[séamuis]

what is so different between

1) FF vs APS-C

and

2) APS-C vs 4/3

?

a proprietary lens mount?

[Marc Sabatella]

The only Pentax interchangeable-lens cameras I have ever used were APS-C. I have no prior investment in K-mount FF equipment and no particular interest in ever using a film camera again. As such, I couldn't care less what some people a century or so ago decided would be a convenient size to make a rectangle of emulsion-covered cellulose. I care about what matters in the cameras I intend to use today and tomorrow.

To that end, the ideal sensor size is provides a good balance between being big enough for good IQ but not so big that it the camera becomes overly bulky or expensive. I'm also concerned with having a sensor size for which the lenses that provide the angles of view I am most interested in can be be made manageable in terms of size, weight, quality, and expense.

I'm not going to claim APS-C is *perfect* here - although I suspect with a smaller registration distance, it would be a lot closer, as wide angle lenses could be made more optimally. But I do think APS-C nails the IQ versus camera size / expense balance pretty well (better IQ than 4/3, better ergonomics than "FF"), and I greatly appreciate how much smaller telephoto lenses can be made for APS-C than FF for the same angle of view. And if Pentax can make a a 15mm lens as small as the one previewed at Photokina, then I can't see any basis for complaining about any loss at the wide end.

So, even if we were starting with a clean slate, I'm not sure there would be much room for improvement over APS-C as the One True Sensor Format. And of course, we're not starting with a clean slate - Pentax DSLR users have a considerable investment in APS-C already. So replacing APS-C is not an option. The only question is whether it makes sense for a company as small as Pentax to have to develop two parallel lines to satisfy the tiny percentage of customers who might want to buy into the FF line. And I think the answering is a definite "no" - it would be a colossal waste of resources and it would lead to compromises in lens design (either by forcing duplication of lenses, or by forcing poor choices in focal length to try to satisfy both, ot by forcing APS-C users to deal with the increased size/weight needed to support FF).

So bottom line: I have no use for FF, and hope Pentax never makes the mistake of developing a FF line, unless the realities of the world change significantly in the future such that it wouldn't be financially disastrous for them to do so. Eg, if demand for larger more expensive FF cameras goes up, and there becomes reason to think that a significant number of the (mostly pro) users demanding it would ever considering buy a non-Canikon.

[deejjjaaaa]

And if Pentax can make a a 15mm lens as small as the one previewed at Photokina, then I can't see any basis for complaining about any loss at the wide end.

old 15mm was FF - now make 10mm crop

[deejjjaaaa]

The only Pentax interchangeable-lens cameras I have ever used were APS-C. I have no prior investment in K-mount FF equipment

and I have only one cropped lens - which I will be more than happy to sell if <= $2K Pentax FF will be available

[Douglas_of_Sweden]

OK, this is just one full frame thread too much.
I'm asking for a break, a week, a month, whatever without this ranting about full frame, when we can discuss photo, current and old existing equipment, how to use it, but not fight about fantasy cameras that may or may never exist.
I've noticed the **** word is censored by the forum server/software.
Adam, please, can you not do the same for full frame or FF!?
Then everytime someone writes something like: "Without FF Pentax will die!" we will only see on the screen "Without ** Pentax will die!"

Please! Just for a period so we all can go back talking about something more interesting.

[ftpaddict]

What now? I'll be the one taking pictures with my K100D; thank you very much.

[jeffkrol]

As we all learnt from the recent Pentax interview at Photokina, there will be no Full Frame Pentax DSLR as told. But Pentax also stated their determination in solely building the APS-C DSLR system from now on (but not following the FF market trend and direction created and led by Canon, Nikon and Sony).

As an old film Pentax SLR or new Pentax DSLR user, what do you think now and what will you do then?

N.B. When completing the Poll, please enter two to three entries: 1. On your choice amongst the 3 possible things for what would you think and do; 2. Indicate whether you are a new (Pentax DSLR) or an old (Pentax film SLR) user (enter both if you're both just in case) - Thus a maximum of 3 multiple entries per user.

Save up for a 645D, and when that doesn't appear, take the money and buy one of their wonderful APS-C cameras......

[jeffkrol]

There's no option for "I don't care about this at the moment!"

