New Pentax Cameras Make Us All Richer!

reh321 · 03-03-2019, 11:25 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Wasp

For me, the elephant in the corner of the room is the Canon EOS 200D. Here in South Africa I can get a dual lens EOS 200D kit for half the price of a new KP. I haven't crossed shopped them but the value proposition is on Canon's side. Just saying...

Apparently Canon uses the name "200D" for what they call the "SL2" in the US - I would say it is comparable to the K-70, but its low-light capabilities are much lower. At B&H it is $500 - $100 less than the K-70, which is roughly where is should be priced taking into account the actual value involved. The KP has much better construction and much better performance - you do get what you pay for.

**Merv-O** · 03-03-2019, 12:33 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Fenwoodian

I'm already listing much of my used gear at 50% of new price on Ebay, and it's listed with an invitation to make "offers". What I'm saying is that these days on Ebay, I can not even get offers (not even low ball offers) of much of my Pentax gear.

Then you're not pricing it right...Example: I sold my K-3 on eBay this summer for $420. Sold a 16-46mm lens for $125 and a K-50 for $240.00. Those were reasonable prices. I also recently bought a new in box K-5 ii with a 18-55mm kit lens for $420.00. Sold my K-1 ii with FA 18-105mm kit lens for $1,800 with 1484 exposures on eBay while it sat in the marketplace for 2 weeks with no offers. Bought a K-1 body only (missed FF-had nice FF glass) for $1,180.00 with 1700 exposures. I frankly prefer the K-1's renditioning for my purposes over the accelerator unit biased Mark ii. With the 1.51 firmware updates, the K-1 is fine, plus I made up the loss on the back end.

Look, the only used bodies that have appreciated are the K-3ii bodies. They are still selling new for over $800, with the 18-135mm DA kit lens, it's nearly $1,200.00. How do I know? I have 5 of the most recent Pentax bodies in my stable (see below) and I keep up on pricing. If you think Pentax depreciates fast, check Canon and Nikon gear goes right into the sink....Sony A7 ii bodies for $800? those were $2,000 new.

I agree with most members here: Investing in photographic equipment is not to be based on re-sale....It's based on personal or professional use. If I upgrade or want a particular feature set, I'll buy it. When I sell it if I usually break even at best or lose $$$, I check it off to using the equipment and having the legacy being the images I took.

Dericali · 03-03-2019, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by reh321

Over and over again I have complained about use of the word "invest" for the purchase of camera equipment. It is partially true, but it is also partially misleading.

True: the word "invest" implies long-term use - not a consumable which will be gone and need to replaced in a given period of time.

Misleading - the word "invest" implies a vehicle for making money as it appreciates in value; maybe that has been true at certain times, but it is a very risky vehicle.

"Invest" normally means that you will make money beyond what you spend up front. The ONLY way you will make money when you invest in a depreciating asset (i.e. something like a car or a camera that will be worth less in the future due to age, mileage, wear and tear) is by using it to perform a service, such as being a driver, selling your photographs etc.

Perhaps the other way some people mean it is in investing in quality, namely purchasing a higher quality item and assuming that over time the high up front cost will be less than the alternative of buying multiple lower quality goods of same utility (that break and have to be replaced) over a similar period.

SSGGeezer · 03-03-2019, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by limestonecowboy

I get the impression that some e-bay users don't understand the concept of "offers", they either don't make an offer or make a silly half price offer.

And I have made reasonable offers that split the difference between Chinese shipped versions of the same item and gotten back counters with 0.05 cents under their initial price. If you play that, don't accept offers. I have allowed the market to dictate what I do with prices on the forum as I had no luck with the same items on fleabay, and I didn't have to pay their obnoxious sellers percentage. Most of what I have sold ended up being discounted with an exception that started by PMs between me and the buyer. That is how a free market works.

With Canon discounting all their starter models to what may actually be below the cost of manufacturing and shipping is creating a glut of owners who will never upgrade or buy another lens. Nikon high end users are still the most arrogant. (IMHO only) even as Nikon flails financially.

