[Pål Jensen]

I've given up these "Pentax AF is useless" threads. I have had no problems with AF for years. Just like metering. To me it is good enough. The clue is to know how it works, and how to use it.

[clackers]

As a Pentax user for over 35 years, I don't think the autofocus tracking is anywhere near as good as the best, but I make it work for me even with small birds in flight, fast moving military jets and the like, it needs more skill from the photographer with a Pentax to get a decent shot and I don't generally machine gun and hope for the best, a subject coming relatively fast straight towards the camera is more difficult and subsequently less keepers.

Hi Chris, respectfully, I think you suffer from not shooting with other brands, so are in no position to compare. A German lab has tested many brands fast straight towards the camera and here are the results. They are not what you have been led to believe:


How does Pentax AF-C compare to other brands? - PentaxForums.com

The grass is always greener?

I love your gallery BTW, how lucky you are to shoot what I think is one of the most beautiful warbirds, the Avro Vulcan. And I love those shots taken from *inside* a plane or chopper.

Here's a snapshot I took just on Sunday, an unpainted F22 Raptor doing a flyover at our Avalon Air Show. This is a bog standard K-S2 (but with back button focus as you've already mentioned) and the humble 55-300 PLM kit zoom. That's a fast focusing lens, and the German results say that's a big, big factor. Panasonic's fastest lens is four times quicker than its slowest, for example.

[clackers]

He has Nikon D500 and Nikon 200-500.

I once had a go of another guy's Nikon D500 and 600mm f4. That's twelve thousand dollars just for the lens.

I thought 'meh' about the focus, I'm sorry.

[BrianR]

A few minutes ago I had an utter failure with AF.C on a DA*300mm+k5iis, it couldn't even track a turkey that was literally standing still, it wasn't on a bike or anything. It was a sad showing. Maybe a newer model or different brand would help? Which cameras have warning beeps when the idiot holding the camera attempts to engage autofocus but had accidentally switched the lens to manual focus?

[clackers]

It's not that Pentax has an awful AF system, it's that Pentax is lagging behind other systems.

Well, have you seen this data, Kevin? It shows that the performance of the AF systems from other brands are similar, contrary to what you think or have been told:

How does Pentax AF-C compare to other brands? - PentaxForums.com

[clackers]

A few minutes ago I had an utter failure with AF.C on a DA*300mm+k5iis, it couldn't even track a turkey that was literally standing still, it wasn't on a bike or anything. It was a sad showing. Maybe a newer model or different brand would help? Which cameras have warning beeps when the idiot holding the camera attempts to engage autofocus but had accidentally switched the lens to manual focus?

I think the camera should detect that its lens hood is on backwards and that the user is wearing a 'Tony Northrup Rocks!' t-shirt, Brian, give five loud beeps and shut itself off.

[Docrwm]

From someone who has come to Pentax from Nikon in the last two years and is appalled by what he's read on the Internet:

"There seems to be a lot of hype over how bad the autofocus is on the Pentax and I would like to share with what I have … some of these people … don't have a portfolio … don't even know how to use the camera. …. they're not diving into the menus to adjust the autofocus … "

See a German lab's testing of tracking in the difficult Z direction scientifically compared to other brands here: How does Pentax AF-C compare to other brands? - PentaxForums.com


Pentax K1 Autofocus Samples - Can it focus? - YouTube

Great video. Problem is that I have a completely different experience having shot Pentax dSLRs for9 years. When I go head to head with a novice with a mid-grade Nikon of Canon - they nearly always have more keepers on action shots than I do. They almost always get focus lock first at soccer. Sorry, but I shot film for years and did sports and know the techniques. Heck, I gave my sister an entry-level Nikon and she got more locks more immediately than I did with my K5.


For those who keep asking for details, don't you ever shoot action shots with your camera?

Initial focus acquisition - Pentax looses to Canon and Nikon.
Continuous Focus Maintenance with fast moving object toward the camera - Pentax looses to Canon and Nikon.

Do I still shoot Pentax? Yes. Why? Hmmmm.....ergos, cost, WR, color rendering, and investment. Do I wish we had better AF, particularly AF.C? Absolutely.

---------- Post added 03-06-19 at 08:08 PM ----------

Well, have you seen this data, Kevin? It shows that the performance of the AF systems from other brands are similar, contrary to what you think or have been told:

How does Pentax AF-C compare to other brands? - PentaxForums.com

OMG! Yes, initial focus it won (although that is completely inconsistent with my experience with the K3 vs a D7200), but in low light once the K-3II loses focus it never seems to catch up.

[c.a.m]

This is related to AF performance.

Edit: After further testing, and considering the comments by @sutherland, below, I would like to change my conclusions to the following:

• K-3 II, HD DA 35mm Limited lens
• Set AF Button Customization to "AF Button" focusing only (Enable AF2)
• Custom Setting C3/15, AF.S Setting set to "Focus Priority"
• AF.S
• Single shot
• While keeping the AF Button pressed, the shutter will not release unless the subject is in focus
• If the AF Button is released after focusing, the shutter will fire even if the subject is not fully in focus
• Of course, if the AF Button is not re-pressed after an initial (focused) shot, the camera will release at subsequent targets even if they are out of focus.

