consider myself in that group, not because I'm a fan-boy (I'm definitely not ), but because the equipment has met my needs extremely well for a number of years, and continues to do so. I have no need to switch to a different brand.

Others - like Justin - see valid (to them, at least, if not to all of us) reasons why Pentax is no longer the best choice. And that's absolutely fine... those folks should switch to what works best for them. There's no sense in remaining longer term with a brand that doesn't offer what you want, so I respect their choices. I'd switch too if I felt the same. Of course, some leavers take a dive-bombing approach of trying to widely discredit Pentax in favour of their newly chosen brand by posting emotionally about their departure - usually, I suspect, to reassure themselves by garnering support and solidarity from disgruntled users. But I genuinely don't believe that's Justin's motivation here.

And then, we have folks joining the brand, either from other brands (and for a wide variety of reasons) or for their first foray into serious digital photography. We see quite a number of new members of this type, so we know it's happening. This is often forgotten in threads like these, so I believe it's worth mentioning for the sake of balance.

Really, the situation hasn't changed all that much in the 8 - 9 years I've been active on these forums. Of course, I'm always a little sad to see folks switch away, but always happy to see others join too. It's casually interesting to me why people switch away from, or to, the brand... but only casually. It doesn't affect my own views, and it shouldn't affect others. All that matters is that we each go with the brand that gives us what we need for enjoyment or professional reasons

Still, like most of us (i'd guess), I do hope to see more product development from Ricoh and at a somewhat faster pace. But folks switching in and out of the brand shouldn't be a surprise or concern for any of us. It's nothing new...

Last edited by BigMackCam; 01-17-2019 at 05:44 PM.
01-17-2019, 05:54 PM - 1 Like   #43
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Pentax offers a value that other camera manufacturers don't. I think expectations should be tempered by the fact that in many cases the k-1 is what, half the price of a newer Canon or Nikon offering? I like to create photos within the confines of the Pentax system and have been successful doing so (and have made a bunch of money in the process). What satisfies me, is producing results that meet or exceed other cameras manufacturers. I guess it's what you make of it, and I for one thing work to maximize what the Pentax system has to offer. And with that, I plan on staying with Pentax and have zero plans to go elsewhere. BTW, I do use the new DFA 50 much more than I thought I would (along with the DFA70-200) and have been very pleased with the performance (from both lenses) the past few months doing senior photo sessions.

Last edited by dcpropilot; 01-17-2019 at 06:00 PM.
01-17-2019, 06:07 PM - 1 Like   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
This, unfortunately, is causing many others to jump ship as well. It's an area that seems to be more challenging for Ricoh than it should be, and it's slowly undermining the whole point of shooting with full frame to begin with (at least for pros).

Shameless plug, but I do have a very nice 35mm and 85mm F1.4 G listed on the Marketplace at the moment, if you decide to finalize the transition
Are you kidding me? I once mentioned I had an item for sale and the moderators were quick to issue me a "citation" for violation of terms. (PM: "A rule reminder from the moderators: Mention of an available camera technically constitutes a sales solicitation, so I've deleted your message.") And here we have an Administrator apparently doing the same thing? Double standard?

BTW, I spent most of today photographing my Pentax gear so I can post it for sale (not on this site). I will keep my Pentax film cameras (2 MX bodies and 5 lenses), but I am switching to Fuji for digital because their APS-C cameras have replaced Pentax as the go-to supplier for smaller, lightweight cameras that punch above their weight. Carrying my K-3, I felt like I was geared up for a National Geographic assignment which was overkill for hiking the trails, city streets, vacation shooting, or just taking a few snaps on walkabout.
01-17-2019, 06:22 PM - 3 Likes   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by runswithsizzers Quote
Are you kidding me? I once mentioned I had an item for sale and the moderators were quick to issue me a "citation" for violation of terms. (PM: "A rule reminder from the moderators: Mention of an available camera technically constitutes a sales solicitation, so I've deleted your message.") And here we have an Administrator apparently doing the same thing? Double standard?
You didn't have an active listing in the Marketplace, so that would have been selling outside the Marketplace. That's the difference
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