I personally am not sure about investing in APS-C glass at the moment, simply because of its wildly inconsistent optical results on a film body. But on the subject of a FF DSLR, I simply don't care. If I could easily afford one, maybe I would be slightly more interested, but as I can't (and am very happy with what I have already) then I will not vote on this.

Agreed, skewed answers as usual for these "unscientific" and generally useless poles............

[Gooshin]

if anyone else posted this topic other than RH i'm quite certain it would have yielded a far more intresting discussion.

before, everyone just talked about the what iffs

now that we know, the question is what now, and that question, ladies and gentlemen, has not been asked before.

but it seems everyone here wants their monthly RH bashing fix, so, as you were.....

[wildman]

"No Pentax Full Frame DSLR, What to Do Now Then?"

Continue doing what I have been doing for the last 40 years - getting out and taking pictures...

[jeffkrol]

if anyone else posted this topic other than RH i'm quite certain it would have yielded a far more intresting discussion.

before, everyone just talked about the what iffs

now that we know, the question is what now, and that question, ladies and gentlemen, has not been asked before.

but it seems everyone here wants their monthly RH bashing fix, so, as you were.....

Nope, just encourages me to say what I'm thinking........... no more, no less.
Besides you have to at least ponder the fact that regardless of the results they will probably be "spun" to the op's agenda (put your own theory here)......... guess I'm just cynical that way...

[ChrisA]

but it seems everyone here wants their monthly RH bashing fix, so, as you were.....

Well, as one who has hitherto defended RH, I think in this case it's richly deserved.

I would have been delighted if, instead of the K-m, there had been a K30D, with improved AF, low-noise high ISO, and, say, 5fps to suit those that can't press the button at the right time.

However, what I want is not the same as what the Pentax business needs.

The Pentax position, not unreasonably, is that entry-level is where the money is, so that's where they're concentrating their efforts. They are a business, after all, not a charity. And like it or not, this forum is not representative of the camera-buying public at large.

Pentax is not currently addressing the needs of the 1% or so that want a very high end camera. The 1% need to get over it, or go somewhere else.

With this in mind, the agenda in that blog is blatantly obvious. Every statement from Pentax gets the standard RH treatment - re-spin it in the context of the ongoing vendetta, that seeks to criticise the brand for addressing the needs of the 99% rather than the 1%.

It is very likely that the APS-C camera that comes out mid 2009 will have improved AF. In the meantime, the K20D is a superb compromise between cost and performance. Not to acknowledge this is evidence of intellectual bankruptcy.

[Douglas_of_Sweden]

With this in mind, the agenda in that blog is blatantly obvious. Every statement from Pentax gets the standard RH treatment - re-spin it in the context of the ongoing vendetta, that seeks to criticise the brand for addressing the needs of the 99% rather than the 1%.

Well, RH just happened to admit on a parallel thread that his more worthy commitment than just bashing Pentax is "To fight for the extinction of Pentax!". So things are beginning to make sense now, right?

To fight for the extinction of Pentax!


Is that "worth" now? ;-)

[drewdlephone]

Just to expand on this issue (and I like where this is going by the way) the numbers speak for themselves. 5% of you are going to switch to a FF system, 22% are going to wait and see, and 68% could care less and are going to continue investing in Pentax's current system.

That says it all to me. If you're going to switch, get on with it and stop trying to cause upheaval and argument on an otherwise peaceful forum.

[offertonhatter]

Just to expand on this issue (and I like where this is going by the way) the numbers speak for themselves. 5% of you are going to switch to a FF system, 22% are going to wait and see, and 68% could care less and are going to continue investing in Pentax's current system.

That says it all to me. If you're going to switch, get on with it and stop trying to cause upheaval and argument on an otherwise peaceful forum.

Totally agree, RH just wants attention, and the death of the mighty Pentax.

Me? I am more than happy to continue with my (not inconsiderable investment) of Pentax. Why? because I love the way they handle, the colours, the build, the reasonable price and of course the mighty fine optics you don't have to pay the earth for (even the Limiteds).
I would love Pentax to bring out a FF camera, with the excellent colour rendition and IQ of the APS-C, but if they dont, then so be it. Benjikan seems to get superb images from his K20D, which of course is NOT a Canon or Nikon.
If it comes a point that I need FF, and Pentax are not forthcoming, then I would consider a rival brand, but, and this is a but, I would continue to use and invest in Pentax, as they are, in my opinion, still the best APS-C cameras that you can buy.