[rawr]

The size is largely dictated by optics. And electronics.

Good illustration. Look at all that air space in the body.

I think the K-01 made it clear that the SR electronics wasn't a huge contributing factor to body depth in K-mount. With the K-01, even throwing away the mirror and viewfinder optics entirely still left the need for a rather thick body, showing that the real culprit is K-mount flange distance.


img source

But the K-01 does show that, perhaps with a less boxy body design, a Pentax FF mirrorless could be decently compact whilst retaining K-mount.

[rawr]

Please look again at the drawings you posted above.

11mm is not huge re A7/A7 II. A few minor changes to the body design in the A7 II may have accounted for those extra mm. The chassis for example is stronger, more metal etc.

Speaking of the A7 II - I remember I put together this comparison a few years ago showing the striking similarities re Pentax SR and Sony IBIS.



At the time, Pentax & Sony were even using the same male model (or photoshopping the same stock photo) to sell the K-3 or A7 II as outdoorsy cameras.

[bobmaxja]

Funny, some peoples find the KP too small and other want a K-1 the size of a KP. Strange... If the K-1 was the same size of the KP, peaples will complaint and would want to have a K-1 the size of D850 or others FF. What a waste of time . The body is nothing without a lense and who care about 1 cm when the lens measure more than 30 or 50 or 60 cm long. I am lost... but it's fun to read , Don't stop , I am having fun every night. And I have a KP and have fun using it

[totsmuyco]

Well look at this!!! Another mirrorless entrant with so much confusion. Canon E-mount with m4/3 sensor to produced by a flash company. I mean holy mackerel!! Can you imagine what kind of R&D they did on this camera? This is monstrosity!!!

You Tube

You Tube

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Last edited by totsmuyco; 03-20-2019 at 04:48 AM.

[pakinjapan]

Funny, some peoples find the KP too small and other want a K-1 the size of a KP. Strange... If the K-1 was the same size of the KP, peaples will complaint and would want to have a K-1 the size of D850 or others FF. What a waste of time . The body is nothing without a lense and who care about 1 cm when the lens measure more than 30 or 50 or 60 cm long. I am lost... but it's fun to read , Don't stop , I am having fun every night. And I have a KP and have fun using it

just try to have a civilize conversation, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Belnan]

If you read the interview by Pentaxforums at CP+2019. Look closely at Q9. I am highly speculated (or fantasizing it, you decide!) that they are trying something like that somewhere in the basement of Ricoh building in Tokyo, miniature FF DSLR to the size of SLR. !!!

And on another point, I recently found this image online. Left a crop mirrorless body Vs Right 1972 SLR with mirror box in it + pentaprism on the head. The overall thickness doesn’t look that much difference. It is a crop vs ff body we are seeing here.

https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/omd-em5/ZCOMPOM1TOP.JPG

1. Is it possible concerning the technology at hand today to have FF DSLR built in the size of the KP body? (and still can do everything KP or K3II does.) I remember reading something similar and back then one of the speculations was the SR system, but now as we see from Sony A7III. It has a built-in 5-Axis image stabilization. Sony proves that it possible now.

2. what needs to be sacificed to achieve such a small size?
I am just thinking out loud here. Let me know your thoughts.

I am more focus on physical size and weight of the Digital FF body today because that will make or break me with the brand. Hope it won't be turned to Mirrorless vs DSLR things. Focus on what possible, not possible to make it physically as small/light as a good old-time SLR body.

It can be done but they would have to remove the mirror and replace the viewfinder with an EFV. If they could relocate some of the electronics it could help too. This would get pretty close to the size of the KP and reduce the weight somewhat.

[MarkJerling]

It can be done but they would have to remove the mirror and replace the viewfinder with an EFV. If they could relocate some of the electronics it could help too. This would get pretty close to the size of the KP and reduce the weight somewhat.

Indeed.

And, the OP said....

I am more focus on physical size and weight of the Digital FF body today because that will make or break me with the brand. Hope it won't be turned to Mirrorless vs DSLR things. Focus on what possible, not possible to make it physically as small/light as a good old-time SLR body.

So, at risk of making this a EVF vs OVF discussion, I can't see how the size can be significantly reduced unless it becomes a mirrorless camera (in which case they've lost me as a customer) or unless they find a way to significantly miniaturise the electronics, which brings it's own special problems with regard to heat management, cost, complexity and need for special miniaturised connectors to the miniaturised motherboard / chip.

[peterh337]

I don't like current mirrorless but for obvious technological reasons it must and will eventually dominate and mirrors will disappear. It will take some more years...

A big factor is the size of peoples' hands. I know a number of photographers, including "professional" ones, and some of them have huge hands. Maybe 50% wider then mine, and I am average (75kg / 1.75m). That is just the way the human species is - especially males which are the bulk of DSLR users. Some would say this is because photography is an obscessive / antisocial hobby (like e.g. fishing) and that is another trait mostly absent in females If you don't believe me, get into a ski lift, or walk into a ski shop and look at the size of most of their boot stock, and you will see that clearly most of them are built like gorillas. These men don't want small DSLRs. They can't hold them properly. The camera makers know this and are addressing this market...

