Colour and tone rendering - CCD Samsung GX-10 (Pentax K10D) vs CMOS Pentax K-3

dbs · 02-10-2019, 03:56 PM - **1 Like**

Hi Mike

Thanks for the discussion.
I'm only a jpeg shooter and I still prefer 100D pegs to K5 pegs overall ,It is not what you are discussing but it still seems relevent with to ccd vs cmos

Dave

Mobusaki · 02-11-2019, 09:23 AM - **2 Likes**

This thread is very interesting to me being a K10D user who just got a K-3 a few days ago. I noticed the difference immediately. However, I had seen this thread and others and so I was looking for that difference. Thanks to BigMackCam, though, I was prepared, with that custom Lightroom "CCD look" profile. It makes quite an improvement especially (to my eye) when there are blue hues involved, followed by red hues. Perhaps I should post this in that profile's thread, but I really appreciate your efforts putting that together, BigMackCam. I don't find myself wishing for more than the K-3 is giving me. I do, however, definitely see what people mean when they talk about the K10D providing such nice colors "naturally," with the CMOS sensors requiring a little massaging to get there.

I plan to do some comparison shots myself between the K10D and the K-3 soon for fun and to form a subjective feel for when I'll benefit from grabbing the K10D or not, and also to see which lens I might prefer on each camera for when I feel the urge to bring along both. Should be fun!

BigMackCam · 02-11-2019, 02:44 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Mobusaki

This thread is very interesting to me being a K10D user who just got a K-3 a few days ago. I noticed the difference immediately. However, I had seen this thread and others and so I was looking for that difference. Thanks to BigMackCam, though, I was prepared, with that custom Lightroom "CCD look" profile. It makes quite an improvement especially (to my eye) when there are blue hues involved, followed by red hues. Perhaps I should post this in that profile's thread, but I really appreciate your efforts putting that together, BigMackCam. I don't find myself wishing for more than the K-3 is giving me. I do, however, definitely see what people mean when they talk about the K10D providing such nice colors "naturally," with the CMOS sensors requiring a little massaging to get there.

I plan to do some comparison shots myself between the K10D and the K-3 soon for fun and to form a subjective feel for when I'll benefit from grabbing the K10D or not, and also to see which lens I might prefer on each camera for when I feel the urge to bring along both. Should be fun!

Thank you for the kind words... they're much appreciated, and I'm glad you found some value from that "CCD look" article I wrote

Much as I love my GX-10 / K10D, I'd be the first to say the K-3 is a superb, modern DSLR with far greater capabilities and functionality. I shoot one, and I'm a huge fan. Amongst the many improved specifications, it boasts considerably better resolution, dynamic range, and high ISO performance. Those can be crucial in certain use cases. And it's important to remember that the K-3's raw files offer amazing flexibility and opportunity for optimisation in post-processing. Given that, it's quite possible to achieve colour and tone similar to the K10D from K-3 files... as you've found from the "CCD look" article I posted. Similar... yet not identical.

I like my GX-10 and K-3 for different reasons, and I'd prefer not to be without either. I like the GX-10 because, whether it's due to the sensor, embedded profile, raw conversion software or a combination of any of those, I find the raw files very appealing, requiring only minor tweaking in many cases to achieve images I'm completely happy with (my own composition flaws aside

). I like the K-3 because, unlike the GX-10, it's capable of virtually anything I might want to do with it. But the raw files - again, whether it's due to the sensor, profile and / or raw conversion software - need more adjustments. Those adjustments can be stored as presets and applied with little effort. But the results are, as you'd expect, never quite the same between the two cameras...

ZombieArmy · 02-12-2019, 03:58 PM - **1 Like**

I'd have liked to see a comparison to the K-5. I've never liked what I've seen SOOC from the K-3 but I think the K-5 sensor has amazing colors out of the gate with better DR to boot.

That might be my own bias though because I've shot for so long with the K-01.

biz-engineer · 06-29-2019, 04:23 AM

Originally posted by ZombieArmy

I'd have liked to see a comparison to the K-5.

The K5 default look is close to the K3. I remember well my first image taken with the K5, coming from the K200D. When I looked at the K5 image, it looked metallic / cooler compared to what I was used to see from the K200D. I think the big change was between CCD and CMOS.

saladin · 02-13-2021, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

The K5 default look is close to the K3. I remember well my first image taken with the K5, coming from the K200D. When I looked at the K5 image, it looked metallic / cooler compared to what I was used to see from the K200D. I think the big change was between CCD and CMOS.

