[Zooland]

Fuji makes good films.

[Trickortreat]

The problem with my K-S1 is it just wont focus fast enough in less then ideal light. Might be issue with lenses i use (DA primes mostly). Issue I didnt have with my old Nikon D300s for example... or friends Canon.
Tested a Nikon D3500 in store last week and it focuses faster with DX 35mm f1.8 than my K-S1 with DA 35 f2.4.
Few years back i tried to shoot my cousin's wedding with K-500 and Tamron 17-50. Camera didnt want to take pictures while in focus priority mode.
Thats my take on Pentax AF... good thing I dont rely on AF at all most of the time

[normhead]

The KS-1 is a 2015 camera, no longer available from Pentax. And you compared it to a new in store Nikon. Well, if that's the kind of information you're looking for here's one for you. I compared my K-3 to a Nikon D800 worth three times what it was, and found that with an expensive 85 1.4 on the camera it didn't focus any faster than my K-3 with a Tamron 90 on it. Also an in store test. I ad that just in case you think your in store test is representative of all such tests.

You probably could have improved your capture rate by reducing the level of or turning off focus priority. Focus priority checks to make sure the subject is in focus, once on initial focus and again before releasing the shutter. It's not the best for moving subjects or for off tripod images where hand shake moves the subject in the viewfinder. I've had success at times using shutter priority which gets rid of the focus confirm adjustments and just goes with initial focus.

Sounds like you didn't know your camera and how its different functions work.

The reason your store Nikon was faster was Nikon focus confirm is so slow, they don't do focus confirm the way Pentax does. To do the comparison you want to do you'd have to set the Pentax to shutter priority. Then it will focus and shoot the way a Nikon does. Nikon focus confirm takes more than twice as long as Pentax's. With different settings I have no doubt you could have achieved a better result with your Pentax gear. I suspect there isn't a focus confirm setting on a Nikon camera that does what Pentax focus priority max. hold does.

More power requires more knowledge.

[Trickortreat]

The KS-1 is a 2015 camera, no longer available from Pentax. And you compared it to a new in store Nikon. Well, if that's the kind of information you're looking for here's one for you. I compared my K-3 to a Nikon D800 worth three times what it was, and found that with an expensive 85 1.4 on the camera it didn't focus any faster than my K-3 with a Tamron 90 on it. Also an in store test. I ad that just in case you think your in store test is representative of all such tests.

You probably could have improved your capture rate by reducing the level of or turning off focus priority. Focus priority checks to make sure the subject is in focus, once on initial focus and again before releasing the shutter. It's not the best for moving subjects or for off tripod images where hand shake moves the subject in the viewfinder. I've had success at times using shutter priority which gets rid of the focus confirm adjustments and just goes with initial focus.

Sounds like you didn't know your camera and how its different functions work.

The reason your store Nikon was faster was Nikon focus confirm is so slow, they don't do focus confirm the way Pentax does. To do the comparison you want to do you'd have to set the Pentax to shutter priority. Then it will focus and shoot the way a Nikon does. Nikon focus confirm takes more than twice as long as Pentax's. With different settings I have no doubt you could have achieved a better result with your Pentax gear. I suspect there isn't a focus confirm setting on a Nikon camera that does what Pentax focus priority max. hold does.

More power requires more knowledge.

I have long experience with Nikon. You dont need to say me how to configure Nikons
Both d3500 and d300s focus confirm is considerably faster than my K-S1.
D300s is an ancient camera. And the friends Canon is some really old model too. Not top end like 7d or 80d too cause it has pentamirror viewfinder. He bought it 2nd hand 5 years ago.
Dont know about K3. Never used it. Bit what im saying is Pentax low end focusing module is indeed worse than competition in less than ideal lighting situations.

[Kobie]

I have long experience with Nikon. You dont need to say me how to configure Nikons
Both d3500 and d300s focus confirm is considerably faster than my K-S1.
D300s is an ancient camera. And the friends Canon is some really old model too. Not top end like 7d or 80d too cause it has pentamirror viewfinder. He bought it 2nd hand 5 years ago.
Dont know about K3. Never used it. Bit what im saying is Pentax low end focusing module is indeed worse than competition in less than ideal lighting situations.

