Time to upgrade the K10D

Lambic · 02-06-2019, 05:07 PM

It feels like it's time to upgrade my K10D.

In my area, Pentax gear is almost non-existent. None of the brick and mortar shops (those that have survived) stock Pentax products. However, last night, with some luck, I happened upon a K-70 that appears to have been a return (or ordered, but not purchased). I jumped on the opportunity to give it a try and compare it against the K10D. For those contemplating a change from the K10D, here are a few thoughts:

Disclaimer: I visited at night and as such could only take test shots inside the shop. This leveled the playing field in terms of subject matter, but strongly favoured the K-70 with its improved low-light capability.

Relative to the K10D, the K-70

- is noticeably smaller and lighter, but
- feels solid and well-built, despite it's plastic on metal-frame construction
- controls are very similar to the K10D to the point that I could pick it up and use it right away without much searching or any manual readings
- LCD screen is comparitively amazing! Super sharp and bright
- screen 'fold-in' (facing inwards) offers great protection while not in use
- shutter is quieter
- image clarity exceeds the K10D significantly (but sometimes doesn't show unless you zoom in to full image size)
- back display shows all the information for which I used to use the top LCD, so I didn't find I missed the top one
- higher ISO settings (albeit no higher than a modest 16200) worked beautifully to allow for a faster shutter speed... unlike the K10D where I prefer not to go above 400

I had been leaning towards the KP on the basis of build-quality and possibly the AF improvements, but having seen the K-70 and being very pleased with it including build, fit and finish, I am now leaning back to the K-70 as in Canada the KP is a minimum of $300 more than the K-70.

**clackers** · 02-06-2019, 05:14 PM

If you haven't read the Forum review of the K-70, Lambic, here it is:

Pentax K-70 Review - Introduction | PentaxForums.com Reviews

KP review here, along with brief comparison to the K-70, is here:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/reviews/pentax-kp-review/introduction.html

**ramseybuckeye** · 02-06-2019, 09:21 PM

You won't go wrong with either, light years advancement over the K10D.

virusn3t · 02-06-2019, 10:00 PM

If possibly i would say go for the KP, it will have better noise control at high ISO and the AF chip will be a lot better, when i change the K30 (older Safox than the K70) to the K3 (same AF chip from the KP) it was a huge improvement in low light scenarios... and while you are in the KP ballpark, a used K1 can be close to the price... i mean, you took the time to upgrade the K10D, why not spoil yourself with a camera?, you deserve that

Lambic · 02-06-2019, 11:53 PM

I had a look through the K-70 review and they really slam it's AF performance, particularly for sports. I happen to have a couple of athlete kids that take part in a number of fast sports like skiing, biking, competitive swimming and ice hockey. Is the K-70 really that poor at AF for sports subjects?

**Des** · 02-07-2019, 12:39 AM

Originally posted by Lambic

I had a look through the K-70 review and they really slam it's AF performance, particularly for sports. I happen to have a couple of athlete kids that take part in a number of fast sports like skiing, biking, competitive swimming and ice hockey. Is the K-70 really that poor at AF for sports subjects?

Well, I've got the K-S2 which has the same AF as the K-70. It's well behind the AF of the K-3 or the KP in speed (especially with screw-driven lenses) and accuracy. But if you use the DA 55-300 PLM the gap is narrowed. To put this in perspective, either will be streets ahead of the K10D.

The other thing for sports is that the K-70 has a slightly faster frame rate than the KP. (Both are well behind the K-3 in this regard, because it has a faster frame rate and a bigger buffer.)

Another big difference between the K-S2 and KP is in exposure metering, especially in matrix mode. The KP also has better SR. And a host of other features not found on the K-70.

The ergonomics of the KP are polarizing. Personally I don't find it as comfortable in the hand as the K-S2, let alone the K-3. And while it has a host of dials and buttons, it's a bit cluttered IMO. I also prefer the flippy screen of the K-S2 (and K-70) to the tilt screen of the KP.

Overall the KP is a more advanced camera, but the K-70 is a whole lot of camera for the money.

Nunavut · 02-07-2019, 04:57 AM

Lambic, you can easily find used K3s that are cheaper than a new K70, with fairly low mileage too. The k3 is an outstanding camera.

Mobusaki · 02-07-2019, 09:24 AM

I decided it was time to upgrade from the K10D myself last week. I ordered a used K-3 with (supposedly) 6,000 shutter count for $425. Considering that's ~half the cost of the KP, the other DSLR I was considering, it was an easy choice for me. I feel like the KP is better at the things that made me want to upgrade (low light, possibly better AF than the K-3 but I'm not sure on that one). However it isn't 2x better, so it's not worth 2x the cost. That was my calculus anyway.