So, it's not a "quirk."

Recently, I discovered a quirk in the K-3 II AF settings, through my experience with the camera and reading forum posts.

When 'AF Button Focus' (aka back button focus) is enabled and the shutter button focus is disabled (i.e., button customization menu setting AF2), the camera's focus priority settings are not functional. The shutter will fire whether focus is attained or not,even if Custom Setting 15 is set to "Focus-priority."

Some other Pentax users have realized this effect and there had been several discussions a while ago here in PF, which I probably ignored at the time. I don't know whether the more recent Pentax cameras such as the K-1 or KP also have this quirk.

I understand that this is also a characteristic in the new Nikon Z 6 and Z 7.

To me, this was a 'ah ha moment' and reinforced the importance of knowing one's gear and applying the right techniques for each shooting situation.

- Craig

[Lowell Goudge]

I never understood all the negative bs for AF focus tracking

PZ1 with K 300/4 ans SMC-F 1.7x AF adaptor

Red shouldered hawk flying straight at me


DSLRs are only better

[monochrome]

Based on my experience Pentax does fine when bird is against sky background, and flight path is long. Problem is when the background is muddy and initial response of AF system. I go with my friend for birding. He has Nikon D500 and Nikon 200-500. When bird comes unexpectedly his setup is good at grabbing initial focus. My friend is novice photographer. He bought his first camera 1.5year ago and does not know what is CPL filter. He has just one body & one lens, and does not shoot anything other than Wild life. His photography world is very narrow and so is his technique. After seeing him I think technology makes lot of difference.

Great video. Problem is that I have a completely different experience having shot Pentax dSLRs for9 years. When I go head to head with a novice with a mid-grade Nikon of Canon - they nearly always have more keepers on action shots than I do. They almost always get focus lock first at soccer. Sorry, but I shot film for years and did sports and know the techniques. Heck, I gave my sister an entry-level Nikon and she got more locks more immediately than I did with my K5.


For those who keep asking for details, don't you ever shoot action shots with your camera?

Initial focus acquisition - Pentax looses to Canon and Nikon.
Continuous Focus Maintenance with fast moving object toward the camera - Pentax looses to Canon and Nikon.

Do I still shoot Pentax? Yes. Why? Hmmmm.....ergos, cost, WR, color rendering, and investment. Do I wish we had better AF, particularly AF.C? Absolutely.

---------- Post added 03-06-19 at 08:08 PM ----------




OMG! Yes, initial focus it won (although that is completely inconsistent with my experience with the K3 vs a D7200), but in low light once the K-3II loses focus it never seems to catch up.

But that’s using a 7 year old camera - and which lens?

This is 2019. Shoot the 55-300 PLM on a KP and then compare keepers. Even FA*300/4.5 on K-1 locks fast and tracks.

It is all about the age oof the hardware.

[reh321]

Here's a snapshot I took just on Sunday, an unpainted F22 Raptor doing a flyover at our Avalon Air Show. This is a bog standard K-S2 (but with back button focus as you've already mentioned) and the humble 55-300 PLM kit zoom. That's a fast focusing lens, and the German results say that's a big, big factor. Panasonic's fastest lens is four times quicker than its slowest, for example.

I have found that my 'skill' has greatly improved since I switched from K-30 + DA 55-300 to KP + DA 55-300 PLM.

[chrism888]

I love your gallery BTW, how lucky you are to shoot what I think is one of the most beautiful warbirds, the Avro Vulcan. And I love those shots taken from *inside* a plane or chopper

Thank you Clackers,


Whilst I've not owned any other brands, I have been around many friends with Canikon and see how easy it is sometimes, Thanks for the comment on my Aviation images, all the flying shots were shot standing on a Hill in North Wales and not the result of any privileged access of any sort :-)

[sutherland]

Recently, I discovered a quirk in the K-3 II AF settings, through my experience with the camera and reading various forum posts.

When 'AF Button Focus' (aka back button focus) is enabled and the shutter button focus is disabled (i.e., button customization menu setting AF2), the camera's focus priority settings are not functional. For example, if you're in AF.C mode and pressing the AF button, the shutter will fire whether focus is attained or not (i.e., it defaults to 'release priority' regardless of the custom menu settings 16 and 17).

Some other Pentax users have realized this quirk and there had been several discussions of this issue a while ago here in PF, which I probably ignored at the time. I don't know whether the more recent Pentax cameras such as the K-1 or KP also have this quirk.

I understand that this is also a 'feature' in the new Nikon Z 6 and Z 7.

It's not a quirk.

Back Button Focus simply maps the Focus to another button on the camera. On some systems, the focus can only be mapped to a dedicated 'AF' or 'AF-On' button, whereas on other systems, you can map it to any number of buttons.

