[photoptimist]

Cameras have changed from professional precision devices built to last for decades (with a price to match) to consumer devices meant to be replaced every few years (with a price to match).

In any industry driven by rapid technological change, the company that rushes their product to market gets to put out a product that has a new higher-spec components and a lower-cost than the company that takes their time to carefully design and test everything. Moreover, in an industry with rapid technological change, most people upgrade every few years anyway so the longevity of the product is not important to them.

When it comes to high-tech products, quality is punished in the market because it takes too long and costs too much.

[stevebrot]

reductio ad absurdem? or simply mischaracterization of the majority of the complaints?

Accurate characterization of several persistent and reliable complainants.


Steve

[monochrome]

But the only parts available today are the part known to fail - the "good" part is no longer available from the part supplier - so someone would be doing the same task every few years.

I believe the best we could have hoped for from Ricoh was a discount on a future camera - but that is pushing things.

For heaven’s sake. We’re not talking about an airplane. It’s a mid-range digital camera developed and sold by a company that markets as a price-for-features competitor. We know they don’t include the costs of advertising, inventory, parts, repairs, customer service, B&M support, cutting edge tech, etc. Post-warranty support is just another thing they don’t price into the cameras.

Having made the value choice, don’t expect them to provide something you didn’t pay for.

[West Penn]

The shutter count on my K-50 today is 4023. The camera suffers from aperture block failure. I've been using it lately with lenses with an aperture ring and the green button, so its not a total loss, but it is kind of a pain. I'm not sure what the shutter count was when the failure occurred.

My opinion on this subject is that Pentax's response to this problem, a poor quality solenoid, that affects five camera models at least has been a big zero. This is clearly a manufacturing defect that the company should have done something about. I've got a K-3II, so the K-50 isn't my only camera, but I sure am hesitant about putting more money into Pentax.

[normhead]

For heaven’s sake. We’re not talking about an airplane. It’s a mid-range digital camera developed and sold by a company that markets as a price for features competitor. We know they don’t charge for advertising, inventory, parts, repairs, customer service, B&M support, cutting edge tech, etc. Post-warranty support is another thing they don’t Price into the cameras.

Having made the value choice, don’t expect them to provide something you didn’t pay for.

Pentax will not be making anymore lower cost stripped down systems. After the K-70, I don't know where the K-xx series guys are going. For sure, if they are staying with Pentax they'll be paying more.

[stevebrot]

I'm not sure what the shutter count was when the failure occurred.

3502

It is a shame that you decided not take advantage of your extended warranty in 2017 when the problem first cropped up after 2 1/2 years of ownership. The last word posted here was that you were sending it in.

Yet Another Dark K-50, But Burst/NiMh Corrected Problem - PentaxForums.com

BTW...the only reason why I looked up the post was because of the very low current shutter count on the camera and I was curious as to when in the K-30/K-50 epic your event occurred. It looks like it was only seeing about 1500 shots per year before it went bad. One of the truly unfortunate parts about the aperture control failure on the K-30/K-50 was that it was age, not usage related. The second was that many bought their K-50 believing that the K-30 problem had been remedied.* So many of the reports here came from people who almost never used their cameras.


Steve

* I helped a close friend with her K-50 purchase January, 2014, thinking that the problem had been addressed only to have it fail two weeks out of warranty a year later (January 2015). Ricoh was good enough to honor the warranty for repair and the fix is still good four years later.

[pentaxfall]

Nearly all manufacturers use sampling methods for Quality Control.

The original Canon 5D has mirror separation problems.

I am surprised that camera manufacturer's do just sampling test. Every unit of Xbox and Play Station undergoes set of automated tests. That is followed by few manual tests. Unit has to pass these tests before going to customer. There are set of extreme tests and they are done only on random samples. They do extensive investigation to find root cause of failed units.


Camera body is pricier than game consoles so every unit should under go at least basic tests. If one goes by the price difference between OEM lens and 3rd party lens, there is decent margin too.

DSLR has mechanical parts, may be that is what stops from having automated tests. MILC should be more test friendly.

[reh321]

Unless we were there in the room, we likely will never know what options were considered, and what they could have done. If Pentax R&D had been put off while the issue was adequately addressed to keep forum members happy, would that have been OK? Or if the cost of the imagined "perfect " repair was paid for in part by other systems putting prices up, would that have been OK?

I personally expect heavy users should buy more expensive systems. Systems like the K-30 and K-50 I would suggest are for lighter users. It's sad the cameras failed, but there's a bigger picture here. More durable options were available and the projected shutter counts were known. ( the published shutter count was less than expected, but still, there were more durable options available for those concerned about durability.) Did people really expect K-5 or K-3 durability for K-30, K-50 prices? For a lot of folks 5000 shutter actuations a year is a lot of actuations, and the cameras should last 10 years at that rate. We aren't talking about a flagship models here.

Yes, my count is closer to 1000 actuations a year. Aperture control on my K-30 was gone after 42 months - 3-1/2 years - when the total shutter count was around 4000. This failure seemed to be more related to calendar days than to shutter count, so a heavier user would get better use than someone like me would. Much of the negative talk is a result of someone taking a little used K-50 off the shelf for a special moment and having the failure happen then ..... 'rest' seems to be deadly for this mechanism.

I'm reading all these complaints, and what I end up thinking is "I don't know enough." And a suspicion that Pentax knows more than anyone here about what was possible and what wasn't. And the K-P average selling price is over $1000 as opposed to $620 for a K-30. I assume that means they've added value to make sure a K-30 type situation doesn't happen again, but now a lot of those K-30 customers will find the camera too expensive.