Likewise. I had a k10 and a K5 and felt that the k5 looked cooler and smoother than the somewhat warmer and (for want of a better word) "textured/organic" K10 look. The dynamic range and clarity of the K5 was astounding though. I do recall looking at k3 images on here after its release and thinking that it had shifted back a little towards the K10 in terms of colours and rendering, but I never got around to buying one. My K10D was stolen from my car many years ago, but I'm tempted to pick one up. At low ISO's, it would produce the odd image that i simply loved.

mikesbike · 02-13-2021, 10:49 PM

I shot with a K200D for a number of years, and liked the results. As to color, I found its bigger brother, the K20D, which I owned simultaneously, produced even richer colors. Both cameras tended to underexpose more than the K-5 series, which was next for me.

saladin · 02-13-2021, 11:05 PM - **1 Like**

That's interesting, Mike. My Dad bought a K20D (the K10 had been superceded) and neither of us liked the K20 output as much (unless we needed the increased megapixel count for cropping). These things are so subjective though.

G&R · 02-25-2021, 05:03 PM - **2 Likes**

It may be subjective, but standing back from technical details and just looking at the forum suggests the most enthusiastic Pentaxians have had a GX10/K10D - is this the model that actually hooked most of us? Are Pentax owners who never used that model more likely to drift away?

As it happens I have a GX10, K10D and K-3ii. The K3 has many extra features yet I have not put the GX10 away - more testing required, but if it were not for the video options I probably would have sold the K3 already.

In this decades-long debate it seems widely assumed is that Pentax was the leader of Samsung, but perhaps it was not as simple as that. We overlook what Samsung may have brought to the table, and what Samsung perhaps took off the table when the two companies parted. Clearly the companies diverged either during or immediately after the GX20/K20D. There is a widespread bias against Samsung throughout that time with reviews falsely claiming the GX10/GX20 had lower ISO range or other weaknesses, when in reality we know they shared the same components with the same capabilities.

Here we are admiring the unique qualities of the GX10/K10D, and perhaps we need to set aside the bias and consider the possibility that we are pining the loss of Samsung's unique technical contributions? Perhaps the vivid and smooth CCD optimisations observed in the K10D are a Samsung intellectual property, and maybe some clever software hacking can copy it back from a K10D to a K-7?

Samsung-Pentax co-developments:

GL1 / DL2 has a pentamirror, which is rare for Pentax, and in my case is clearer than other pentamirrors/pentaprisms.
GX10 / K10D products diverged with each having their own ergonomics and Samsung dropping Pentax PEF.
GX20 / K20D ... no experience on my side.
K-7 ... is the last Pentax to feature a Samsung sensor, and perhaps by this time Samsung was only a supplier?

02-25-2021, 05:03 PM - 2 Likes	#39
G&R Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 37	It may be subjective, but standing back from technical details and just looking at the forum suggests the most enthusiastic Pentaxians have had a GX10/K10D - is this the model that actually hooked most of us? Are Pentax owners who never used that model more likely to drift away? As it happens I have a GX10, K10D and K-3ii. The K3 has many extra features yet I have not put the GX10 away - more testing required, but if it were not for the video options I probably would have sold the K3 already. In this decades-long debate it seems widely assumed is that Pentax was the leader of Samsung, but perhaps it was not as simple as that. We overlook what Samsung may have brought to the table, and what Samsung perhaps took off the table when the two companies parted. Clearly the companies diverged either during or immediately after the GX20/K20D. There is a widespread bias against Samsung throughout that time with reviews falsely claiming the GX10/GX20 had lower ISO range or other weaknesses, when in reality we know they shared the same components with the same capabilities. Here we are admiring the unique qualities of the GX10/K10D, and perhaps we need to set aside the bias and consider the possibility that we are pining the loss of Samsung's unique technical contributions? Perhaps the vivid and smooth CCD optimisations observed in the K10D are a Samsung intellectual property, and maybe some clever software hacking can copy it back from a K10D to a K-7? Samsung-Pentax co-developments: GL1 / DL2 has a pentamirror, which is rare for Pentax, and in my case is clearer than other pentamirrors/pentaprisms. GX10 / K10D products diverged with each having their own ergonomics and Samsung dropping Pentax PEF. GX20 / K20D ... no experience on my side. K-7 ... is the last Pentax to feature a Samsung sensor, and perhaps by this time Samsung was only a supplier? Last edited by G&R; 02-26-2021 at 02:32 AM.

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02-10-2019, 03:56 PM - 1 Like	#31
dbs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Clare Valley S A Photos: Albums Posts: 7,106	Hi Mike Thanks for the discussion. I'm only a jpeg shooter and I still prefer 100D pegs to K5 pegs overall ,It is not what you are discussing but it still seems relevent with to ccd vs cmos Dave

02-11-2019, 09:23 AM - 2 Likes	#32
Mobusaki Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 76	This thread is very interesting to me being a K10D user who just got a K-3 a few days ago. I noticed the difference immediately. However, I had seen this thread and others and so I was looking for that difference. Thanks to BigMackCam, though, I was prepared, with that custom Lightroom "CCD look" profile. It makes quite an improvement especially (to my eye) when there are blue hues involved, followed by red hues. Perhaps I should post this in that profile's thread, but I really appreciate your efforts putting that together, BigMackCam. I don't find myself wishing for more than the K-3 is giving me. I do, however, definitely see what people mean when they talk about the K10D providing such nice colors "naturally," with the CMOS sensors requiring a little massaging to get there. I plan to do some comparison shots myself between the K10D and the K-3 soon for fun and to form a subjective feel for when I'll benefit from grabbing the K10D or not, and also to see which lens I might prefer on each camera for when I feel the urge to bring along both. Should be fun!