**Rondec** · 03-03-2019, 02:39 PM - **2 Likes**

The issue has to do with the price of the gear posted and the actual gear itself. Expensive manual lenses are a tough sell in many situations. Yes, they may be Zeiss lenses and top of the line, but the number of folks who enjoy using them is somewhat limited and the number of people who have 600 to drop on a lens limits that even more. I don't know that new camera bodies will change that fact.

Photography is more about taking images and in that sense, the more images you take, the less you are paying per image. My experience is that if you buy gear used, you actually don't lose money on it when you resell, but you don't make money on it either. Still, I don't sell much because I actually use my lenses to take photos and it is hard to do that after they are sold...

tvdtvdtvd · 03-03-2019, 02:44 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by limestonecowboy

I get the impression that some e-bay users don't understand the concept of "offers", they either don't make an offer or make a silly half price offer.

True, but the same can be said for some sellers. Either sellers who list at 2x market but are willing to take an offer for 30% off,
or a seller who lists close to market then rejects an offer for 10% off.

Aaron28 · 03-03-2019, 03:03 PM

maybe no impact on lenses (yet) but the K-1000 is going crazy because of celebrity influence whether or not it will translate to those folks buying lenses different story as its a current trend to have the 'vintage' body they have

tokyoscape · 03-03-2019, 04:17 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Fenwoodian

.
...If you follow the marketplace here, I'm sure that you've noticed many ads that read "REDUCED" OR "REDUCED AGAIN"...
.

I am in Japan. during K5 to around early K1 years, Pentax used price in Japan was resonalbly cheap, brand-new stuffs are cheaper too. While anything Pentax outside Japan seem more expensive to even overprice to me.
Now it flip the other way around. Many secondhand gears in this forums is cheaper than in Japan. After add in international shipping, sometime it even (a bit) cheaper. Except those from Canada. Canadian shipping seems very expensive. New K1 body is also cheaper from online store in the US.

A lot of people out there are switching brand and sell all of their gear or down side it prepaing to jumpship?

I am talking about mostly old lenses and digital body. I am not sure about film body.

JHfwp · 03-03-2019, 04:28 PM - **1 Like**

On the bright side, there are some good deals to be had.

SSGGeezer · 03-03-2019, 04:34 PM

Those of us with severe LBA like the lower prices, even if we can't shoot with more than one lens at a time!

**AggieDad** · 03-03-2019, 05:04 PM

It's all a matter of perspective, isn't it?

For those of us who are buyers, lower prices are nice.

blind-bat · 03-03-2019, 05:19 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by SSGGeezer

Those of us with severe LBA like the lower prices, even if we can't shoot with more than one lens at a time!

Sure you can, you just have to buy another camera body

**arnold** · 03-03-2019, 06:50 PM - **2 Likes**

My feeling is that the image quality of phones has improved to such an extent, that phones have sucked a huge segment of the population out of the camera market. What remains are the professionals, the enthusiasts, the gear technical nerds, and a few nostalgic hangers on.

**Merv-O** · 03-03-2019, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by arnold

My feeling is that the image quality of phones has improved to such an extent, that phones have sucked a huge segment of the population out of the camera market. What remains are the professionals, the enthusiasts, the gear technical nerds, and a few nostalgic hangers on.

That's about right. Who do you think hangs out at this Forum? "....the professionals, the enthusiasts, the gear technical nerds, and a few nostalgic hangers on.' Outstanding.

biz-engineer · 03-03-2019, 11:28 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by arnold

My feeling is that the image quality of phones has improved to such an extent, that phones have sucked a huge segment of the population out of the camera market. What remains are the professionals, the enthusiasts, the gear technical nerds, and a few nostalgic hangers on.

How about the selling price of used smartphones?

(IMO, selling price of 3 years old phone model used is near $0..). Camera is one of the electronic good that retain its value the most, all for a lot of electronic devices the price is reduced in half the next day after you buy it. No body wants to buy old electronics simple because the appeal of electronic devices is based on novelty and not based on usefulness.

