K200D--first impressions

k100d · 10-03-2008, 05:45 PM

add Exposure Compensation

heatherslightbox · 10-03-2008, 06:56 PM

I tried mounting the rest of my lenses on the K200 and I noticed with my heavier lenses (28-75, especially) that the camera/lens becomes front-heavy, which isn't an issue with the K10. I'll just have to make a special point that when using the K200 to better balance the lens in my left hand to shoot. I could simply get a grip for the K200, but the K200 is supposed to be my lighter weight second body. I'm seriously considering getting the DA16-45 to be the walkaround lens for the K200, once my LBA challenge is over.

Heather

drewdlephone · 10-03-2008, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by hotrod

So what do you do about the underexposure?

I can, perhaps, lend a hand here. CameraLabs is right... the camera does technically underexpose in most conditions. However, it depends on what you're shooting as to wether or not it's something that concerns you. As an example, I was shooting the picture below because of the sky/rock contrast. The lighter picture is with exposure compensation +1. It was shot in manual, and I upped the shutter speed to achieve the effect.

To me, the darker one looks better. The colors are more natural, and it WAS in fact that dark out. Technically speaking it's not as bright or vivid, but that's what was there. The bright one, to me, looks almost as if the sun was shining down on that rock, which it certainly was not. Please excuse the fact that the pictures are not identically framed... didn't have a tripod. Suffice it to say, the K200D takes very realistic looking pictures without tweaking it. That's my take on it anyways. The brighter picture is better exposed from an EV standpoint, but I don't think it looks better than the bottom one.

Marc Sabatella · 10-03-2008, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by hotrod

So what do you do about the underexposure?

There is no underexposure if you understand how to use a DSLR metering system. Point at a 18% gray target and you get a picture with 12-13% reflectance, just like the ISO standards say you should. If you understand this, and how to use the camera's controls to alter the default exposure and why and when this would ne necessary, you can get the exposure you want, every time, without fail.

**Canada_Rockies** · 10-03-2008, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by hotrod

So what do you do about the underexposure?

I do nothing. I like Mr. Pentax's supposed underexposure - it's less than a stop according to all the testers, and I guess that I grew used to it over the years. With slide film I did not have to trick the ASA/ISO to expose properly. Maybe I have an unusual k10d, but it's metering seems to be pretty good.

There are situations that fool meters. Hockey rinks are one, dark shaded forested areas are another.

heatherslightbox · 10-04-2008, 02:49 AM

Most of the time, I don' t have a problem with underexposure either. If I'm concerned that it might be an issue, then I'll simply bracket. Knowing the fundmentals of exposure helps in being able to use the manual setting to override whatever the camera may be telling you. If all else fails, then shoot in RAW and fix whatever problems crop up in PP.

Heather

marlon · 10-04-2008, 04:25 AM

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

There is no underexposure if you understand how to use a DSLR metering system. Point at a 18% gray target and you get a picture with 12-13% reflectance, just like the ISO standards say you should. If you understand this, and how to use the camera's controls to alter the default exposure and why and when this would ne necessary, you can get the exposure you want, every time, without fail.

My feeling as well.
It's not something you "notice". It's a natural occurence, and if you work from 'feeling' the image or from the histogram, then you always expose perfectly, so you don't 'realize' this effect.

hotrod · 10-04-2008, 08:06 AM

I asked that question because i have a canon XTI which of course has underexposure problem and it's realy annoying. At the canon forums everybody says it's user error and not the camera, which of course everybody knows it´s a camera problem . You guys admit that it does subexpose which i think is not a problem but that pentax likes it that way.
Getting rid of my canon stuff by the start of next year to get the k200d or the k20d and a good da*16-50 lens.

Clicker · 10-04-2008, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by hotrod

I asked that question because i have a canon XTI which of course has underexposure problem and it's realy annoying. At the canon forums everybody says it's user error and not the camera, which of course everybody knows it´s a camera problem . You guys admit that it does subexpose which i think is not a problem but that pentax likes it that way.
Getting rid of my canon stuff by the start of next year to get the k200d or the k20d and a good da*16-50 lens.

It's my understanding all digital cameras default to "under-exposure", in any auto/preset mode.

k100d · 10-04-2008, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by drewdlephone

To me, the darker one looks better. The colors are more natural, and it WAS in fact that dark out. Technically speaking it's not as bright or vivid, but that's what was there. The bright one, to me, looks almost as if the sun was shining down on that rock, which it certainly was not. Please excuse the fact that the pictures are not identically framed... didn't have a tripod. Suffice it to say, the K200D takes very realistic looking pictures without tweaking it. That's my take on it anyways. The brighter picture is better exposed from an EV standpoint, but I don't think it looks better than the bottom one.

if you like the darker photo, then that's the better picture for you. however i downloaded both photos to check the histograms and the second histogram is underexposed meaning you're losing a tonne of shadow detail. if it were me, i'd rather take the better exposed photo then make it darker in PP.

