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03-06-2019, 04:16 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
Looks good, Beholder, what a shame the images have disappeared in the meantime!

03-06-2019, 04:18 PM - 2 Likes   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Yes,I'm subscribed to his stuff...seen it.

I'm on the K-1(version one), are you?
I'd love to see your AF-C pictures with it, @Surfar, as well as all those Fuji 4k videos you shot and have showing on big screens in your house.

The link I really wanted to show you was this one:

How does Pentax AF-C compare to other brands? - PentaxForums.com

And as Rondec has pointed out: "I found it interesting that the amazing XT-3 in beholder3's thread about AF-C only achieved about 40 percent "ok" series in which the majority of photos in the series were sharp and there were no complete fails."

So, you can accept Fuji marketng and YouTube videos (which Fuji customers pay for by being charged more for the crop X-Pro2 than Pentax do for full frame) - or believe actual tests.

DPR readers might be sucked in, but not here, please. I'm proud that standards are higher in this forum.

Last edited by clackers; 03-06-2019 at 04:54 PM. Reason: Minor edits
03-06-2019, 09:04 PM - 1 Like   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Except it doesn't. Showing that skill and technique comes into it, which you showed by raising your own rate to 90% as you said, Tosmuyco.

Proof is here, both the D7200 and K3-II are specifically measured and reported:

How does Pentax AF-C compare to other brands? - PentaxForums.com
Actually you gave me one of the tips clackers. I followed your advise to use spot or SEL to minimize the focus points so as not to confuse the camera as there will be a lot of focusing points confusing the camera and some might focus on the wrong areas. I also followed C_Jones' recommended settings on the K-3II. Yet when I tried it, I still got blurred shots only to diagnose that the my shutter speed was slow on some occasions especially during an overcast or when I failed to notice that the light was getting dim. Of course I use aperture priority most of the time. So I found out that it wasn't the tracking that was wrong. On bright days using aperture priority would give me a good shutter speed to freeze the images.

Then, Someone also recommended using TAv. Welllllllll. I tried it and it's perfect. So on poor lighting days, TAv is perfect. Sorry for the CanikonyFu guys. But we have it in Pentax technology.

Last edited by totsmuyco; 03-06-2019 at 09:13 PM.
03-06-2019, 09:49 PM - 1 Like   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by totsmuyco Quote
Then, Someone also recommended using TAv. Welllllllll. I tried it and it's perfect. So on poor lighting days, TAv is perfect.
I mostly use TAv for general birding, and it is ideal for that. I vary the shutter speed and aperture according to the light, movement, lens, focal length etc. I also use single point AF. But for my BIF setting (saved as User 1 on each camera) I use Tv with the speed at 1/1250th and multi-point AF. It will usually shoot wide open but that doesn't matter so much. I use multi-point AF for BIF because I think the camera will hit the spot on a moving bird better than I can while panning. That's the only situation in which I use multi-point AF.

03-06-2019, 09:56 PM - 3 Likes   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by totsmuyco Quote
Actually you gave me one of the tips clackers. I followed your advise to use spot or SEL to minimize the focus points so as not to confuse the camera as there will be a lot of focusing points confusing the camera and some might focus on the wrong areas. I also followed C_Jones' recommended settings on the K-3II. Yet when I tried it, I still got blurred shots only to diagnose that the my shutter speed was slow on some occasions especially during an overcast or when I failed to notice that the light was getting dim. Of course I use aperture priority most of the time. So I found out that it wasn't the tracking that was wrong. On bright days using aperture priority would give me a good shutter speed to freeze the images.

Then, Someone also recommended using TAv. Welllllllll. I tried it and it's perfect. So on poor lighting days, TAv is perfect. Sorry for the CanikonyFu guys. But we have it in Pentax technology.
Yeah, I'll often go TAv or Tv when doing sports and action. The shutter speed is all-important, you can't let the camera decide to sacrifice it to keep the exposure up.

In fact, once I'm happy by chimping that the exposures of the subjects are fine, I sometimes set it to M mode so that metering doesn't change because I'm panning from a dark background to a lighter one, four players with dark uniforms now take up a fair bit of the frame, etc. You might not normally do that in Event Photography like a festival because you're changing location endlessly, but in Sports you often find yourself parked in the same spot for a duration and this strategy's possible.

Last edited by clackers; 03-06-2019 at 10:31 PM.
03-07-2019, 01:02 AM - 1 Like   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Yeah, I'll often go TAv or Tv when doing sports and action. The shutter speed is all-important, you can't let the camera decide to sacrifice it to keep the exposure up.

In fact, once I'm happy by chimping that the exposures of the subjects are fine, I sometimes set it to M mode so that metering doesn't change because I'm panning from a dark background to a lighter one, four players with dark uniforms now take up a fair bit of the frame, etc. You might not normally do that in Event Photography like a festival because you're changing location endlessly, but in Sports you often find yourself parked in the same spot for a duration and this strategy's possible.

Thanks clackers
03-09-2019, 03:32 AM - 2 Likes   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Looks good, Beholder, what a shame the images have disappeared in the meantime!
Here they are:




and

03-09-2019, 09:17 PM - 2 Likes   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
Here they are:




and
Do the Canikony fanbois on this forum know about these results, Beholder?

03-10-2019, 01:38 AM - 3 Likes   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Do the Canikony fanbois on this forum know about these results, Beholder?
I do not think "knowing" is the bottleneck. "Acknowledging" is.

If you spend loads of extra money switching brands to compensate for your skill shortages you do not want to hear that the new shiny toys are still miles away from perfection. At least until in 2 years you buy the next shiny toy and then yes, the last one begins to "suck" suddenly. The hamster wheel turns and turns for some. And still they produce little to no photos good enough for showing here.