But I feel like you can't go wrong. The K10D was and still is a wonderful camera. That said, you can't go wrong with any of the newer models, they have all improved so much!

normhead · 02-07-2019, 09:29 AM

Here's a thread for you....
Any advantage of CCD over CMOS? - PentaxForums.com
Some people are still liking their K10Ds.

So, I'd say an upgrade is in order, but I'm not everyone.

Mobusaki · 02-07-2019, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by normhead

Here's a thread for you....
Any advantage of CCD over CMOS? - PentaxForums.com
Some people are still liking their K10Ds.

So, I'd say an upgrade is in order, but I'm not everyone.

That's an interesting thread. A more modern DSLR is much appreciated for action shots and low light situations, which is why I have the K-3 on the way. But that doesn't mean I don't still really enjoy my K10D, and it would be really cool if I always did. Someday I imagine it will truly be obsolete, but who knows. I'd prefer to keep using the old gem than see it collect dust.

Lambic · 02-07-2019, 02:36 PM

Thanks everyone for your help. These decisions are never easy.

The K-3 looks like a great option, but I do like the pixel-shift feature of the K-70.
I suppose it comes down to superior AF versus new/warranty & pixel-shift.

One more thing... I'm going to be travelling with this camera; can the K-70 wi-fi conveniently allow back-up to the cloud through an ipad mini? By conveniently, I mean without taking so much effort I feel compelled to jump out the hotel window.

rickc118 · 02-07-2019, 02:44 PM

I have a K-70 (having upgraded from the K-x), and also looked hard at the K-P. Besides all the differences between the two cameras that the detailed review comparisons will highlight, I would strongly suggest you consider the ergonomic differences between the two. I have medium-large hands (at least measured by golf glove sizing), and found the K-P uncomfortable to hold, even with the largest of the three optional grips. As much as I prefer some of the strong selling points of the K-P, I ended up sticking with the K-70, which I enjoy tremendously. My two cents...

I'm sure you will enjoy the K-70 or K-P, so you're good either way. Best of luck with your decision!

normhead · 02-07-2019, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by Mobusaki

That's an interesting thread. A more modern DSLR is much appreciated for action shots and low light situations, which is why I have the K-3 on the way. But that doesn't mean I don't still really enjoy my K10D, and it would be really cool if I always did. Someday I imagine it will truly be obsolete, but who knows. I'd prefer to keep using the old gem than see it collect dust.

I've been spending my days compiling images for display on my HD TV. The K10D still has a bit more resolution than needed. 3840 compared to 3872 wide.... until 8k TV comes out and succeeds, which is not a given, a K10D would be still relevant around my house.

Nunavut · 02-07-2019, 03:23 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Lambic

The K-3 looks like a great option, but I do like the pixel-shift feature of the K-70.
I suppose it comes down to superior AF versus new/warranty & pixel-shift.

One more thing... I'm going to be travelling with this camera; can the K-70 wi-fi conveniently allow back-up to the cloud through an ipad mini? By conveniently, I mean without taking so much effort I feel compelled to jump out the hotel window.

The K-3 ii has pixel shift too. Might be a different generation though?
RE: wifi. For downloading many jpegs, it works fine, for RAW, prepare your hotel window.

Mobusaki · 02-11-2019, 07:24 AM - **1 Like**

I've had my used K-3 for a few days now. I even took a few shots in the neighborhood at night which came out amazing. Ask me any questions if you are considering that route. Coming from the K10D it is a huge, huge, huge step up (as are all of the cameras you are considering, of course). Some of the improvements I expected, like the superior autofocus (finally I have a camera that is sure of itself), the high ISO performance (which I seriously underestimated the usefulness of - it is often overcast and poor light even a high noon here in PA). Other things I was not expecting to be so pleased with, like the focus peaking which is wonderful for manual lenses, the LCD is just spectacular, and the menu system is quick and easy to navigate. Making changes to the camera settings is so much easier and faster as well, and there are just a ton of little things that make that easier, like the option to remember your place in the menu system.

Other things I knew about but didn't expect to like, but do, like the dual SD card slots. I find it very reassuring to have it copy the images to each card. Another is the frame rate of continuous shooting mode. I've always taken my time and taken one shot at a time, but I find with the improved autofocus that the continuous shooting is very handy. I was surprised to find that when I have the shutter speed a bit low, it's helpful to shoot a burst of shots and one is bound to be free of motion blur (I always considered continuous shooting mode to be an action photography thing only).

Anyway, I'll stop rambling. Much of what I said applies to all the cameras you are looking at. The last thing I will say is that I feel like at $400-500 a used K-3 feels like stealing. It feels like a million bucks.