02-11-2019, 02:44 PM - 2 Likes	#33
BigMackCam - Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 18,745 Original Poster	Originally posted by Mobusaki This thread is very interesting to me being a K10D user who just got a K-3 a few days ago. I noticed the difference immediately. However, I had seen this thread and others and so I was looking for that difference. Thanks to BigMackCam, though, I was prepared, with that custom Lightroom "CCD look" profile. It makes quite an improvement especially (to my eye) when there are blue hues involved, followed by red hues. Perhaps I should post this in that profile's thread, but I really appreciate your efforts putting that together, BigMackCam. I don't find myself wishing for more than the K-3 is giving me. I do, however, definitely see what people mean when they talk about the K10D providing such nice colors "naturally," with the CMOS sensors requiring a little massaging to get there. I plan to do some comparison shots myself between the K10D and the K-3 soon for fun and to form a subjective feel for when I'll benefit from grabbing the K10D or not, and also to see which lens I might prefer on each camera for when I feel the urge to bring along both. Should be fun! Thank you for the kind words... they're much appreciated, and I'm glad you found some value from that "CCD look" article I wrote Much as I love my GX-10 / K10D, I'd be the first to say the K-3 is a superb, modern DSLR with far greater capabilities and functionality. I shoot one, and I'm a huge fan. Amongst the many improved specifications, it boasts considerably better resolution, dynamic range, and high ISO performance. Those can be crucial in certain use cases. And it's important to remember that the K-3's raw files offer amazing flexibility and opportunity for optimisation in post-processing. Given that, it's quite possible to achieve colour and tone similar to the K10D from K-3 files... as you've found from the "CCD look" article I posted. Similar... yet not identical. I like my GX-10 and K-3 for different reasons, and I'd prefer not to be without either. I like the GX-10 because, whether it's due to the sensor, embedded profile, raw conversion software or a combination of any of those, I find the raw files very appealing, requiring only minor tweaking in many cases to achieve images I'm completely happy with (my own composition flaws aside ). I like the K-3 because, unlike the GX-10, it's capable of virtually anything I might want to do with it. But the raw files - again, whether it's due to the sensor, profile and / or raw conversion software - need more adjustments. Those adjustments can be stored as presets and applied with little effort. But the results are, as you'd expect, never quite the same between the two cameras...

02-12-2019, 03:58 PM - 1 Like	#34
ZombieArmy Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 3,084	I'd have liked to see a comparison to the K-5. I've never liked what I've seen SOOC from the K-3 but I think the K-5 sensor has amazing colors out of the gate with better DR to boot. That might be my own bias though because I've shot for so long with the K-01.

06-29-2019, 04:23 AM	#35
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,135	Originally posted by ZombieArmy I'd have liked to see a comparison to the K-5. The K5 default look is close to the K3. I remember well my first image taken with the K5, coming from the K200D. When I looked at the K5 image, it looked metallic / cooler compared to what I was used to see from the K200D. I think the big change was between CCD and CMOS.

02-13-2021, 10:00 PM	#36
saladin Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: outer eastern melbourne, australia Posts: 408	Originally posted by biz-engineer The K5 default look is close to the K3. I remember well my first image taken with the K5, coming from the K200D. When I looked at the K5 image, it looked metallic / cooler compared to what I was used to see from the K200D. I think the big change was between CCD and CMOS. Likewise. I had a k10 and a K5 and felt that the k5 looked cooler and smoother than the somewhat warmer and (for want of a better word) "textured/organic" K10 look. The dynamic range and clarity of the K5 was astounding though. I do recall looking at k3 images on here after its release and thinking that it had shifted back a little towards the K10 in terms of colours and rendering, but I never got around to buying one. My K10D was stolen from my car many years ago, but I'm tempted to pick one up. At low ISO's, it would produce the odd image that i simply loved.

02-13-2021, 10:49 PM	#37
mikesbike Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 4,333	I shot with a K200D for a number of years, and liked the results. As to color, I found its bigger brother, the K20D, which I owned simultaneously, produced even richer colors. Both cameras tended to underexpose more than the K-5 series, which was next for me.

02-13-2021, 11:05 PM - 1 Like	#38
saladin Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: outer eastern melbourne, australia Posts: 408	That's interesting, Mike. My Dad bought a K20D (the K10 had been superceded) and neither of us liked the K20 output as much (unless we needed the increased megapixel count for cropping). These things are so subjective though.

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