On this side of the other side you have competent shooters like Brooke Meyer, Des and others who just create wonderful images with the Pentax gear at hand today.

Guess who is "up" and who is "down"?
03-10-2019, 02:29 AM - 2 Likes   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Do the Canikony fanbois on this forum know about these results, Beholder?
We've seen when people move on that most of the times their photos don't particularly change with their new brand. That can be good and that can be bad, depending on the level of vision and skill they showed before their transition. But what clearly shows up is that, even in 2019, the gear is a small part of capturing great images.

That isn't to say that it is wrong to change brands -- clearly it is fine to do so -- just that people shouldn't expect the quality of their images to improve without putting some effort as well into improving their skills.

Last edited by Rondec; 03-10-2019 at 02:42 AM.
03-10-2019, 05:25 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
We've seen when people move on that most of the times their photos don't particularly change with their new brand.
Agree with everything you just said, Rondec.

Looking recently at two high profile PF members who earn money from photography but have changed brands in the last six months (I won't name them but you can guess ), their new pictures look just like the ones they took with Pentax - make of that what you will!
03-10-2019, 06:42 AM - 1 Like   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Looking recently at two high profile PF members who earn money from photography but have changed brands in the last six months (I won't name them but you can guess ), their new pictures look just like the ones they took with Pentax - make of that what you will!
There is a lesson to be learnt .


03-10-2019, 07:27 AM - 4 Likes   #58
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When you think about it, the whole idea that two people are standing in the place with different cameras shooting the same event, and get significantly different results is pretty bizarre. Even things like more dynamic range and colour depth can be pretty insignificant in real life situations.

When I stand by the guys who post on facebook out in the park, at the end of the day their images look pretty much like mine. And the difference is the timing of the image taken, which isn't under the control of the camera.

Or as I often said, "if you don't get good pictures with a point and shoot, you won't get good pictures with a full frame."

That said, a wedding photographer being able to program the face of the bride into the camera with eye AF on a A9 sounds like a wonderful thing. But I'd still have to make over $20k a year doing weddings for a couple of years before I'd consider buying one. Everyone in Whitney would have to get divorced and re-married every year.

Money not spent on gear is money to go to photo hot spots.
03-10-2019, 09:39 AM - 1 Like   #59
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This is interesting to go through each post., But I think I can add something. I think a good amount of all these AF tests are just funny, it makes you wonder how people even got shots with certain cameras back in the day. I tend to use different cameras for different reasons and events and I will have to say, that the Pentax equipment locks pretty well and pretty quick. The issues that I run into is when I am moving the points or tracking. Not so much that it doesn't work at all, just it is a little slow and not as user friendly as the other brands. I think that's where most of these tests fall short, familiarity with different brands. They each call menu items differently, you need to change different settings to optimize the camera, and as mentioned earlier the conditions make a difference. For someone who either sticks the camera on a tripod and zoom focuses, manual focuses, and simplistic when trying different tracking AF modes here is my take.

Pentax-great for single works quick, moving points can be slow. Setting up tracking can be too time-consuming. So essentially I stuck to manual or singlepoint

Olympus- The AF on this system works, quick for single but not as quick as the Pentax. When setting up tracking, I loved it. It was quick and easy, stick a box over the target, get quick confirmation, and leave item in box. This I used manual, singlepoint, and tracking

Fuji- it has been all over the place. In the GFX, it worked fine till you get to low light. Not as quick as the 645z. As far as the xt3, it is quick, easy, never felt I need to switch to continuous saying the EyeAF/facedetect works well. Even in low light this camera works well. I'd say I don't hit as much as Pentax which was spot on, though the tracking is easier and makes up for it. In decent light though, it is very similar that it is difficult to tell the difference on which one is better. The exception to that is with the joystick and face tracking Fuji works easier and better for it.

Canon- it's quick, accurate, and easy to set up. Really have no complaints for what I shoot. Tracking is easier compared to Pentax out of the box, should get better with future firmware updates. Although this might be a difficult thing to say, but it is quicker and just as accurate as Pentax for the type of shooting I do.


With that being said, if I had to pick which AF I liked the best because of how quick and easy the setup is I will pick Olympus. If I would pick manual focus, and single point under different lighting conditions I love Pentax. Then I'll pick the other brands after those two in alphabetical order. There is no highly rated tests that I did, just how easy it was to use in my shooting conditions, and how frustrated I got with them. I will say and others will disagree, Fuji has been my least favorite of the bunch. Maybe I need to work with it more, but it has been. Only item it has going for it is the joystick.

03-10-2019, 10:27 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fcsnt54 Quote
I think I can add something.
@Fcsnt54, I think you have certainly added interesting insights into an important aspect of camera focus operation -- user interfaces and 'usability', which is frequently ignored in discussions or reviews. I'd say that ergonomics and ease of use are crucial factors, complementing focus speed, accuracy, and precision. You obviously have experience across a range of brands and models.

You've mentioned several specific camera models. For completeness, would you mind indicating the Pentax and Olympus models to which you refer?

Also, you mention that "setting up tracking can be too time-consuming" in the case of Pentax. If you could provide just a bit more comment on this aspect, that might help us to fully appreciate your perception. Personally, I haven't had the breadth of experience with various brands, but have not felt that my Pentax cameras were cumbersome (my word) with respect to the tracking settings. Is it that you find the menus are difficult to navigate, or moving the focus points or focus areas is awkward?

Thanks.

- Craig
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