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02-07-2019, 12:17 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
How to you adjust the photographic view point relative to 5:4 or 4:3 frame diagonal?
How do you crop the 3:2 frame to 4:3 when making composition hors-champs (or hors-cadre)?
Something to learn here?
I don,t think it matters what ratio your sensor is. You are almost always going to crop it to fit your final result. No sensor size will always give you a perfect ratio fo all shots. A camera with multiple viewfinder crops would be ideal, I don't know which ones have the best selection.

02-07-2019, 12:45 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
You mean you rotate the image prior to cropping?
I would if I had to. I shoot a square camera frequently and after shooting it for a while I find I either want it square or wide. A frame that is just off of square feels like what's point. Square has some unique compositions only common to that aspect ratio. Of course everyone's milage will vary.
02-07-2019, 12:45 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Maxman1947 Quote
I don,t think it matters what ratio your sensor is. You are almost always going to crop it to fit your final result. No sensor size will always give you a perfect ratio fo all shots.
How to align the composition to the diagonal of the 4:3 frame when you can only see the 3:2 frame in the viewfinder? Can you do it in post?
02-07-2019, 12:48 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Nope. I’ve learned to crop my images to fit the final purpose.
Also, you are wrong about a 4:3 or 5:4 sensor providing higher usable resolution.
That's the whole point of what I said. Anymore people posting things like "Just crop it" missed my point entirely. I do "Just crop it" almost all the time, and as such its a waste of sensor real-estate.


And no, you are wrong. A 4:3 sensor ratio is by definition taller, and thus has a higher linear resolution than a cropped 3:2. I don't know what you're thinking there.

If I recall one, of the reasons we even have the 645 ratio is because prolific shooters like Ansel Adams kept cropping their 6x6 negatives, so someone had the bright idea to just make a camera that stopped wasting that valuable film space.

---------- Post added 02-07-19 at 01:50 PM ----------

Also as the Full Frame market becomes more crowded, manufactures are going to have to differentiate themselves from the competition to survive. A 5:4 sensor would be appealing to many photographers.


Last edited by Leumas; 02-07-2019 at 12:54 PM.
02-07-2019, 12:54 PM - 1 Like   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
I would if I had to. I shoot a square camera frequently and after shooting it for a while I find I either want it square or wide. A frame that is just off of square feels like what's point. Square has some unique compositions only common to that aspect ratio. Of course everyone's milage will vary.
I was recommended the book from Freeman about graphical design and composition. I understood how to create tension and use the frame to strengthen message / viewpoint. Then I realized some of the framing I want to do according to what I understood in graphical design, I can't easily do it with the Pentax camera simply because there is nothing to help me move the camera in order to produce the desired perspective relative to the frame. I can't simply change the perspective by cropping in post, the perspective relative to the frame must be changed before taking the shot, and crop modes would help doing it.
02-07-2019, 01:00 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Leumas Quote
That's the whole point of what I said. Anymore people posting things like "Just crop it" missed my point entirely. I do "Just crop it" almost all the time, and as such its a waste of sensor real-estate.
Your point didn't escape me. I'm saying just crop it for reasons of making due with the gear you have. Get a camera that makes you happy.
02-07-2019, 01:22 PM - 1 Like   #37
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The 4:3 aspect ratio is what drew me to the 645z and micro 43rds, saying that it naturally came in the 4:3 aspect ratio. I know it is Fuji and pricey, but I wish more companies would do like what they programmed for the gfx models. You can shoot full sensor at 4:3 aspect ratio, but if you want to shoot 3:2 you can change it to 35mm mode which will produce a 3:2 aspect ratio in both jpeg and also raw. That essentially turns the camera from MF to FF... Best of both worlds.

02-07-2019, 01:48 PM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
How to you adjust the photographic view point relative to 5:4 or 4:3 frame diagonal?
How do you crop the 3:2 frame to 4:3 when making composition hors-champs (or hors-cadre)?
Something to learn here?
I've been doing the impossible for years and didn't realize it. Should I call Ripley's? Our crops end up square, 3:2, 4:3, 3:5, 16:9, 5:7, 8x 10.5 and many cropped using "Do not constrain." I always leave a bit of crop room outside the frame. You might shoot an image and later discover a complete different crop from what you had in mind works. Work with what you have, make it work.

02-07-2019, 01:50 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
You might shoot an image and later discover a complete different crop from what you had in mind works. Work with what you have, make it work.
Sure. I've done that too.
02-07-2019, 01:54 PM   #40
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I guess I don't understand. There is no one ratio that will work perfectly for everything. And I don't think that 4:3 works better for 16:9 than 2:3 does.
02-07-2019, 03:45 PM - 2 Likes   #41
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I think we are spoiled. Just make a small framing device you hold in your hands with the appropriate ratio if you have trouble framing from the viewfinder to a non-native ratio. Or as a friend did years ago - take the freaking focusing screen and mark it where you want. I even saw one guy mask off a portion of the focusing screen frame using a magic marker. Mind you this was on a film camera. I used to shoot an F2a with the "TV" focusing screen which had 4:3 marks on it to help when framing for TV purposes. I liked the screen for other reasons and ignored the marks.
02-07-2019, 04:01 PM - 1 Like   #42
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If DSLR sensors were made taller, mirrors would have to swing farther - so bodies would have to be deeper, and registration distances for lens mounts would have to change - at least if your reference is 36x24mm rather than APS-C. The 3:2 ratio is probably close to optimal for getting as much sensor into a DSLR as possible.

Square film formats could be used in the old Kodak box cameras, and the Yashica twin lens beast I had for a while, etc., but they didn't have to work around that pesky flappy mirror. It should also be possible to make a mirrorless camera that uses typical "full frame" lenses and incorporates a 30x30mm sensor (though not 36x36 without waste).
02-07-2019, 04:13 PM - 2 Likes   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul the Sunman Quote
As I've said before, lenses are round. Why not a round sensor and people can crop as they like.

It's never going to happen.
The first TV screens were round too, but they decided ultimately on a rectangular format, historically film, as a useable medium in strip format had to force a rectangular format for the frame, (square is a special case of rectangle)

It wasn't until the Kodak disk camera, that a format could be made in any shape, but it wound up using rectangular film, because that still represented the machines that processed the negative strips to begin with.

Today, we could have round sensors, but when all is said and done, it is much more efficient to process a large number of rectangles out of a big circular silicon chip, than a sequence of circles.
02-07-2019, 04:54 PM - 1 Like   #44
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Pictures these days are more likely to be viewed on a 16:9 or similar device than the old 4:3 style square computer monitors or TVs, that's the mainstream.

Individuals will want different ratios to suit their individual art, but let's be clear, that's not mainstream.
02-07-2019, 05:18 PM - 1 Like   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Leumas Quote
And no, you are wrong. A 4:3 sensor ratio is by definition taller, and thus has a higher linear resolution than a cropped 3:2. I don't know what you're thinking there.
In terms of aspect ratios consider the following: 3:4 = 6:8 and 2:3 = 6:9. And consider in medium format film there were 6x7, 6x8 and 6x9 cameras to name a few. Shooting 6x8 vs 6x9 camera/images is really no difference worth talking about.
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