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06-06-2019, 11:54 AM - 1 Like   #166
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QuoteOriginally posted by totsmuyco Quote
Quite true. People want their cameras to do everything. Probably a camera for dummies or idiot proof cameras would sell well. But the truth is, it takes fun out of photography. I would admit, it's easier to shoot using MILC as you can easily see the results before you make your shots. However, having the desired picture run through your imagination while composing and applying your techniques to make your shot is really fun. Then after you've taken your shot, chimping and saying those ooohhs and aahhhs is a complete confirmation that you got what you wanted. Now that is complete satisfaction.
Even with the mirrorless cameras i have had and tested i still get better results including focus than what the camera does automatically so the EVF preview looses about 50% of it's value. Most automatic features in electronics are "best guess" and then it's more of a wild guess and even then they lack basic error handling that even a Commodore C-64 computer had.

My other recent posting of converting another person (or two) to Pentax the person was using a Sony A6000 but they couldn't get over how much better my KP was and went to and bought one a few days later. If he needs an evf there is nothing preventing him from using mirror up mode with the rear lcd (live view). You can buy or make cowls for the rear LCDs of cameras that make them into a kind of eye level evf. It's a bit more bulky but it works.

Aliexpress sku: 32981567357 (generic including support for Pentax).

Aliexpress sku: 32847683862.

Aliexpress sku: 870648929.


Last edited by solitudebound; 06-06-2019 at 12:26 PM.
06-06-2019, 04:42 PM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by solitudebound Quote
Even with the mirrorless cameras i have had and tested i still get better results including focus than what the camera does automatically so the EVF preview looses about 50% of it's value. Most automatic features in electronics are "best guess" and then it's more of a wild guess and even then they lack basic error handling that even a Commodore C-64 computer had.

My other recent posting of converting another person (or two) to Pentax the person was using a Sony A6000 but they couldn't get over how much better my KP was and went to and bought one a few days later. If he needs an evf there is nothing preventing him from using mirror up mode with the rear lcd (live view). You can buy or make cowls for the rear LCDs of cameras that make them into a kind of eye level evf. It's a bit more bulky but it works.

Aliexpress sku: 32981567357 (generic including support for Pentax).

Aliexpress sku: 32847683862.

Aliexpress sku: 870648929.
It's more fun to shoot a DSLR compared to MILC. My imagination goes wild and I get full satisfaction after I see that I got the shot I wanted. EVF has no value to me. Well maybe if everything or all companies go to mirrorless, heaven forbid it, then maybe I'll go into it. If that happens I won't have a choice.

Last edited by totsmuyco; 06-06-2019 at 05:10 PM.
06-07-2019, 01:28 AM   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Because I disagree with you very very strongly. Yes, this is about Pentax AF, but it should focus on current Pentax AF, not on Pentax AF of yesteryear. Your experience is all with ancient equipment - not with what Pentax is selling today, not with what will lead to Pentax of the future.
and that is where Pentax can improve - replacing old designs with more modern stuff.
You can disagree whatever you want, but I posted nothing false so you are disagreeing with facts. And to my understanding the OP nowhere said it is about current cameras. Besides, i bought ks1 brand new in 2017. So thats not like some ancient history and for my it is the current camera.
Yes, pentax screw drive lenses can be improved. I hope they are. But then again, my gripes about screw driven lenses are about something else...

Last edited by Trickortreat; 06-07-2019 at 01:37 AM.
06-07-2019, 02:36 AM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by Trickortreat Quote
You can disagree whatever you want, but I posted nothing false so you are disagreeing with facts. And to my understanding the OP nowhere said it is about current cameras. Besides, i bought ks1 brand new in 2017. So thats not like some ancient history and for my it is the current camera.
Yes, pentax screw drive lenses can be improved. I hope they are. But then again, my gripes about screw driven lenses are about something else...
When was Pentax's last new screw driven lens released on the market? My guess would be the HD DA 55-300mm which was released in 2013. I suppose they sort of re-released the FA 35 recently (although that was more just a new coating job). Regardless, it is clear that while the screw driven lenses do remain in the catalog, Pentax is moving away from them.

Obviously your opinion is valid. I would just say that Pentax is a little more advanced with regard to auto focus than your gear might lead you to believe.

06-07-2019, 04:01 AM   #170
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QuoteOriginally posted by totsmuyco Quote
Quite true. People want their cameras to do everything. Probably a camera for dummies or idiot proof cameras would sell well.
That is where we are with both smartphones and new ILC camera models. The more the "firmware" = software-automation is mentioned and the more features have the prefix "auto-" the more you end up with a camera for dummies.

