How red is your red ?

lotech · 05-07-2019, 02:55 AM

I took some shots of flowers with the Jupiter 37A, they are not very sharp due to the wind and low light, but I always find that the red is over saturated on my K3 where other colors are quite natural, is this normal ? I got more natural red with cell phone.

Last edited by lotech; 10-24-2019 at 10:22 PM.

**pepperberry farm** · 05-07-2019, 03:02 AM - **2 Likes**

depends upon the light and the shade of red - and the lens...

broad daylight, lipstick red, FA43

some reds hover at the edge of pink/magenta and those always seem to oversaturate for me...

pschlute · 05-07-2019, 03:15 AM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by lotech

I took some shots of flowers with the Jupiter 37A, they are not very sharp due to the wind and low light, but I always find that the red is over saturated on my K3 where other colors are quite natural, is this normal ? I got more natural red with cell phone

Checking the histogram of the second (very red) picture shows the red channel severely clipped. Set your histogram display on the camera to show RGB channels not luminance when photographing rich colours like this. Then you can ensure they are not clipped.

just reducing the brightness of the reds brings out a little more detail in the flower as below

**ThorSanchez** · 05-07-2019, 04:37 AM

Sometimes my reds are too red, but I think it's dependent on your RAW converter. Or maybe you can compensate for it through your RAW converter. See this post, and this one. Things were fine with my K-3 when using Lightroom, but I had problems when I was transitioning to RawTherapee. Now that I have a lot more experience with RT it's not a problem, I think I have a set of pp3 files (i.e. basically context-dependent presets for things like ISO and lens) that the reds look fine with.

For a while I would explicitly back off the reds in some files, but I haven't had to do that in quite a while. I think it's just a better combination of lens profiles, camera profiles, and pp3 files.

biz-engineer · 05-07-2019, 05:37 AM

Reds are rather limited by sRGB, only a little better with Adobe RGB.

**rogerstg** · 05-07-2019, 07:12 AM

Originally posted by lotech

I always find that the red is over saturated on my K3

What do the unprocessed raw files look like? I had similar results with my KP with custom image on bright. JPEG reds were blown out, but the unprocessed raw was fine.

sculptor666 · 05-07-2019, 08:03 AM - **2 Likes**

i miss ccd colors

stevebrot · 05-07-2019, 10:45 AM - **3 Likes**

Both saturated red and saturated yellow are problem colors for digital capture in that both clip easily. The key to dealing with it is to avoid overexposure when either are present. The histogram will provide clues. Working from RAW may also provide some additional flexibility in post processing.

Originally posted by sculptor666

i miss ccd colors

This was a problem on my previous K10D too. The nice thing is that recent model bodies with RGB meter arrays have meter firmware to anticipate individual channel clipping and will scale the exposure down when detected.

Steve

**mikesbike** · 05-07-2019, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by rogerstg

What do the unprocessed raw files look like? I had similar results with my KP with custom image on bright. JPEG reds were blown out, but the unprocessed raw was fine.

Not hard to remedy. Either switch to "Natural" which has a different color palette, or go into the "Bright" settings and reduce saturation a little.

**rogerstg** · 05-07-2019, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by mikesbike

Not hard to remedy. Either switch to "Natural" which has a different color palette, or go into the "Bright" settings and reduce saturation a little.

Much easier than that. Just shoot raw and run it through DCU to choose the camera settings that would have worked best. It's hard to know what the prob might be before the shot, and if shooting jpeg, it's too late after.

It's academic though since we don't know if that's the OP's problem.

**Bob 256** · 05-07-2019, 02:01 PM

One of the key factors is the display you're looking at the shots on. Some monitors are better than others so you might take those photos with a grain of salt until you see the images on a calibrated wide gamut monitor. The LCD screen of your camera is a poor way to judge colors in most cases. Ambient lighting can also affect how colors appear so viewing a monitor in a brightly lighted room can prove detrimental to color quality.

