[reh321]

Truth. Nikon Z6/Z7 AF is bad...however, what makes it horrendous is that the EVF has a 25ms lag and is prone to blackouts. What good is that crappy autofocus if you are viewing a scene that has already happened?

I love Nikon, but the first gen Z system is trash.

At 10fps, 25ms is 1/4-th of a frame; most times when I'm photographing action, I need to anticipate anyway - trip the shutter before I think I will want a photo - so I'm not convinced that delay will really matter. Add in a system like the smart phones are using - a 'circular buffer' that preserves the last n frames before the shutter is tripped - and it won't matter at all.

[normhead]

You can see in the 1st attached photo what the typical failure mechanism was - the camera and I focused on a point behind the dog. That's also what normally goes wrong (when it does - I get reasonable keeper rates) with soccer.

I've noticed as well, often I get the main part of the DoF behind the dog. I've often been tempted to set the lens adjustment to plus 5 or 10 for a shoot to see if I can correct that. But you also have to realize for a lens in focus 1/3 of the DoF is in front of the subject and 2/3s is behind, so some of what you re seeing is just normal lens behaviour, typical of any lens.

[ThorSanchez]

Yes, but what about background or ISO or learning to deal with dificult situations? If I want a background as sharp as the subject, I shoot with my phone. If I want to isolate a subject like the dog from the above image, I rather try and practice as much as I can to nail focus at f4, not at f7 or f9. The idea is to challenge yourself as much as you can in order to gain experience and get the shots in difficult situations. You will not improve your tehnique by shooting at f7-f9.

If I'm taking pictures of my kids playing soccer I'm probably going to do what gives me the best odds, it's less a science experiment and more family history. With the dog in the front yard... probably more likely to stretch my limits.

[Dan Rentea]

If I'm taking pictures of my kids playing soccer I'm probably going to do what gives me the best odds, it's less a science experiment and more family history. With the dog in the front yard... probably more likely to stretch my limits.

Take some safe shots with your kids so that you can have some images of them and then challenge yourself by trying panning shots, by shooting wide open, different angles, etc. Soccer is for a photographer 50% anticipation and 50% finding good/different angles. My father was a soccer coach and I played soccer quite a few years. It's a challenging sport for a photographer but with practice you can get very good images.

Please don't get me wrong here. I understand that you may miss a lot of shots by doing what I told you, but if you get a few safe shots by shooting at f7-f9 and on top of that you will get even a single very good image out of 400 out of focus images, you will be happier with that different image than you will be with 400 images in focus in which you will also get the background almost as sharp as the subjects. And that one image will push you next time to try and get more similar images.

If you want safe shots (the ones that looks like they are taken with smartphones because everything is in focus), then a micro 4/3 camera will give you at f7 a DOF equivalent of f14 on a full frame and you will have everything in focus.

[sutherland]

It's also important to note that AF Systems can be impacted when shooting at f/8.

[reh321]

It's also important to note that AF Systems can be impacted when shooting at f/8.

The DOF will be deeper.

[Dan Rentea]

It's also important to note that AF Systems can be impacted when shooting at f/8.

Only if you combine a lens with a TC and that combination will give you f8 at the widest aperture (300mm f4 with a 2x TC for example). In a situation like that the af may suffer depending on camera. It's a completely different thing shooting with a 300mm f4 lens at f8 and shooting with a 300mm f4 lens with a 2x TC at f8.

[sutherland]

The DOF will be deeper.

Only if you combine a lens with a TC and that combination will give you f8 at the widest aperture (300mm f4 with a 2x TC for example). In a situation like that the af may suffer depending on camera. It's a completely different thing shooting with a 300mm f4 lens at f8 and shooting with a 300mm f4 lens with a 2x TC at f8.

Interesting. Are we positive that when aperture is stopped down (regardless of TC), that the amount of points available is not limited?

Not arguing, just curious.

---------- Post added 03-27-19 at 03:10 PM ----------

At 10fps, 25ms is 1/4-th of a frame; most times when I'm photographing action, I need to anticipate anyway - trip the shutter before I think I will want a photo - so I'm not convinced that delay will really matter. Add in a system like the smart phones are using - a 'circular buffer' that preserves the last n frames before the shutter is tripped - and it won't matter at all.

Perhaps on paper. In use, focusing to a scene that has already passed (especially in fast shooting situations when panning with a moving subject) could be the difference between a shot in focus and one that is mis-focused.

Nikon doesn't deserve a pass for releasing a $2,000/$3,000 camera bodies a few firmware updates shy of matching the performance of products already on the market like the D750/D850.

[Dan Rentea]

Interesting. Are we positive that when aperture is stopped down (regardless of TC), that the amount of points available is not limited?