To make a fair comparison you'd have to do a side by side with a current Pentax camera, such as a K-70 and same era Nikon such as a D5600. The KS-1 was using a similar mechanism to the K-30 (which I have, and I shot a Nikon (D5300) along side it. Yes the Nikon SEEMED faster using Phase Detect AF, but most times I'd have to re-focus because it wasn't accurate whereas my K-30 would confirm and was accurate. The Nikon also struggled sooner in low light than the K-30. Contrast detect in Live View was no contest. I'm not even sure why Nikon included Live view in the D5300, but they did and it was far from good (both focus speed wise and capture wise).
The other thing are the lenses being used on the cameras. You mention the Dx 35 1.8. Well, what's the focus throw on it? Maybe it's a shorter rotation from end to end so it can reach focus increments faster than the DA 35 2.4.
One of the fastest focusing lenses I've ever had was the Sigma 100-300 DL and the SIgma 70-300 DG Macro. My DA 50 1.8 is one of the slowest focusing lenses I own because the the throw is very long from end to end. This will make the biggest difference in focus speed, no matter what camera is being used.
When I was shooting the Nikon and Pentax together I had the Nikkor 18-140 VR II lens and compared the experience with both the DA 18-55 WR and DA L 50-200 WR.

[normhead]

I have long experience with Nikon. You dont need to say me how to configure Nikons

I didn't. I told you how to configure your Pentax, with which you seem to be clueless.

I don't have data for the KS-1 but the K-S2

Full auto-focus

Time from fully pressing shutter button to image capture. (All AF timing measured with Pentax 18-50mm f/4-5.6 kit lens.)

0.124s
https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/pentax-k-s2/pentax-k-s2A6.HTM

D3500 focus confirm

Time from fully pressing shutter button to image capture. (All AF timing measured with Nikkor AF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro lens unless otherwise noted.)

0.211s
https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-d3500/nikon-d3500A6.HTM



I've showed you that you are wrong. I've showed told you how to get the most out of your Pentax performance. When I offer advice like this I check relevant resources, in advance of replying I come up with a plan based on known independent tests and and observations. I don't need to listen to someone blowing smoke. You're wasting my time here.


Sadly despite my advice you still don't have a clue. You're one more ignorant post away from my ignore list.

Nikon AF confirm is so slow they don't use it when tracking. They estimate where they think the focus will be with an in camera algorithm will be and take the image without doing a focus confirmation. It works for subjects with smooth motion, not for subjects moving erratically. In all models 7200 and below that's what they do. But you know Nikon, why am I telling you?

[Trickortreat]

I didn't. I told you how to configure your Pentax, with which you seem to be clueless.

I don't have data for the KS-1 but the K-S2

Full auto-focus

0.124s
Pentax K-S2 Review - Performance

D3500 focus confirm


0.211s
Nikon D3500 Review - Performance



I've showed you that you are wrong. I've showed told you how to get the most out of your Pentax performance. When I offer advice like this I check relevant resources, in advance of replying I come up with a plan based on known independent tests and and observations. I don't need to listen to someone blowing smoke. You're wasting my time here.


Sadly despite my advice you still don't have a clue. You're one more ignorant post away from my ignore list.

Nikon AF confirm is so slow they don't use it when tracking. They estimate where they think the focus will be with an in camera algorithm will be and take the image without doing a focus confirmation. It works for subjects with smooth motion, not for subjects moving erratically. In all models 7200 and below that's what they do. But you know Nikon, why am I telling you?

Norm?
What did you link? What lenses did they use? What lighting conditions did they use?
And yes I said in the first post that camera was in focus priority mode, that pretty much meant i know there are other modes. I was just trying to compare apples to apples with cameras in SAME modes.
Id be happy if you added me to your ignore list. One more annoying person that doesnt address me. I only see benefits of that

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Last edited by MarkJerling; 05-29-2019 at 05:29 AM. Reason: Rude comments removed.

[Dan Rentea]

If the configuration and the placement of the buttons wouldn't be recognisable, I wonder how many people will be able to tell the difference in af speed and precision between a K-3 II, a D7200 and an 80D for example. I guess that a lot of enthusiastic photographers will have a tough time to find out which one is better if they don't know which camera they use. I also run an experiment these days with some friends that started photography using Fuji or Sony and they don't have experience with Canon or Nikon. What is interested is that their impression is influenced by some Youtube clips that I show them. I carrefully choose the videos so that I can see if it has some impact in their answers. And it does. If a camera is not doing great in terms of af in the video that I show them, their results are influenced by the Youtube video.

I use 80D and D7200 for tests because both Canon and Nikon have 70D and D7100 and my friends forget after a week what model they use so I can use the same cameras again and telling them that are different models.

The conclusions after the first test on 2 friends of mine are the same for the moment. In the first week they thought that both cameras perform similar and they couldn't pick a winner, but next week they picked a winner because they were influenced by the Youtube videos that I showed them. And people wonder why Tony Northrup (I showed to my friends some of their videos) and other Youtube reviewers are called influencers and why companies like Sony, Canon, Nikon are giving them cameras for reviews.