The vast majority of photographers want that (basically a "one-button-press" experience). That is where smartphone camera are ways ahead still - combined with their perfect portability.

The user requirement is perfectly valid for the majority of people.

It's *facepalm* for anyone who claims to be an "enthusiast" though.

Basically you have "purchased junk-food/burgers" versus someone who himself "cooks raw ingredients he bought personally on the weekly market".
There is good reasons for both and it is also clear where the majority goes.

The question is: on which end do you want to be?
06-07-2019, 05:04 AM   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
That is where we are with both smartphones and new ILC camera models. The more the "firmware" = software-automation is mentioned and the more features have the prefix "auto-" the more you end up with a camera for dummies.

The vast majority of photographers want that (basically a "one-button-press" experience). That is where smartphone camera are ways ahead still - combined with their perfect portability.

The user requirement is perfectly valid for the majority of people.

It's *facepalm* for anyone who claims to be an "enthusiast" though.

Basically you have "purchased junk-food/burgers" versus someone who himself "cooks raw ingredients he bought personally on the weekly market".
There is good reasons for both and it is also clear where the majority goes.

The question is: on which end do you want to be?
I guess I would say that while there are a bunch of "auto" modes, cameras have become increasingly complex and difficult for the average person to pick up. This actually makes it less likely that someone will transition from a smart phone to an ILC. The more menu diving you have to do to change things, the less likely it is that people will actually do so.
06-07-2019, 05:07 AM - 1 Like   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by Trickortreat Quote
You can disagree whatever you want, but I posted nothing false so you are disagreeing with facts. And to my understanding the OP nowhere said it is about current cameras. Besides, i bought ks1 brand new in 2017. So thats not like some ancient history and for my it is the current camera.
Yes, Pentax screw drive lenses can be improved. I hope they are. But then again, my gripes about screw driven lenses are about something else...
Your facts are old facts - not the facts experienced by someone who goes shopping today - one might as well complain about the camera systems sold by Pentax in 1995, the systems which caused me to use Canon for twenty years. Pentax cannot go back and fix history. You have not tried the no-longer-new 55-300 PLM lens on either the no-longer-new KP or the no-longer-new K-70. If you had, you would realize that your complaints are no longer valid. Pentax is addressing your complaints. If you want to fix these issues, purchase new equipment. Incidentally, the K-S1 always was lowest tier equipment, lower than even the K-50, then the K-S2.

Last edited by reh321; 06-07-2019 at 05:14 AM.
06-07-2019, 05:12 AM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
When was Pentax's last new screw driven lens released on the market? My guess would be the HD DA 55-300mm which was released in 2013. I suppose they sort of re-released the FA 35 recently (although that was more just a new coating job). Regardless, it is clear that while the screw driven lenses do remain in the catalog, Pentax is moving away from them.

Obviously your opinion is valid. I would just say that Pentax is a little more advanced with regard to auto focus than your gear might lead you to believe.
Yeh, would be nice if DA primes would be updated to more modern tech, but with funds that at disposal to Ricoh umaging division how likely is that?
I believe when you say that some other Pentax gear has better AF. Various web site tests comfir what you are saying. But i was writing about my experience. And that is KS1 with screw driven DA primes vs other manufacturers comparable gear at less then ideal lighting conditions. This is where my setup really fell short...

---------- Post added 06-07-19 at 02:14 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
You have not tried the no-longer-new 55-300 PLM lens on either the no-longer-new KP or the no-longer-new K-70. If you had, you would realize that your complaints are no longer valid. Pentax is addressing your complaints. If you want to fix these issues, purchase new equipment. Incidentally, the K-S1 always was lowest tier equipment, lower than even the K-50, then the K-S2.
I have no issues with Pentax AF. I rarely use AF. I was just writing of my experience. Take it or leave it i guess...

06-07-2019, 05:22 AM   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I guess I would say that while there are a bunch of "auto" modes, cameras have become increasingly complex and difficult for the average person to pick up. This actually makes it less likely that someone will transition from a smart phone to an ILC. The more menu diving you have to do to change things, the less likely it is that people will actually do so.
Yup.

The makers manage to screw up both ends. On one side they fill the cameras with tons of automated partial helpers. On the other side they manage to make it all excessively complex.

