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View Poll Results: Make your Choice and Indicate your Identitiy!
Concentrate to invest further into the Pentax APS-C DSLR system 14057.85%
Plan to Switch, for a system with Full Frame option 208.26%
Do Nothing, Still Wait and See if Thing will be Changed later 6024.79%
I am an Old Film SLR Pentaxian 5924.38%
I am a New Pentax DSLR Pentaxian 8635.54%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 242. You may not vote on this poll

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10-03-2008, 04:52 PM   #46
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Haven't used Pentax SLRs before digital, and I'm definitely planning to continue to invest in the current system.

In fact, I thing the poll options aren't broad enough. For example, I chose
"Concentrate to invest further into the Pentax APS-C DSLR system"

but I would have much rather had an option like:

"The confirmation of no FF hasn't changed my buying habits"

10-03-2008, 05:33 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cambo Quote
maybe they are again. Or maybe the 645D IS the full frame camera. Who knows.

Initially, in my switch to digital, I missed my wide angles, but that has now been addressed, so I don't see any problem with APS-C continuing, especially since it keeps the size of everything down. Imagine the size of a 12-14 f4 zoom at full frame...yikes. The 14mm 2.8 would be enormous (it's already pretty big). I have lots of FA* glass not being utilized to its full extent, but so what.

From a Pentax perspective, I would rather have them address the more serious issues of:

1) lousy dynamic range still (in all digital cameras)
2) purple fringing (couldn't the micro-lenses handle this, or in-camera software?).
3) slow shutter sync
4) AF performance
5) Buffer speed
6) no fixed focal lenses from 100-200 (except for macro).
7) No big glass
8) better textural resolution as Pål has pointed out

With RAM memory now at $29.00 Cdn for 8 gigs retail, I don't see why buffer performance is such an issue, unless its related to the relatively low voltage available in cameras.

Anyway, generally pleased with the way Pentax is going, some nice new lenses and features on their cameras, but I, like many many others, just WISH THAT THEY WOULD BRING OUT A *** ****** PRO DSLR CAMERA THAT WE HAVE BEEN WAITING ON FOR 12 OR MORE ******* YEARS! WE KNOW THEY'VE GOT THEM; THEY'VE BEEN SPOTTED IN THE WILD - BRING THE **** THING TO MARKET FOR ***** SAKE! WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF? SUCCESS?

Pentax, I'm sure, suffers from depression and low corporate self-esteem - its like they have late-onset adult corporate zits or something.

your title they've fibbed before is part of the problem of why it keeps coming up, every couple of months we get different statements. much like the people desperately waiting for a 645d, prototype after prototype, now it will be produced with the best sensor available at the time, so looks like being redeveloped again.

your points 1,2 & 8 are why I'm looking at FF (personally I dont care what size it is if it can address these issues)

funny that so many people who dont care, actually care enough to post that they dont care, much like many of the threads where there is more "apsc zealots" people posting than "ff zealots". like I tell my kids it takes 2 to argue

I dont think anyone is asking them to stop apsc, it would be nice to have ff option as well, even with the limited lens line up (which of course comes down to manufacturing capacity but then they are still looking at introducing dual system with 645d). Personally it would be nice to have the pentax equivalent of a900 as well as k20d, different tools for different jobs but all one system.
10-03-2008, 05:49 PM   #48
Damn Brit

I'm sticking with Pentax for a while at least. I'm hoping Pentax are going to start making sports cars with headlights that can take every lens ever made with free adaptor for M42 mount.
Going for a drive in the country, use a 12-24 for seeing those landscapes at night. No road lights, simple, DA 300 so you can see way ahead. Not sure, don't worry, the 18-250 will be sufficient for most situations.

Last edited by Damn Brit; 10-06-2008 at 06:00 PM.
10-03-2008, 06:02 PM   #49
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Well, at this stage of devolopement the noise is the only technical issue. This limits the maxium ISO that is usable. I think resolution and dynamic range are close. From a pracical stand point the 4/3rds format doesn't lend itself to older film lenses in the wide angle area as well. I would like to have a E series body to experiment with through.


QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
what is so different between

1) FF vs APS-C


2) APS-C vs 4/3


10-03-2008, 06:48 PM   #50
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The introduction of the K-M (K2000) is a good move to gain market share with the stepping up group, but where do the rest of the "mid range" users go? If you have a K10, K200, K20 what do you have to aspire to? Yes all of those models make great images but what if you want or need more of something A/F speed, FPS, etc. what do you do now, unload your Pentax gear because there is no upgrade path and switch brands? I don't know if full frame is the answer but there needs to be something at the higher level (pro) to reach for. Put a fair price on it and people will buy it if it suits their needs. I have placed an order for a K2000 for my wife so I can get my K10 back however I would like to upgrade myself to something that more suits my needs (more FPS) (not video clips) I have a great camera for that but there is nothing in the pentax line to strive for. NO I am not thinking about switching brands just would like a little more offered and if it is reasonably priced I'd be in.

OBTW I would like most appreciate some LONG FAST GLASS, Hoya (Tokina/Pentax) can do it just make it happen, PLEASE.

Last edited by sluggo913; 10-03-2008 at 06:56 PM. Reason: Missed something
10-03-2008, 07:26 PM   #51
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I really like my K10D. I liked it when I bought it and it works as good now as it did then. While there is some degree of frustration associated with the APS-C sensor, I am not ready to chuck what I have and plunk down several thousand dollars on a new FF system.

My feeling is that I will probably shoot with the K10D until it breaks. At that time I will evaluate what is available. With any luck FF will be a mature technology by then and Pentax will be on the bandwagon. If not, I may look at a different brand as a replacement. In the mean time, I don't anticipate spending any money on dedicated APS-C lenses. I still shoot 35mm film on a K-mount body and can't see buying glass that is digital APS-C specific.