02-06-2019, 05:07 PM	#1
Lambic Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 95	Time to upgrade the K10D It feels like it's time to upgrade my K10D. In my area, Pentax gear is almost non-existent. None of the brick and mortar shops (those that have survived) stock Pentax products. However, last night, with some luck, I happened upon a K-70 that appears to have been a return (or ordered, but not purchased). I jumped on the opportunity to give it a try and compare it against the K10D. For those contemplating a change from the K10D, here are a few thoughts: Disclaimer: I visited at night and as such could only take test shots inside the shop. This leveled the playing field in terms of subject matter, but strongly favoured the K-70 with its improved low-light capability. Relative to the K10D, the K-70 - is noticeably smaller and lighter, but - feels solid and well-built, despite it's plastic on metal-frame construction - controls are very similar to the K10D to the point that I could pick it up and use it right away without much searching or any manual readings - LCD screen is comparitively amazing! Super sharp and bright - screen 'fold-in' (facing inwards) offers great protection while not in use - shutter is quieter - image clarity exceeds the K10D significantly (but sometimes doesn't show unless you zoom in to full image size) - back display shows all the information for which I used to use the top LCD, so I didn't find I missed the top one - higher ISO settings (albeit no higher than a modest 16200) worked beautifully to allow for a faster shutter speed... unlike the K10D where I prefer not to go above 400 I had been leaning towards the KP on the basis of build-quality and possibly the AF improvements, but having seen the K-70 and being very pleased with it including build, fit and finish, I am now leaning back to the K-70 as in Canada the KP is a minimum of $300 more than the K-70.

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02-06-2019, 05:14 PM	#2
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	If you haven't read the Forum review of the K-70, Lambic, here it is: Pentax K-70 Review - Introduction \| PentaxForums.com Reviews KP review here, along with brief comparison to the K-70, is here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/reviews/pentax-kp-review/introduction.html

02-06-2019, 09:21 PM	#3
ramseybuckeye Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hampstead, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 17,291	You won't go wrong with either, light years advancement over the K10D.

02-06-2019, 10:00 PM	#4
virusn3t Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 676	If possibly i would say go for the KP, it will have better noise control at high ISO and the AF chip will be a lot better, when i change the K30 (older Safox than the K70) to the K3 (same AF chip from the KP) it was a huge improvement in low light scenarios... and while you are in the KP ballpark, a used K1 can be close to the price... i mean, you took the time to upgrade the K10D, why not spoil yourself with a camera?, you deserve that

02-06-2019, 11:53 PM	#5
Lambic Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 95 Original Poster	I had a look through the K-70 review and they really slam it's AF performance, particularly for sports. I happen to have a couple of athlete kids that take part in a number of fast sports like skiing, biking, competitive swimming and ice hockey. Is the K-70 really that poor at AF for sports subjects?

02-07-2019, 12:39 AM	#6
Des Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Victoria Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 6,421	Originally posted by Lambic I had a look through the K-70 review and they really slam it's AF performance, particularly for sports. I happen to have a couple of athlete kids that take part in a number of fast sports like skiing, biking, competitive swimming and ice hockey. Is the K-70 really that poor at AF for sports subjects? Well, I've got the K-S2 which has the same AF as the K-70. It's well behind the AF of the K-3 or the KP in speed (especially with screw-driven lenses) and accuracy. But if you use the DA 55-300 PLM the gap is narrowed. To put this in perspective, either will be streets ahead of the K10D. The other thing for sports is that the K-70 has a slightly faster frame rate than the KP. (Both are well behind the K-3 in this regard, because it has a faster frame rate and a bigger buffer.) Another big difference between the K-S2 and KP is in exposure metering, especially in matrix mode. The KP also has better SR. And a host of other features not found on the K-70. The ergonomics of the KP are polarizing. Personally I don't find it as comfortable in the hand as the K-S2, let alone the K-3. And while it has a host of dials and buttons, it's a bit cluttered IMO. I also prefer the flippy screen of the K-S2 (and K-70) to the tilt screen of the KP. Overall the KP is a more advanced camera, but the K-70 is a whole lot of camera for the money.

02-07-2019, 04:57 AM	#7
Nunavut Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Vancouver Canada Posts: 37	Lambic, you can easily find used K3s that are cheaper than a new K70, with fairly low mileage too. The k3 is an outstanding camera.

02-07-2019, 09:24 AM	#8
Mobusaki Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 151	I decided it was time to upgrade from the K10D myself last week. I ordered a used K-3 with (supposedly) 6,000 shutter count for $425. Considering that's ~half the cost of the KP, the other DSLR I was considering, it was an easy choice for me. I feel like the KP is better at the things that made me want to upgrade (low light, possibly better AF than the K-3 but I'm not sure on that one). However it isn't 2x better, so it's not worth 2x the cost. That was my calculus anyway. But I feel like you can't go wrong. The K10D was and still is a wonderful camera. That said, you can't go wrong with any of the newer models, they have all improved so much!