[normhead]

Id be happy if you added me to your ignore list. One more annoying person that doesnt address me. I only see benefits of that

We are in agreement on that at least.

[reh321]

Both d3500 and d300s focus confirm is considerably faster than my K-S1.
D300s is an ancient camera.

Norm is mostly right.

Comparing the K-S1 to D300 makes zero sense because K-S1 is a camera for beginners, while the D300 is just short of "professional".
Comparing the K-S1 to D3500 makes zero sense because K-S1 is five years old, and the D3500 is up-to-date.
I would add that any comparison needs to use comparable lenses, because focus is a result of teamwork between body and lens.

Norm is partly wrong.
AF is an important issue for Nikon - their top cameras devote an extra processor to AF.
AF is less important for Pentax - they devote their added processor to graceful high ISO performance, so any comparison is Apples vs Oranges.

My Pentax KP + 55-300 PLM lens focuses much better than my K-30 + older 55-300 did.
I'm guessing a comparable Nikon D500 "team" would focus even better, but I notice published tests show the $800 KP handles higher ISO much better than the $1500 D500 does.

[Trickortreat]

Comparing the K-S1 to D300 makes zero sense because K-S1 is a camera for beginners, while the D300 is just short of "professional".Comparing the K-S1 to D3500 makes zero sense because K-S1 is five years old, and the D3500 is up-to-date.I would add that any comparison needs to use comparable lenses, because focus is a result of teamwork between body and lens.

I just compared it to what i had on hands. D300s is a 2009 camera and the AF module from D3500 is ancient - it dates back to 2005.

[monochrome]

I have to wonder what motivates people to come on a discussion Froum, start commenting on a thread, contradict without support or citation the members who generously offer rational, polite, supported rebuttals - and continue so to do until the thread is completely hijacked and the discussion ruined.

What on earth could motivate a person to behave in this way?

[reh321]

I just compared it to what i had on hands

so you picked a convenient, but irrelevant,comparison.
Now we know the state of affairs ten years ago.
Go to the History Channel's website if that is all you have.

[MarkJerling]

Lets stop the personal attacks people and get back to the topic. And I agree - Pentax AF does not suck.

[normhead]

Norm is partly wrong.
AF is an important issue for Nikon - their top cameras devote an extra processor to AF.
AF is less important for Pentax - they devote their added processor to graceful high ISO performance, so any comparison is Apples vs Oranges.

Not really. My comments were fair for the cameras mentioned. I never said there weren't better Nikon (or Canons or Sonys) at higher prices. I used numbers from Imagine Resources, and the simple fact is for focus confirmation the Pentax AF system is near the top, go check the numbers yourself. The Sony A9, Nikon D4 and Canon 1Dx, have similar numbers to Pentax. you pretty much have to go top of the line from other brands. As I said, I check the evidence before I post. Don't waste my time if you haven't.

If you are going to criticize my opinion, which is based on the best info I've found from independent sites, at least do me the courtesy of looking at the information I post.

I know how good Pentax focus confirmation is, because I shoot beside those really expensive cameras in the field. With wild life, you focus on the critter, then wait for a good pose, then shoot. MY K-3 is as fast as anything out there if you are in a focus confirm as opposed to a focus acquire type situation. The Imagine Resources Numbers are just confirming my own observations.

Even against 1Dx and D4 shooters I often fire off the first frame, because, though pentax AF may be few 1/1000s slower (than those models) my reflexes at that moment are faster. The speed of the top end cameras doesn't make up for the limitations of most photographers.

And for whoever above tried to deflect their lack of knowledge and skill by trying to dismiss the IR numbers ( by actually lying and saying the lenses tested weren't listed, both lenses used were mentioned in the text of the reviews) . I trust IR to do impartial testing more than just about any other organization. Individuals in uncontrolled circumstances, I trust not a all. It's not up to me to figure out how they botched their test.

Being retired I have the time to research my observations. So when I notice something like my faster focus confirm and the fact that I've often taken 2 frames before my D7200 compatriots have fired their first frame, I go looking in the research to find out why that might be true. And in the case of focus confirm, my observations are backed up by reproduce-able science.

So, not even half worng here. Thanks for the vote of confidence.

The way you malign anything is , ignore what it does well, focus on what it doesn't do well. That tactic seems to be employed by Pentax owners against their own brand (probably as an excuse for their own poor results). To me its incomprehensible. You don't buy cameras for what they don't do, you buy them for what they do. How is that even possible to own a camera and not know the things that will enable you to use it effectively? If you don't know where your camera's strengths are, you can't exploit them. And you may end up thinking some other system is superior, because it does something better than your camera, because the guy who uses that camera knows how to exploit his cameras strengths, and you don't know how to exploit the strengths of yours.