03-03-2019, 04:17 PM - 1 Like	#23
tokyoscape Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,256	Originally posted by Fenwoodian . ...If you follow the marketplace here, I'm sure that you've noticed many ads that read "REDUCED" OR "REDUCED AGAIN"... . I am in Japan. during K5 to around early K1 years, Pentax used price in Japan was resonalbly cheap, brand-new stuffs are cheaper too. While anything Pentax outside Japan seem more expensive to even overprice to me. Now it flip the other way around. Many secondhand gears in this forums is cheaper than in Japan. After add in international shipping, sometime it even (a bit) cheaper. Except those from Canada. Canadian shipping seems very expensive. New K1 body is also cheaper from online store in the US. A lot of people out there are switching brand and sell all of their gear or down side it prepaing to jumpship? I am talking about mostly old lenses and digital body. I am not sure about film body. Last edited by tokyoscape; 03-03-2019 at 04:38 PM.

03-03-2019, 05:19 PM - 1 Like	#27
blind-bat Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 256	Originally posted by SSGGeezer Those of us with severe LBA like the lower prices, even if we can't shoot with more than one lens at a time! Sure you can, you just have to buy another camera body Last edited by blind-bat; 03-03-2019 at 06:48 PM.

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03-03-2019, 11:25 AM - 2 Likes	#16
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,181	Originally posted by Wasp For me, the elephant in the corner of the room is the Canon EOS 200D. Here in South Africa I can get a dual lens EOS 200D kit for half the price of a new KP. I haven't crossed shopped them but the value proposition is on Canon's side. Just saying... Apparently Canon uses the name "200D" for what they call the "SL2" in the US - I would say it is comparable to the K-70, but its low-light capabilities are much lower. At B&H it is $500 - $100 less than the K-70, which is roughly where is should be priced taking into account the actual value involved. The KP has much better construction and much better performance - you do get what you pay for.

03-03-2019, 12:33 PM - 2 Likes	#17
Merv-O Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Philadelphia Photos: Albums Posts: 2,098	Originally posted by Fenwoodian I'm already listing much of my used gear at 50% of new price on Ebay, and it's listed with an invitation to make "offers". What I'm saying is that these days on Ebay, I can not even get offers (not even low ball offers) of much of my Pentax gear. Then you're not pricing it right...Example: I sold my K-3 on eBay this summer for $420. Sold a 16-46mm lens for $125 and a K-50 for $240.00. Those were reasonable prices. I also recently bought a new in box K-5 ii with a 18-55mm kit lens for $420.00. Sold my K-1 ii with FA 18-105mm kit lens for $1,800 with 1484 exposures on eBay while it sat in the marketplace for 2 weeks with no offers. Bought a K-1 body only (missed FF-had nice FF glass) for $1,180.00 with 1700 exposures. I frankly prefer the K-1's renditioning for my purposes over the accelerator unit biased Mark ii. With the 1.51 firmware updates, the K-1 is fine, plus I made up the loss on the back end. Look, the only used bodies that have appreciated are the K-3ii bodies. They are still selling new for over $800, with the 18-135mm DA kit lens, it's nearly $1,200.00. How do I know? I have 5 of the most recent Pentax bodies in my stable (see below) and I keep up on pricing. If you think Pentax depreciates fast, check Canon and Nikon gear goes right into the sink....Sony A7 ii bodies for $800? those were $2,000 new. I agree with most members here: Investing in photographic equipment is not to be based on re-sale....It's based on personal or professional use. If I upgrade or want a particular feature set, I'll buy it. When I sell it if I usually break even at best or lose $$$, I check it off to using the equipment and having the legacy being the images I took.

03-03-2019, 02:12 PM	#18
Dericali Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Berlin Posts: 298	Originally posted by reh321 Over and over again I have complained about use of the word "invest" for the purchase of camera equipment. It is partially true, but it is also partially misleading. True: the word "invest" implies long-term use - not a consumable which will be gone and need to replaced in a given period of time. Misleading - the word "invest" implies a vehicle for making money as it appreciates in value; maybe that has been true at certain times, but it is a very risky vehicle. "Invest" normally means that you will make money beyond what you spend up front. The ONLY way you will make money when you invest in a depreciating asset (i.e. something like a car or a camera that will be worth less in the future due to age, mileage, wear and tear) is by using it to perform a service, such as being a driver, selling your photographs etc. Perhaps the other way some people mean it is in investing in quality, namely purchasing a higher quality item and assuming that over time the high up front cost will be less than the alternative of buying multiple lower quality goods of same utility (that break and have to be replaced) over a similar period.