Shooting Priority is not exclusive to Back Button Focus. You can have Shooting Priority on Shutter Half Press. Shooting Priority is just a rule that the user sets within the camera. With Nikon, you have the following modes on the D5/D500/D850 AF system
- Focus (only fires when the camera feels it has established focus)
- Focus + Release (Focus is given priority for the first shot, whereas subsequent shots in a continuous series do not need to be in focus)
- Release + Focus (First image does not need to be in focus, however the camera can slow frame rate in subsequent shots if camera identifies an opportunity for improved focus)
- Release (fires regardless)

I personally prefer Release Priority as I like to have full control on when I want the camera to fire.

Canon, Fuji, Sony, Pentax all have these modes in their AF systems.

For Pentax, I believe they call it:
- Focus
- Auto
- FPS

In regards to Nikon, these focusing controls have been in place for years and years.

[normhead]

For those who keep asking for details, don't you ever shoot action shots with your camera?

And yet, I seem to do quite well with wildlife images against competitors of all different brands. Different folks have different expereinces. As I said, for most of us, whether a cameras AF is good has nothing to do with shooting sports. I suspect for sports a single point AF.s would be better than tracking on Pentax. But there are no sports to shoot where I live, so i don't know. And Pentax tracking on a K-3 has worked for me for birds in flight on the few occasions I've needed it. It really doesn't need to be better for my use. I'm guessing Pentax would lose money spending a lot on tracking, it would be hard to recoup. Adding a few hundred in cost to the new flagship would probably just drive me to a K-P. Most of us don't want to pay for what we don't need.

But if I needed sports I'd probably just buy a D7200 or something. The fact that there are other systems that will do the job means Pentax is not going to be able to price and fast tracking models at a premium. Pentax AF tracking is acceptable for all but the most demanding shooters, everyone of which think the fact that Pentax AF.s doesn't work for them means is just bad and doesn't work for anyone else.

From my perspective, it's not bad, it's appropriate to my needs.
But for the guys like Docrwm, my question would be, "with Pentax;s market share, how would they recoup the cost of developing better AF.c tracking?" Canon or Nikon's fast tracking models probably make up less than 5% of their market share and it's still suspected their higher performance models are subsidized both by trickle down tech making it's way down to lower end models, and directly, buy profits from low end models being sent to aid in product development for the higher end models. So if those companies are making a go with 5% of 40% market share, how is Pentax supposed to make a go of it wit 5% of 3% market share?

Pentax developing industry sleading AF.c tracking is just not feasible and it could be argued those arguing for it's development are in essence arguing for the death of the company.

If you want the tracking performance of some other camera, buy that camera. My personal opinion is that's an option, since the K-1 is the better landscape/wildlife option. A sports camera with fast a AF and a 200-500 lens or whatever for sports and a K-1 for the rest would be the way to go from my perspective. Pentax to date has shown absolutely zero interest in sports photography, whether we are talking the speed of their lenses AF, the tracking ability of the cameras or pronouncements from their execs.

The issue at this point is if you value sports photography, why hang around and blame Pentax for being what they've always been? Someone's bad decision shouldn't translate to me having to listen to someone's habit of looking over the fence.

Initial focus acquisition - Pentax looses to Canon and Nikon.
Continuous Focus Maintenance with fast moving object toward the camera - Pentax looses to Canon and Nikon.

Is there a source for that?
The biggest problem in focus acquisition with focus acquisition on moving subjects is operator camera movement. We need controlled tests, which you haven't provided, except to make me suspect some can't hold a camera as still as a novice can. I'm always concerned when folks are posting anecdotal information based on uncontrolled tests, in which it is assume they shoot with the same prowess as every one else. That's like me saying if I shoot with the same basketball Micheal Jordan did, I'll hit more three pointers. It may be true, but it's far from proven.

[derekkite]

And yet, I seem to do quite well with wildlife images against competitors of all different brands. Different folks have different expereinces. As I said, for most of us, whether a cameras AF is good has nothing to do with shooting sports. I suspect for sports a single point AF.s would be better than tracking on Pentax. But there are no sports to shoot where I live, so i don't know. And Pentax tracking on a K-3 has worked for me for birds in flight on the few occasions I've needed it. It really doesn't need to be better for my use. I'm guessing Pentax would lose money spending a lot of tracking, it would be hard to recoup. Adding a few hundred in cost to the new flagship would probably just drive me to a K-P. Most of us don't want to pay for what we don't need.

I started shooting with a K-5 and a 400mm manual focus lens. In some conditions I was able to get birds in flight. With the K3 I used autofocus and got many many very nice shots. My impression was that it lacked processing power; there was lots of information from the focus sensors and the metering array but it couldn't process it in a timely way. The K1 is about the same, a bit better. The Mark II is much better. It seems to have the processing power to react quickly enough. I'm taking birds in flight shots with the K1 II and the 150-450 with some assurance that I'll get something decent.

But it comes at a cost. I could get a full frame body with a huge array of focus points and very quick refresh rate for twice the money that I paid for the K1. And I could get an apsc body with the same characteristics for twice the money as I paid for the K3.

I see your shots and looking at mine. The quality is directly proportional to how close we manage to get to the subject. A pair of hip waders or a portable blind are likely to get me more keepers than twice as many photos of the same thing far away that a couple thousand dollars would get me.