It's not. Keep in mind that there are kit lenses like 70-300mm that have f6.3 at 300mm and you have af on all af points no matter how much you close the aperture. The situation changes when you add a TC. The manufacturer will tell you in the user manual if your camera will have af at f8 if a 2x TC for example is added to a 300mm f4 lens and if it does, it will also specify with how many af points you can use the af.

But, even if in the user manual it is written that you will loose af at f8 if you add a TC, in very bright situations I had af (not very reliable) even with a D5300 with a 200-500mm f5.6 and a 1.4x TC.

[sutherland]

It's not. Keep in mind that there are kit lenses like 70-300mm that have f6.3 at 300mm and you have af on all af points no matter how much you close the aperture. The situation changes when you add a TC. The manufacturer will tell you in the user manual if your camera will have af at f8 if a 2x TC for example is added to a 300mm f4 lens and if it does, it will also specify with how many af points you can use the af.

But, even if in the user manual it is written that you will loose af at f8 if you add a TC, in very bright situations I had af (not very reliable) even with a D5300 with a 200-500mm f5.6 and a 1.4x TC.

What apertures are required to enable autofocus, including cross-type or high-precision focusing, on Canon DSLR cameras? - Photography Stack Exchange

'Canon EOS Digital Rebel (original, 300D), Digital Rebel XT (350D), Rebel XS (1000D), Rebel T3 (1100D), D30, D60, 10D
All points function to f/5.6; the center point is normal-precision cross-type (it is both vertical- and horizontal-sensitive to f/5.6 and is not high precision at f/2.8). All other points are single-line (EOS D30 and D60: vertical sensitive only). Autofocus does not function below f/5.6.'


Canon EOS Digital Rebel XTi (400D), Rebel XSi (450D), Rebel T1i (500D), Rebel T2i (550D), Rebel T3i (600D), Rebel SL1 (100D), Rebel T5 (1200D), Rebel T6 (1300D), 20D, 30D
All points function to f/5.6. The center point is cross-type, and all other points are single-line. The center point is high-precision dual cross-type with f/2.8 or faster lenses. Autofocus does not function with lenses narrower than f/5.6.

Could be camera/af system specific. This first excerpt is regardless of lens, just setting specific. The second excerpt specifies lenses narrower than f/5.6 (perhaps lenses with a max of f/5.6 or paired with a TC resulting in f/5.6 or narrower).

[clackers]

I get that one of the weak points in my attempts at photographing my dog was me. Possibly also my settings, in that I'd changed to nine-point auto instead of the single point I typically use for shooting soccer.

Big mistake, Thor!

I almost never use that except for, say, air shows.

If a strong line falls under one of those nine points it can decide to go there, and that means fences, signage, trees, spectators, etc.

As you've seen in Dan's post, you have to get the settings right.

[BrianR]

Could be camera/af system specific. This first excerpt is regardless of lens, just setting specific. The second excerpt specifies lenses narrower than f/5.6 (perhaps lenses with a max of f/5.6 or paired with a TC resulting in f/5.6 or narrower).

Lenses perform their autofocusing wide open and that aperture is what will determine which focusing points will be active. The first excerpt you quoted will be referring to the wide open aperture, and not the setting you use for taking the photo. Note they also say "Autofocus does not function below f/5.6". If this referred to the f-stop you took the photo at, there would be heaps and heaps and heaps of problems.

[sutherland]

Lenses perform their autofocusing wide open and that aperture is what will determine which focusing points will be active. The first excerpt you quoted will be referring to the wide open aperture, and not the setting you use for taking the photo. Note they also say "Autofocus does not function below f/5.6". If this referred to the f-stop you took the photo at, there would be heaps and heaps and heaps of problems.

I think this video helped cleared things up for me more than any of the chatter/threads/hearsay (where I probably got my misinformation).

You Tube

You Tube

[Dan Rentea]

I think this video helped cleared things up for me more than any of the chatter/threads/hearsay (where I probably got my misinformation).

Ask the Photographer EP: 1 | Relationship between Aperture and Autofocus - YouTube

Glad that you understood because he is a native english speaker and he explained better than I would have explained.

[Rondec]

Big mistake, Thor!

I almost never use that except for, say, air shows.

If a strong line falls under one of those nine points it can decide to go there, and that means fences, signage, trees, spectators, etc.

As you've seen in Dan's post, you have to get the settings right.

Most of the time when I am using AF-C I use the center point and try to keep that centered on my subject and just track them. I just have had way more success with that than choosing one of the auto modes and letting the camera figure things out for itself.

But I don't know if that is the "right" way to do things.