03-03-2019, 02:34 PM	#19
SSGGeezer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Indiana, U.S. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,845	Originally posted by limestonecowboy I get the impression that some e-bay users don't understand the concept of "offers", they either don't make an offer or make a silly half price offer. And I have made reasonable offers that split the difference between Chinese shipped versions of the same item and gotten back counters with 0.05 cents under their initial price. If you play that, don't accept offers. I have allowed the market to dictate what I do with prices on the forum as I had no luck with the same items on fleabay, and I didn't have to pay their obnoxious sellers percentage. Most of what I have sold ended up being discounted with an exception that started by PMs between me and the buyer. That is how a free market works. With Canon discounting all their starter models to what may actually be below the cost of manufacturing and shipping is creating a glut of owners who will never upgrade or buy another lens. Nikon high end users are still the most arrogant. (IMHO only) even as Nikon flails financially.

03-03-2019, 02:39 PM - 2 Likes	#20
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	The issue has to do with the price of the gear posted and the actual gear itself. Expensive manual lenses are a tough sell in many situations. Yes, they may be Zeiss lenses and top of the line, but the number of folks who enjoy using them is somewhat limited and the number of people who have 600 to drop on a lens limits that even more. I don't know that new camera bodies will change that fact. Photography is more about taking images and in that sense, the more images you take, the less you are paying per image. My experience is that if you buy gear used, you actually don't lose money on it when you resell, but you don't make money on it either. Still, I don't sell much because I actually use my lenses to take photos and it is hard to do that after they are sold...

03-03-2019, 02:44 PM - 1 Like	#21
tvdtvdtvd Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,665	Originally posted by limestonecowboy I get the impression that some e-bay users don't understand the concept of "offers", they either don't make an offer or make a silly half price offer. True, but the same can be said for some sellers. Either sellers who list at 2x market but are willing to take an offer for 30% off, or a seller who lists close to market then rejects an offer for 10% off.

03-03-2019, 03:03 PM	#22
Aaron28 Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Huntsville, Al Posts: 7,131	maybe no impact on lenses (yet) but the K-1000 is going crazy because of celebrity influence whether or not it will translate to those folks buying lenses different story as its a current trend to have the 'vintage' body they have

03-03-2019, 04:28 PM - 1 Like	#24
JHfwp Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 876	On the bright side, there are some good deals to be had.

03-03-2019, 04:34 PM	#25
SSGGeezer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Indiana, U.S. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,845	Those of us with severe LBA like the lower prices, even if we can't shoot with more than one lens at a time!

03-03-2019, 05:04 PM	#26
AggieDad Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Houston, TX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,455	It's all a matter of perspective, isn't it? For those of us who are buyers, lower prices are nice.

03-03-2019, 06:50 PM - 2 Likes	#28
arnold Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,295	My feeling is that the image quality of phones has improved to such an extent, that phones have sucked a huge segment of the population out of the camera market. What remains are the professionals, the enthusiasts, the gear technical nerds, and a few nostalgic hangers on.

03-03-2019, 08:02 PM	#29
Merv-O Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Philadelphia Photos: Albums Posts: 2,098	Originally posted by arnold My feeling is that the image quality of phones has improved to such an extent, that phones have sucked a huge segment of the population out of the camera market. What remains are the professionals, the enthusiasts, the gear technical nerds, and a few nostalgic hangers on. That's about right. Who do you think hangs out at this Forum? "....the professionals, the enthusiasts, the gear technical nerds, and a few nostalgic hangers on.' Outstanding.

03-03-2019, 11:28 PM - 1 Like	#30
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,239	Originally posted by arnold My feeling is that the image quality of phones has improved to such an extent, that phones have sucked a huge segment of the population out of the camera market. What remains are the professionals, the enthusiasts, the gear technical nerds, and a few nostalgic hangers on. How about the selling price of used smartphones? (IMO, selling price of 3 years old phone model used is near $0..). Camera is one of the electronic good that retain its value the most, all for a lot of electronic devices the price is reduced in half the next day after you buy it. No body wants to buy old electronics simple because the appeal of electronic devices is based on novelty and not based on usefulness.