In any case, i suspect after the K-xx series seems to have ended with the K-70, my suspicion is that Pentax will never agin try to put their best image producing tech into lower priced bodies. They may abandon lower priced bodies all together, and if they don't, they'll go the route everyone else does. Inferior sensor and inferior imaging tech, a whole cheaply designed system with durable 2 or 3 fps shutter. Not the best tech they have in a cheaper package for low volume users.

So I suspect the aperture block failure did change Pentax, just not in the way everyone thinks. Clearly, if you take a good solid system and then try and cheap it down for the masses, there are a lot of things that could go wrong. That strategy failed, brought them a lot of bad press, and the K-P costs almost as much as my K-3 did. Hopefully it's been a learning experience for everyone.

You look at the K-70 and Pentax tried to bring their most current tech including custom chips (the accelerator chip, the same one used on the K-1ii) in an $800 body. I doubt any camera company will ever try that again. And while from a PR standpoint, that may have been failure, and for a lot of users who should have gone flagship and didn't it was a bummer, it's the low volume 2,000 shot a year guys who will miss out. Snatch up those K-70s while you can dudes. You've got a K-1 quality camera at a K-30 type price, if you're a low shutter actuation shooter. Looking at the numbers, If my wife had bought a K-30 instead of her K-5 she'd certainly have been on her second camera, and buying the cheaper camera wouldn't have saved her a cent, and probably would have cost her money. But those K-xx series camera are still great image quality at an affordable price, even if they won't give you as many shutter actuations as a flagship model. Those opportunities will be thing of the past.

I don't disagree with you at all. Personally, I think Pentax would be better off making the KP their "Intro" line; current price for it isn't much higher than current price of the K-70, and it has the same aperture control as the K-7/5/3 family does.

[reh321]

I am surprised that camera manufacturer's do just sampling test. Every unit of Xbox and Play Station undergoes set of automated tests. That is followed by few manual tests. Unit has to pass these tests before going to customer. There are set of extreme tests and they are done only on random samples. They do extensive investigation to find root cause of failed units.

Camera body is pricier than game consoles so every unit should under go at least basic tests. If one goes by the price difference between OEM lens and 3rd party lens, there is decent margin too.

DSLR has mechanical parts, may be that is what stops from having automated tests. MILC should be more test friendly.

You do realize that this has nothing to do with the K-30/50 issue?? I have never heard of a K-30 or 50 that was DOA; if it were, there would be no problem with replacing it. The problem with these particular cameras was that the problem developed over time. About the time the warranty expired, it would fail on the first shot of the day, then the first two shots, etc. If a person was lucky, used it for a few days and then put it on the shelf for six months, it might fail towards the end of the warranty period, because rest is more deadly than work for it. I purchased mine used-like-new from KEH - it had a shutter count of 3 when I got it - used it with AA-batteries - which was supposed to prolong its useful life - and had to switch to aperture-ring lenses after 42 months.

[thazooo]

But the only parts available today are the part known to fail - the "good" part is no longer available from the part supplier - so someone would be doing the same task every few years.

I believe the best we could have hoped for from Ricoh was a discount on a future camera - but that is pushing things.

Interesting to know that. It's all over for me, sold my failed K50 and after getting the KP, I sold my KS2 also. I use my *ist D as a backup to the KP. 14 Y.O. and still clicking. And because of the SDM failures my KP is sporting a current Sigma 17-50 f2.8 .

[reh321]

My opinion on this subject is that Pentax's response to this problem, a poor quality solenoid, that affects five camera models at least has been a big zero. This is clearly a manufacturing defect that the company should have done something about. I've got a K-3II, so the K-50 isn't my only camera, but I sure am hesitant about putting more money into Pentax.

As far as Pentax knew, this was the same solenoid they had been using for thirty years. Apparently it has the same part number from the same supplier as the solenoid in the Super Program I purchased in 1983 {and which still works}. According to @photogem; who has disassembled many of these cameras, the supplier moved production from Japan to China and made a change in materials used without changing part number. As I said above, I'm not sure whether the supplier notified Pentax of these changes, but neither company changed part number, so apparently neither company anticipated the problems that would occur after several years of use.

[reh321]

Interesting to know that. It's all over for me, sold my failed K50 and after getting the KP, I sold my KS2 also. I use my *ist D as a backup to the KP. 14 Y.O. and still clicking. And because of the SDM failures my KP is sporting a current Sigma 17-50 f2.8 .

I use my K-30 with aperture ring lenses as backup to the KP I purchased on Black Friday. My 30+ year old Super Program is still clicking, but I don't use it much because my wife comments every time I purchase film.

[clackers]

Problem with the new Boeing "max" airplanes seems to have been a failure at the System Engineering stage - a single point of failure could bring down the craft. The new version duplicates the critical part, and notifies the crew if sensors differ, so they can turn off the automatic system and return to the airport on manual.

Worse. The software only uses one Angle of Attack sensor unless you paid Boeing extra money to use and compare data with the second (on the other side of the plane).

[monochrome]

3502

Steve

* I helped a close friend with her K-50 purchase January, 2014, thinking that the problem had been addressed only to have it fail two weeks out of warranty a year later (January 2015). Ricoh was good enough to honor the warranty for repair and the fix is still good four years later.

So - Pentax isn’t complete jerks after all . . .

[reh321]

Worse. The software only uses one Angle of Attack sensor unless you paid Boeing extra money to use and compare data with the second (on the other side of the plane).

Part of the "fix" is to provide this capability at no charge.