I find the K1 is really big and carry it only on trips where (a) it is expected to be scenic and (b) I have not been there before. But as the poster above says, it is really the camera+lens which makes the thing so bulky, and you cannot do anything about the lens. Well, once you abandon full frame then you can. I started with the IST-DL (I chose Pentax for the small body size, having been an OM4Ti user) and the bodies have grown every time since then, with the FF K1 being a fair size jump.

In the meantime, the DSLR market is being eaten from the bottom pretty well. Look at the Huawei P20 / P30 PRO, the new Nokia with five 12MP cameras with software processing, etc. And this is in a device which you can and do always carry with you. In good light, it is hard to tell... I used to have a Nokia 808 (a large "bump on the back" camera, with a lens not matched by any phone since, with 40MP sensor downsampling to superb 12MP jpegs) and if you were displaying it 1:1 on a PC, you really could not tell between that and any DSLR. And the latest multi-sensor phones will probably be better still. So the DSLR market will continue to shrink.

[MarkJerling]

I don't like current mirrorless but for obvious technological reasons it must and will eventually dominate and mirrors will disappear. It will take some more years...

A big factor is the size of peoples' hands. I know a number of photographers, including "professional" ones, and some of them have huge hands. Maybe 50% wider then mine, and I am average (75kg / 1.75m). That is just the way the human species is - especially males which are the bulk of DSLR users. Some would say this is because photography is an obscessive / antisocial hobby (like e.g. fishing) and that is another trait mostly absent in females If you don't believe me, get into a ski lift, or walk into a ski shop and look at the size of most of their boot stock, and you will see that clearly most of them are built like gorillas. These men don't want small DSLRs. They can't hold them properly. The camera makers know this and are addressing this market...

I find the K1 is really big and carry it only on trips where (a) it is expected to be scenic and (b) I have not been there before. But as the poster above says, it is really the camera+lens which makes the thing so bulky, and you cannot do anything about the lens. Well, once you abandon full frame then you can. I started with the IST-DL (I chose Pentax for the small body size, having been an OM4Ti user) and the bodies have grown every time since then, with the FF K1 being a fair size jump.

In the meantime, the DSLR market is being eaten from the bottom pretty well. Look at the Huawei P20 / P30 PRO, the new Nokia with five 12MP cameras with software processing, etc. And this is in a device which you can and do always carry with you. In good light, it is hard to tell... I used to have a Nokia 808 (a large "bump on the back" camera, with a lens not matched by any phone since, with 40MP sensor downsampling to superb 12MP jpegs) and if you were displaying it 1:1 on a PC, you really could not tell between that and any DSLR. And the latest multi-sensor phones will probably be better still. So the DSLR market will continue to shrink.

Yup. What works for one, does not work for the other.
I've made my K-1 even bigger by adding the battery grip. Now, it's a really comfortable size for me. Before, it was a bit on the small side!

[totsmuyco]

I don't like current mirrorless but for obvious technological reasons it must and will eventually dominate and mirrors will disappear. It will take some more years...

A big factor is the size of peoples' hands. I know a number of photographers, including "professional" ones, and some of them have huge hands. Maybe 50% wider then mine, and I am average (75kg / 1.75m). That is just the way the human species is - especially males which are the bulk of DSLR users. Some would say this is because photography is an obscessive / antisocial hobby (like e.g. fishing) and that is another trait mostly absent in females If you don't believe me, get into a ski lift, or walk into a ski shop and look at the size of most of their boot stock, and you will see that clearly most of them are built like gorillas. These men don't want small DSLRs. They can't hold them properly. The camera makers know this and are addressing this market...

I find the K1 is really big and carry it only on trips where (a) it is expected to be scenic and (b) I have not been there before. But as the poster above says, it is really the camera+lens which makes the thing so bulky, and you cannot do anything about the lens. Well, once you abandon full frame then you can. I started with the IST-DL (I chose Pentax for the small body size, having been an OM4Ti user) and the bodies have grown every time since then, with the FF K1 being a fair size jump.

In the meantime, the DSLR market is being eaten from the bottom pretty well. Look at the Huawei P20 / P30 PRO, the new Nokia with five 12MP cameras with software processing, etc. And this is in a device which you can and do always carry with you. In good light, it is hard to tell... I used to have a Nokia 808 (a large "bump on the back" camera, with a lens not matched by any phone since, with 40MP sensor downsampling to superb 12MP jpegs) and if you were displaying it 1:1 on a PC, you really could not tell between that and any DSLR. And the latest multi-sensor phones will probably be better still. So the DSLR market will continue to shrink.

I agree. The DSLR market will continue to shrink. More people are favoring small size, light weight and all the perks of MILC whatever they are. I guess we just have to enjoy our DSLRs before they become obsolete. Someday we DSLR lovers may be considered as a cult.