Just something to keep in mind.

stevebrot · 05-07-2019, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by rogerstg

Much easier than that. Just shoot raw and run it through DCU to choose the camera settings that would have worked best. It's hard to know what the prob might be before the shot, and if shooting jpeg, it's too late after.

It's academic though since we don't know if that's the OP's problem.

Neither will help if the red channel is truly clipped. Below is the sole frame of a bracketed series where the yellows could be salvaged. The other frames were irretrievably red-clipped for the yellow flowers in the RAW*. This one was not.

Steve

* True yellow is done with an equal combination of red and green with zero blue (FFFF00).

lotech · 05-07-2019, 05:34 PM

How to adjust color on the K3 I rarely touch that part ? and I just started to learn RawTheapee, thanks.

Originally posted by pschlute

Checking the histogram of the second (very red) picture shows the red channel severely clipped. Set your histogram display on the camera to show RGB channels not luminance when photographing rich colours like this. Then you can ensure they are not clipped.

just reducing the brightness of the reds brings out a little more detail in the flower as below

---------- Post added 05-08-19 at 08:39 AM ----------

CCD color ? what does it look like ? I heard CCD was better than CMOS in color rendition and resolution but power hungry, I also want to see the Foveon sensor color some day !

Originally posted by sculptor666

i miss ccd colors

**mikesbike** · 05-07-2019, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by Bob 256

One of the key factors is the display you're looking at the shots on. Some monitors are better than others so you might take those photos with a grain of salt until you see the images on a calibrated wide gamut monitor. The LCD screen of your camera is a poor way to judge colors in most cases. Ambient lighting can also affect how colors appear so viewing a monitor in a brightly lighted room can prove detrimental to color quality.

Just something to keep in mind.

I agree with that, all right. There is very often quite a difference between viewing on screen and running a print from a high-quality printer, both in color reproduction and even in exposure properties.

**clackers** · 05-07-2019, 06:44 PM - **1 Like**

Lotech, the easiest thing is to underexpose to the point that even in the playback image in the LCD viewer you can still see detail in the yellows and reds.

In post processing the RAW you then lift the exposure in all the other areas, and then adjust all areas to balance nicely for the final image.

05-07-2019, 02:55 AM	#1
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312	How red is your red ? I took some shots of flowers with the Jupiter 37A, they are not very sharp due to the wind and low light, but I always find that the red is over saturated on my K3 where other colors are quite natural, is this normal ? I got more natural red with cell phone. Last edited by lotech; 10-24-2019 at 10:22 PM.

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05-07-2019, 03:02 AM - 2 Likes	#2
pepperberry farm amateur dirt farmer Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: probably out in a field somewhere... Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 41,679	depends upon the light and the shade of red - and the lens... broad daylight, lipstick red, FA43 some reds hover at the edge of pink/magenta and those always seem to oversaturate for me...

05-07-2019, 04:37 AM	#4
ThorSanchez Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,806	Sometimes my reds are too red, but I think it's dependent on your RAW converter. Or maybe you can compensate for it through your RAW converter. See this post, and this one. Things were fine with my K-3 when using Lightroom, but I had problems when I was transitioning to RawTherapee. Now that I have a lot more experience with RT it's not a problem, I think I have a set of pp3 files (i.e. basically context-dependent presets for things like ISO and lens) that the reds look fine with. For a while I would explicitly back off the reds in some files, but I haven't had to do that in quite a while. I think it's just a better combination of lens profiles, camera profiles, and pp3 files.

05-07-2019, 05:37 AM	#5
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Reds are rather limited by sRGB, only a little better with Adobe RGB.

05-07-2019, 07:12 AM	#6
rogerstg Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Rhode Island Photos: Albums Posts: 1,168	Originally posted by lotech I always find that the red is over saturated on my K3 What do the unprocessed raw files look like? I had similar results with my KP with custom image on bright. JPEG reds were blown out, but the unprocessed raw was fine.