And obviously they can not win on the automation side against smartphones, which have much better computing resources.
06-08-2019, 06:33 PM - 1 Like   #175
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I went out to shoot with friends yesterday. Happened to shoot some flying cranes. Only to find out that I have 0 accuracy. By the way, it wasn't the camera that can't track. It was me who can't track the birds.

Now how can I blame my camera?������
06-08-2019, 06:48 PM - 2 Likes   #176
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QuoteOriginally posted by totsmuyco Quote
I went out to shoot with friends yesterday. Happened to shoot some flying cranes. Only to find out that I have 0 accuracy. By the way, it wasn't the camera that can't track. It was me who can't track the birds.

Now how can I blame my camera?������
Just do it, everyone else does. But it's an experience I've had too. It's really hard for the camera to lock focus, if i can't even keep the bird in the viewfinder.
06-09-2019, 01:34 AM - 1 Like   #177
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QuoteOriginally posted by totsmuyco Quote
I went out to shoot with friends yesterday. Happened to shoot some flying cranes. Only to find out that I have 0 accuracy. By the way, it wasn't the camera that can't track. It was me who can't track the birds.

Now how can I blame my camera?������
When I was using Canon 6D, I practiced a lot one thing: keeping birds in the frame as long as possible. I still do that from my balcony once a week following pigeons. As long as you practice this you will get better in 2 things:

- following the bird even for a second longer which is very important if you shoot with cameras with slow fps (K1, 6D, etc.)
- learning the birds behaviour

Keeping a bird in the frame at 200mm or 300mm is easy (the lens is light, you move quicker, etc.). Keeping a bird in the frame at 500mm or 600mm is more dificult and even with a sport oriented camera the results will not improve much as long as you don't learn the birds behaviour and you don't practice to keep the birds in the frame. The only thing that a sport oriented camera will help someone uniexperienced is in locking the subject if you manage to get it a split of a second in the frame. Here is where 1Dx Mark II blows my 5D Mark IV due to the dedicated fast af processor.
06-10-2019, 02:25 PM - 1 Like   #178
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The arguments suggesting you know nothing about Pentax af unless you use ONE specific lens* makes no sense. All that does is highlight that the lens lineup needs a refresh and that its not good enough at the moment.

*HD DA 55-300mm f/4.5-6.3 ED PLM WR RE
06-10-2019, 02:41 PM   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
The arguments suggesting you know nothing about Pentax af unless you use ONE specific lens* makes no sense. All that does is highlight that the lens lineup needs a refresh and that its not good enough at the moment.

*HD DA 55-300mm f/4.5-6.3 ED PLM WR RE
It makes as much sense as people saying Pentax AF sucks, as if every Canon, Nikon and Sony lens focuses faster on every camera.
We like this lens because we can afford it. For all I know the 70-200, 150-450 etc are just as good. My Tamron 300 2.8 is excellent for AF speed. Just because we talk about what we know doesn't mean there aren't just as good or better. My DA 18-135 from 8 years ago is quite fast as is my DFA 28-105. How many do you need? I suspect the DA 16-85 with the same type of motor as the 18-135 is good as well.

Pentax AF sucks has been nonsense since the K-3 was released.

We are talking about what we know to be good here, what are you talking about?

But if you really want to see what it can do, try a 55-300 PLM. If you're not impressed buy something else.
And honestly, if you haven't tried that lens, you probably don't know how good pentax can be. And I'd have absolutely no problem if someone wanted to put the fastest lens they own on camera and handing it to me just to experience the thrill. You don't know what it can do until you try it with a fast focusing lens, and that's true of any brand.

Mind you, the last time that happened with a Nikon D800 and 85 1.4 in a camera store, it wasn't any better than my K-3 with my Tamron 90. That was more than 5 years ago. Some guy makes up something, some guy repeats it, everyone repeats it's, it taken as fact. That's the way these things work.

You try and undo the damage, people make up reasons why your info doesn't count. Thanks for being such good example.
confirmation bias at it's best.

Last edited by normhead; 06-10-2019 at 02:52 PM.
06-10-2019, 03:20 PM - 2 Likes   #180
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A slightly different look at the autofocus issue.....

I'm in Yellowstone last week. There is a brown bear visible from the road. The Rangers are preventing anyone from stopping on the road and there is no place to pull over. There are steep drop offs at the edge of the pavement. So I rolled down the passenger window, held the K3 with DFA150-450 one handed while I drove by. No way to look through the view finder. While the picture isn't composed well, I thought the auto-focus did well in a difficult situation.
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