BTW...I played a little bit today with a D90 body. It was a little small for my big hands, but aside from that my impression was that the build is inferior to my K10D.
10-03-2008, 08:05 PM   #52
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It's funny, no one has ever complained about Canon's absence from the medium format and large format film markets, or Nikon's absence from medium format film cameras (they make nice LF lenses at least).
The DX sensor is just another format.
It has some advantages, such as with telephoto lenses, and in camera image stabilization, it has some disadvantages, such as wide angle lenses.

Why do people not realize that to get a 24x36mm sensor, they need a larger image circle than what a typical 35mm lens gives if they want in camera image stabilization?
It's a compromise, and personally, I'll take in camera IS over a full frame sensor any day. IS has real, honest to gracious advantages in more situations than an FF sensor has.

I'm just not seeing what the deal is.

I think Pentax does need to decide where they want to be in ten years though. Very soon, they are going to have to decide if they are going to be a mass market camera company, and try to take low end share away from C&N, or are they going to try to be a lower volume niche market company selling high quality equipment to discerning buyers.
The lens line they are building is a great start. No one but Pentax is making lenses with the qualities of the Limited right now.
Well, perhaps Leica and some of the Cosina stuff, but guess what? They have both positioned themselves in the high quality niche market.

I think Pentax would do better with a high quality, compact digital SLR, something along the size lines of the istD or new KM, but with mid range or better build and performance than they would do by splitting their user base into haves and have nots by making a FF camera.

If they go FF, they have to decide if they are going to keep the DX line, and keep making DX lenses, or if they are going to orphan the present user base by dropping the format.

The latter puts them in the unenviable position of being comparable to Canon, circa the mid 1980s, when they pretty much screwed their entire user base.

Nope, give me a DX sensor'ed Pentax with the build and performance of a D300, in a package the size of an istD or K-m, and I'll be a very happy user.

And if they see the need to go big or go home, make the camera a 645 lens mount, and keep in body IS with a somewhat smaller than 645 sensor.

Last edited by Wheatfield; 10-03-2008 at 09:57 PM. Reason: spelling/grammer
10-03-2008, 08:11 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
this is typical of ricehigh: someone who only cares about cameras and the technology, not actually taking photos.

I wont vote, but for the record, I plan on doing nothing... except to continue to use my chosen equipment.
Ditto. And there was no choice for "get over it".

10-03-2008, 08:13 PM   #54
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I picked all 5 choices. Didn't even read them and don't give a flying. After just getting back some 20x24 prints from my K10D (that look awesome). FF does nothing for me.

Damn, I promised to ignore RH's threads.
10-03-2008, 09:52 PM   #55
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Rice High - - No choice for medium format?

APS-C is more than sufficient for most work.

If you really need to make a big jump in image or competing for commercial work, then choosing a FF medium format makes more sense than switching to FF 36x24.

I'm keeping my APS-C Pentax even after my medium format comes in. I like what I gain on the telephoto end when I'm outside.
10-04-2008, 09:09 AM   #56
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I have used Pentax cameras since my last Canon...AE-1P. I have been waiting for FF digi Pentax some time now. Surely I'm dissaponting because there won't be any FF Pentax in near future. I have not yet made any decision (no hurry), but there are two options:

* I will change the camera brand and sell all my Pentax stuff.
* I will accept the idea to use APS-C sensor camera in the future too (= stay in Pentax).
If this will be it then I'll change my system smaller and lighter than it's today.
Mainly selling almost all of my present lenses and buying some Limited lenses instead.
Even if I like a lot some of my Pentax lenses.

Sigma EX 14mm f2,8
Pentax FA* 24mm f2,0
Pentax FA* 28-70mm f2,8
Pentax FA* 85mm f1,4
Pentax FA* 200mm f2,8
Pentax F* 300mm f4,5
Tamron SP 300mm f2,8 (360B)
Tamron adaptall II PKA
Pentax F 1,7X AF-TC
Pentax AF 360FGZ
Pentax K10D Grand Prix

Last edited by Harmonica; 10-04-2008 at 12:13 PM.
10-04-2008, 11:08 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by augustmoon Quote
Rice High - - No choice for medium format?

APS-C is more than sufficient for most work.

If you really need to make a big jump in image or competing for commercial work, then choosing a FF medium format makes more sense than switching to FF 36x24.

I'm keeping my APS-C Pentax even after my medium format comes in. I like what I gain on the telephoto end when I'm outside.
Having been with Pentax since the Spotomatic was tops, I'm not likely to change now.

As for the FF, it seems to just add unnecessary bulk to the equipment. I see no reason to believe that the photo quality of photos done in the 'half frame' mode reach the limits of optical quality, and if that's possible, and we may be there already, (or close), larger sensors are truely just baggage.
10-04-2008, 11:57 AM   #58
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I already have a full frame - and it's a Pentax.

It's called ME Super.
10-05-2008, 08:59 AM   #59
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Full Film?

QuoteOriginally posted by Tom S. Quote
I already have a full frame - and it's a Pentax.

It's called ME Super.
Then, it is just called Full Film, not Full Frame! ;-D
10-05-2008, 04:30 PM   #60
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ONe of the most successful pros I know (an old neighbour how photographs and makes enough $$$ to buy a $2 million house and live quite well; he's worked for National Geo. amongst others) exclusively uses MF film for his landscape shots, his bread and butter. He takes maybe 300 shots per year!

how? Well, he pre-frames everything with a digital camera first (a Nikon D50 now) and when it's dialled in, uses the "far superior" film for he real dynamic range and detail. He's an advocate of digital but it's only part of the picture for his client base. His overhead is low because digital is not there yet for the Q he needs.

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