02-07-2019, 09:29 AM	#9
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Here's a thread for you.... Any advantage of CCD over CMOS? - PentaxForums.com Some people are still liking their K10Ds. So, I'd say an upgrade is in order, but I'm not everyone.

02-07-2019, 01:06 PM	#10
Mobusaki Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 151	Originally posted by normhead Here's a thread for you.... Any advantage of CCD over CMOS? - PentaxForums.com Some people are still liking their K10Ds. So, I'd say an upgrade is in order, but I'm not everyone. That's an interesting thread. A more modern DSLR is much appreciated for action shots and low light situations, which is why I have the K-3 on the way. But that doesn't mean I don't still really enjoy my K10D, and it would be really cool if I always did. Someday I imagine it will truly be obsolete, but who knows. I'd prefer to keep using the old gem than see it collect dust.

02-07-2019, 02:36 PM	#11
Lambic Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 95 Original Poster	Thanks everyone for your help. These decisions are never easy. The K-3 looks like a great option, but I do like the pixel-shift feature of the K-70. I suppose it comes down to superior AF versus new/warranty & pixel-shift. One more thing... I'm going to be travelling with this camera; can the K-70 wi-fi conveniently allow back-up to the cloud through an ipad mini? By conveniently, I mean without taking so much effort I feel compelled to jump out the hotel window.

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02-07-2019, 02:44 PM	#12
rickc118 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 28	I have a K-70 (having upgraded from the K-x), and also looked hard at the K-P. Besides all the differences between the two cameras that the detailed review comparisons will highlight, I would strongly suggest you consider the ergonomic differences between the two. I have medium-large hands (at least measured by golf glove sizing), and found the K-P uncomfortable to hold, even with the largest of the three optional grips. As much as I prefer some of the strong selling points of the K-P, I ended up sticking with the K-70, which I enjoy tremendously. My two cents... I'm sure you will enjoy the K-70 or K-P, so you're good either way. Best of luck with your decision!

02-07-2019, 03:03 PM	#13
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Mobusaki That's an interesting thread. A more modern DSLR is much appreciated for action shots and low light situations, which is why I have the K-3 on the way. But that doesn't mean I don't still really enjoy my K10D, and it would be really cool if I always did. Someday I imagine it will truly be obsolete, but who knows. I'd prefer to keep using the old gem than see it collect dust. I've been spending my days compiling images for display on my HD TV. The K10D still has a bit more resolution than needed. 3840 compared to 3872 wide.... until 8k TV comes out and succeeds, which is not a given, a K10D would be still relevant around my house.

02-07-2019, 03:23 PM - 1 Like	#14
Nunavut Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Vancouver Canada Posts: 37	Originally posted by Lambic The K-3 looks like a great option, but I do like the pixel-shift feature of the K-70. I suppose it comes down to superior AF versus new/warranty & pixel-shift. One more thing... I'm going to be travelling with this camera; can the K-70 wi-fi conveniently allow back-up to the cloud through an ipad mini? By conveniently, I mean without taking so much effort I feel compelled to jump out the hotel window. The K-3 ii has pixel shift too. Might be a different generation though? RE: wifi. For downloading many jpegs, it works fine, for RAW, prepare your hotel window.

02-11-2019, 07:24 AM - 1 Like	#15
Mobusaki Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 151	I've had my used K-3 for a few days now. I even took a few shots in the neighborhood at night which came out amazing. Ask me any questions if you are considering that route. Coming from the K10D it is a huge, huge, huge step up (as are all of the cameras you are considering, of course). Some of the improvements I expected, like the superior autofocus (finally I have a camera that is sure of itself), the high ISO performance (which I seriously underestimated the usefulness of - it is often overcast and poor light even a high noon here in PA). Other things I was not expecting to be so pleased with, like the focus peaking which is wonderful for manual lenses, the LCD is just spectacular, and the menu system is quick and easy to navigate. Making changes to the camera settings is so much easier and faster as well, and there are just a ton of little things that make that easier, like the option to remember your place in the menu system. Other things I knew about but didn't expect to like, but do, like the dual SD card slots. I find it very reassuring to have it copy the images to each card. Another is the frame rate of continuous shooting mode. I've always taken my time and taken one shot at a time, but I find with the improved autofocus that the continuous shooting is very handy. I was surprised to find that when I have the shutter speed a bit low, it's helpful to shoot a burst of shots and one is bound to be free of motion blur (I always considered continuous shooting mode to be an action photography thing only). Anyway, I'll stop rambling. Much of what I said applies to all the cameras you are looking at. The last thing I will say is that I feel like at $400-500 a used K-3 feels like stealing. It feels like a million bucks.