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

There is no underexposure if you understand how to use a DSLR metering system. Point at a 18% gray target and you get a picture with 12-13% reflectance, just like the ISO standards say you should. If you understand this, and how to use the camera's controls to alter the default exposure and why and when this would ne necessary, you can get the exposure you want, every time, without fail.

so you're saying every camera can meter a grey card on spot meter perfectly. great, but it's not practical to use a grey card most of the time. in the end it's about learning to use the camera to remember when it over / under exposes

Originally posted by hotrod

I asked that question because i have a canon XTI which of course has underexposure problem and it's realy annoying. At the canon forums everybody says it's user error and not the camera, which of course everybody knows it´s a camera problem . You guys admit that it does subexpose which i think is not a problem but that pentax likes it that way.
Getting rid of my canon stuff by the start of next year to get the k200d or the k20d and a good da*16-50 lens.

it is my understanding the underexposure is done to protect the highlights

---

on a side but related note,

if you shoot raw, the best way is to expose using the Expose Right method. the camera is more sensitive to brighter exposures and therefore expose your histogram all the way to the right but not touching. then when you decrease the exposure in PP, you don't more detail and less noise. sometimes this has involved me going to +2 EV. again this takes practice to get right

jgredline · 10-04-2008, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by k100d

it is my understanding the underexposure is done to protect the highlights

---

on a side but related note,

if you shoot raw, the best way is to expose using the Expose Right method. the camera is more sensitive to brighter exposures and therefore expose your histogram all the way to the right but not touching. then when you decrease the exposure in PP, you don't more detail and less noise. sometimes this has involved me going to +2 EV. again this takes practice to get right

hotrod · 10-04-2008, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by Clicker

It's my understanding all digital cameras default to "under-exposure", in any auto/preset mode.

Canon XTI also underexposes in manual mode.

jgredline · 10-04-2008, 10:34 AM

My wife shoots a Nikon D40 and my Daughter shoots a Nikon D200 and D300 and they under expose as well..

FHPhotographer · 10-04-2008, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

I can't speak for her, but I personally was willing to accept those things in order to gain the smaller/lighter body, more comfortable (for me) grip, AA batteries, quieter shutter, allegedly better high ISO performance including no VPN (even though it's the same sensor, it's the ADC and other elements of the pipeline differ), and the higher likelihood for firmware upgrades.

I'm interested if there is enough "extra" in the K200 to justify a move up from the K100 other than a 40% larger sensor that has denser photosites? I've compared them online, but I am curious how folks who have used them both say the K200 feels compared to the K100 and how it affects picture taking,
FHPhotographer

k100d · 10-04-2008, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by FHPhotographer

I'm interested if there is enough "extra" in the K200 to justify a move up from the K100 other than a 40% larger sensor that has denser photosites? I've compared them online, but I am curious how folks who have used them both say the K200 feels compared to the K100 and how it affects picture taking,
FHPhotographer

read khardur's review
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/22916-k200d-review.html

10-04-2008, 12:17 PM	#29
FHPhotographer Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Fountain Hills, AZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,297	Upgrade to K200? Originally posted by Marc Sabatella I can't speak for her, but I personally was willing to accept those things in order to gain the smaller/lighter body, more comfortable (for me) grip, AA batteries, quieter shutter, allegedly better high ISO performance including no VPN (even though it's the same sensor, it's the ADC and other elements of the pipeline differ), and the higher likelihood for firmware upgrades. I'm interested if there is enough "extra" in the K200 to justify a move up from the K100 other than a 40% larger sensor that has denser photosites? I've compared them online, but I am curious how folks who have used them both say the K200 feels compared to the K100 and how it affects picture taking, FHPhotographer

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10-03-2008, 05:45 PM	#16
k100d Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,911	add Exposure Compensation

10-03-2008, 06:56 PM	#17
heatherslightbox Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Gainesville, FL Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,599 Original Poster	I tried mounting the rest of my lenses on the K200 and I noticed with my heavier lenses (28-75, especially) that the camera/lens becomes front-heavy, which isn't an issue with the K10. I'll just have to make a special point that when using the K200 to better balance the lens in my left hand to shoot. I could simply get a grip for the K200, but the K200 is supposed to be my lighter weight second body. I'm seriously considering getting the DA16-45 to be the walkaround lens for the K200, once my LBA challenge is over. Heather

10-03-2008, 09:04 PM	#19
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by hotrod So what do you do about the underexposure? There is no underexposure if you understand how to use a DSLR metering system. Point at a 18% gray target and you get a picture with 12-13% reflectance, just like the ISO standards say you should. If you understand this, and how to use the camera's controls to alter the default exposure and why and when this would ne necessary, you can get the exposure you want, every time, without fail.

10-03-2008, 09:10 PM	#20
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385	Originally posted by hotrod So what do you do about the underexposure? I do nothing. I like Mr. Pentax's supposed underexposure - it's less than a stop according to all the testers, and I guess that I grew used to it over the years. With slide film I did not have to trick the ASA/ISO to expose properly. Maybe I have an unusual k10d, but it's metering seems to be pretty good. There are situations that fool meters. Hockey rinks are one, dark shaded forested areas are another.