05-07-2019, 08:03 AM - 2 Likes	#7
sculptor666 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: PA Photos: Gallery Posts: 675	i miss ccd colors

05-07-2019, 10:45 AM - 3 Likes	#8
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Both saturated red and saturated yellow are problem colors for digital capture in that both clip easily. The key to dealing with it is to avoid overexposure when either are present. The histogram will provide clues. Working from RAW may also provide some additional flexibility in post processing. Originally posted by sculptor666 i miss ccd colors This was a problem on my previous K10D too. The nice thing is that recent model bodies with RGB meter arrays have meter firmware to anticipate individual channel clipping and will scale the exposure down when detected. Steve

05-07-2019, 01:08 PM	#9
mikesbike Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 4,549	Originally posted by rogerstg What do the unprocessed raw files look like? I had similar results with my KP with custom image on bright. JPEG reds were blown out, but the unprocessed raw was fine. Not hard to remedy. Either switch to "Natural" which has a different color palette, or go into the "Bright" settings and reduce saturation a little.

05-07-2019, 01:45 PM	#10
rogerstg Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Rhode Island Photos: Albums Posts: 1,168	Originally posted by mikesbike Not hard to remedy. Either switch to "Natural" which has a different color palette, or go into the "Bright" settings and reduce saturation a little. Much easier than that. Just shoot raw and run it through DCU to choose the camera settings that would have worked best. It's hard to know what the prob might be before the shot, and if shooting jpeg, it's too late after. It's academic though since we don't know if that's the OP's problem.

05-07-2019, 02:01 PM	#11
Bob 256 Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Idaho Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	One of the key factors is the display you're looking at the shots on. Some monitors are better than others so you might take those photos with a grain of salt until you see the images on a calibrated wide gamut monitor. The LCD screen of your camera is a poor way to judge colors in most cases. Ambient lighting can also affect how colors appear so viewing a monitor in a brightly lighted room can prove detrimental to color quality. Just something to keep in mind.

05-07-2019, 03:04 PM	#12
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by rogerstg Much easier than that. Just shoot raw and run it through DCU to choose the camera settings that would have worked best. It's hard to know what the prob might be before the shot, and if shooting jpeg, it's too late after. It's academic though since we don't know if that's the OP's problem. Neither will help if the red channel is truly clipped. Below is the sole frame of a bracketed series where the yellows could be salvaged. The other frames were irretrievably red-clipped for the yellow flowers in the RAW. This one was not. Steve True yellow is done with an equal combination of red and green with zero blue (FFFF00).

05-07-2019, 05:34 PM	#13
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312 Original Poster	How to adjust color on the K3 I rarely touch that part ? and I just started to learn RawTheapee, thanks. Originally posted by pschlute Checking the histogram of the second (very red) picture shows the red channel severely clipped. Set your histogram display on the camera to show RGB channels not luminance when photographing rich colours like this. Then you can ensure they are not clipped. just reducing the brightness of the reds brings out a little more detail in the flower as below ---------- Post added 05-08-19 at 08:39 AM ---------- CCD color ? what does it look like ? I heard CCD was better than CMOS in color rendition and resolution but power hungry, I also want to see the Foveon sensor color some day ! Originally posted by sculptor666 i miss ccd colors

05-07-2019, 05:51 PM	#14
mikesbike Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 4,549	Originally posted by Bob 256 One of the key factors is the display you're looking at the shots on. Some monitors are better than others so you might take those photos with a grain of salt until you see the images on a calibrated wide gamut monitor. The LCD screen of your camera is a poor way to judge colors in most cases. Ambient lighting can also affect how colors appear so viewing a monitor in a brightly lighted room can prove detrimental to color quality. Just something to keep in mind. I agree with that, all right. There is very often quite a difference between viewing on screen and running a print from a high-quality printer, both in color reproduction and even in exposure properties.

05-07-2019, 06:44 PM - 1 Like	#15
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Lotech, the easiest thing is to underexpose to the point that even in the playback image in the LCD viewer you can still see detail in the yellows and reds. In post processing the RAW you then lift the exposure in all the other areas, and then adjust all areas to balance nicely for the final image.