10-04-2008, 02:49 AM	#21
heatherslightbox Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Gainesville, FL Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,599 Original Poster	Most of the time, I don' t have a problem with underexposure either. If I'm concerned that it might be an issue, then I'll simply bracket. Knowing the fundmentals of exposure helps in being able to use the manual setting to override whatever the camera may be telling you. If all else fails, then shoot in RAW and fix whatever problems crop up in PP. Heather

10-04-2008, 04:25 AM	#22
marlon Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Cape Town, South Africa Posts: 232	Originally posted by Marc Sabatella There is no underexposure if you understand how to use a DSLR metering system. Point at a 18% gray target and you get a picture with 12-13% reflectance, just like the ISO standards say you should. If you understand this, and how to use the camera's controls to alter the default exposure and why and when this would ne necessary, you can get the exposure you want, every time, without fail. My feeling as well. It's not something you "notice". It's a natural occurence, and if you work from 'feeling' the image or from the histogram, then you always expose perfectly, so you don't 'realize' this effect.

10-04-2008, 08:06 AM	#23
hotrod New Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Mar del Plata, Argentina Posts: 24	I asked that question because i have a canon XTI which of course has underexposure problem and it's realy annoying. At the canon forums everybody says it's user error and not the camera, which of course everybody knows it´s a camera problem . You guys admit that it does subexpose which i think is not a problem but that pentax likes it that way. Getting rid of my canon stuff by the start of next year to get the k200d or the k20d and a good da*16-50 lens.

10-04-2008, 08:44 AM	#24
Clicker Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,241	Originally posted by hotrod I asked that question because i have a canon XTI which of course has underexposure problem and it's realy annoying. At the canon forums everybody says it's user error and not the camera, which of course everybody knows it´s a camera problem . You guys admit that it does subexpose which i think is not a problem but that pentax likes it that way. Getting rid of my canon stuff by the start of next year to get the k200d or the k20d and a good da*16-50 lens. It's my understanding all digital cameras default to "under-exposure", in any auto/preset mode.

10-04-2008, 09:11 AM	#25
k100d Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,911	Originally posted by drewdlephone To me, the darker one looks better. The colors are more natural, and it WAS in fact that dark out. Technically speaking it's not as bright or vivid, but that's what was there. The bright one, to me, looks almost as if the sun was shining down on that rock, which it certainly was not. Please excuse the fact that the pictures are not identically framed... didn't have a tripod. Suffice it to say, the K200D takes very realistic looking pictures without tweaking it. That's my take on it anyways. The brighter picture is better exposed from an EV standpoint, but I don't think it looks better than the bottom one. if you like the darker photo, then that's the better picture for you. however i downloaded both photos to check the histograms and the second histogram is underexposed meaning you're losing a tonne of shadow detail. if it were me, i'd rather take the better exposed photo then make it darker in PP. Originally posted by Marc Sabatella There is no underexposure if you understand how to use a DSLR metering system. Point at a 18% gray target and you get a picture with 12-13% reflectance, just like the ISO standards say you should. If you understand this, and how to use the camera's controls to alter the default exposure and why and when this would ne necessary, you can get the exposure you want, every time, without fail. so you're saying every camera can meter a grey card on spot meter perfectly. great, but it's not practical to use a grey card most of the time. in the end it's about learning to use the camera to remember when it over / under exposes Originally posted by hotrod I asked that question because i have a canon XTI which of course has underexposure problem and it's realy annoying. At the canon forums everybody says it's user error and not the camera, which of course everybody knows it´s a camera problem . You guys admit that it does subexpose which i think is not a problem but that pentax likes it that way. Getting rid of my canon stuff by the start of next year to get the k200d or the k20d and a good da*16-50 lens. it is my understanding the underexposure is done to protect the highlights --- on a side but related note, if you shoot raw, the best way is to expose using the Expose Right method. the camera is more sensitive to brighter exposures and therefore expose your histogram all the way to the right but not touching. then when you decrease the exposure in PP, you don't more detail and less noise. sometimes this has involved me going to +2 EV. again this takes practice to get right

10-04-2008, 09:28 AM	#26
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	Originally posted by k100d it is my understanding the underexposure is done to protect the highlights --- on a side but related note, if you shoot raw, the best way is to expose using the Expose Right method. the camera is more sensitive to brighter exposures and therefore expose your histogram all the way to the right but not touching. then when you decrease the exposure in PP, you don't more detail and less noise. sometimes this has involved me going to +2 EV. again this takes practice to get right

10-04-2008, 10:14 AM	#27
hotrod New Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Mar del Plata, Argentina Posts: 24	Originally posted by Clicker It's my understanding all digital cameras default to "under-exposure", in any auto/preset mode. Canon XTI also underexposes in manual mode.

10-04-2008, 10:34 AM	#28
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	My wife shoots a Nikon D40 and my Daughter shoots a Nikon D200 and D300 and they under expose as well..

10-04-2008, 02:17 PM	#30
k100d Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,911	Originally posted by FHPhotographer I'm interested if there is enough "extra" in the K200 to justify a move up from the K100 other than a 40% larger sensor that has denser photosites? I've compared them online, but I am curious how folks who have used them both say the K200 feels compared to the K100 and how it affects picture taking, FHPhotographer read khardur's review https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/22916-k200d-review.html