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06-16-2019, 05:45 PM - 2 Likes   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by madison_wi_gal Quote
The GPS is the least important - in fact, I'd probably turn it off. I'm not ultra paranoid but I have no reason to have satellites know where I am.[COLOR="Silver"].
FWIW using the gps function doesn't "tell the satellites where you are". They aren't two-way and can only be used by you for determining where you are and can't report your location to anyone else, tho the coordinates will become part of your photos metadata if enabled.

06-16-2019, 05:48 PM - 1 Like   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
FWIW using the gps function doesn't "tell the satellites where you are". They aren't two-way and can only be used by you for determining where you are and can't report your location to anyone else, tho the coordinates will become part of your photos metadata if enabled.
Fair enough.
06-16-2019, 05:49 PM - 3 Likes   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
FWIW using the gps function doesn't "tell the satellites where you are". They aren't two-way and can only be used by you for determining where you are and can't report your location to anyone else, tho the coordinates will become part of your photos metadata if enabled.
I hate going on a hike passing a few ponds and lakes and not being able to tell where the images were taken. It's worse on a 16 day trip where you're on different lake every night, but you don't take pictures every night.

Last edited by normhead; 06-17-2019 at 06:12 PM.
06-16-2019, 06:03 PM - 2 Likes   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Roadboat24 Quote
I love it when some one comes off with this "It's Better" just cause it's full frame.

"Better" is a relative term. I happen to own a K1 and a K3 and K50 along with a Gopro, Fuji xp90, Kodak easyshare and a couple of video cameras..

Whats better, well it depends.
What am I shooting and what do I plan on doing with the shots.

Better, sure, when I'm standing in the surf up to my chest taking pictures of the waves, that full frame k1 isn't worth a damn.

Each has it's strengths and uses.
I love it when someone calls that poor old nag out of the barn.
And yes, full frame is better because it's full frame.
645 is better still, because it's 645.
This is a game where real estate matters.
Everything else is a compromise, not better.

06-16-2019, 06:15 PM - 1 Like   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I love it when someone calls that poor old nag out of the barn.
And yes, full frame is better because it's full frame.
645 is better still, because it's 645.
This is a game where real estate matters.
Everything else is a compromise, not better.
You really shouldn't skip the following two statements

QuoteOriginally posted by Roadboat24 Quote
Whats better, well it depends.

Each has it's strengths and uses.
In fact, "better" does depend on what you are doing.

In some situations, most photos of animals for example, pixel density is important, because a small pixel density will force you to use a much longer lens to put as many pixels on the subject. In most cases, this measure favors APS-C.

In all situations, age of sensor makes a big difference - continual progress means that a recent APS-C sensor is better than a FF in every case.

FF cameras tend to weigh more than APS-C cameras; to some of us, that makes a difference.
06-16-2019, 06:18 PM - 1 Like   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I love it when someone calls that poor old nag out of the barn.
And yes, full frame is better because it's full frame.
645 is better still, because it's 645.
This is a game where real estate matters.
Everything else is a compromise, not better.
What are the criteria you're basing that on, Bill? If you're referring to image quality at comparable fields of view with comparable quality glass, then maybe so. But that's just one set of criteria.

I maintain each format is better than the others in certain applications. No single format outstrips all the others when it comes to image quality, performance, praciticality and cost.

My small sensor Q7 is - to me - better than my APS-C K-3 and your K-1 in some of my use cases
06-16-2019, 06:27 PM   #67
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OK, and I admit now that this is a silly point, but I am looking at the pictures of the KP and the K-1 and I notice that both have asymmetric strap lugs, unlike the K-r and K-30 in which they are symmetrical flat bars. I'm sure I'd get used to it but I am wondering *why* Pentax did this? It is bothering my camera feng shui.

06-16-2019, 07:23 PM - 1 Like   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
What are the criteria you're basing that on, Bill? If you're referring to image quality at comparable fields of view with comparable quality glass, then maybe so. But that's just one set of criteria.
Not maybe so Mike, so.. More real estate = better picture. Every other criteria is a compromise. You don't want to carry an 8x10 view camera on a 20 mile hike? I get that. I wouldn't even want to try the 20 mile hike. But, taking a smaller camera is a compromise. You are trading quality for convenience and not having a heart attack halfway there. There is nothing wrong with that, life is all about compromise.
I can't afford a 645 or larger camera, so I compromise with the K1
However, I am compromising less with it than I was with my K3.
Don't pretend your Pentax Q is going to give a better image than a larger sensor camera.
It won't. Had you chosen to find some way of not compromising and had taken the bigger camera on your hike, you would have gotten better pictures.


---------- Post added 06-16-19 at 08:28 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
You really shouldn't skip the following two statements



In fact, "better" does depend on what you are doing.

In some situations, most photos of animals for example, pixel density is important, because a small pixel density will force you to use a much longer lens to put as many pixels on the subject. In most cases, this measure favors APS-C.
No, it doesn't favour APS-C, better quality favours a longer lens. APS-C is a compromise.
QuoteQuote:

In all situations, age of sensor makes a big difference - continual progress means that a recent APS-C sensor is better than a FF in every case.
There are large frame sensors that are as new as the newest APS-C, The larger sensor gives better quality.
Every time.
Real estate matters.

QuoteQuote:

FF cameras tend to weigh more than APS-C cameras; to some of us, that makes a difference.
Sure, but the smaller sensor is a compromise. You are compromising quality for portability.

And with that, I'm afraid I have to bow out of this thread, so I won't be able to defend my views further.

Last edited by Wheatfield; 06-16-2019 at 07:31 PM.
06-16-2019, 07:31 PM - 2 Likes   #69
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I live in the Wausau Wi area. I never get down to Madison. But if you ever get up here, buy me a cup of coffee at the local McD's and I'll let you try out one of my K-1 cameras. Be sure to bring your own SD card so you can take your images home for post processing.

I never owned the KP, but did own the K70. All of them have pixel shift - a must have feature for me. The ergonomics of the K-1 is great for me, but too big for my little wife's hands.

Last edited by Fenwoodian; 06-16-2019 at 09:14 PM.
06-16-2019, 07:38 PM - 1 Like   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Not maybe so Mike, so.. More real estate = better picture. Every other criteria is a compromise. You don't want to carry an 8x10 view camera on a 20 mile hike? I get that. I wouldn't even want to try the 20 mile hike. But, taking a smaller camera is a compromise. You are trading quality for convenience and not having a heart attack halfway there. There is nothing wrong with that, life is all about compromise.
I can't afford a 645 or larger camera, so I compromise with the K1
However, I am compromising less with it than I was with my K3.
Don't pretend your Pentax Q is going to give a better image than a larger sensor camera.
It won't. Had you chosen to find some way of not compromising and had taken the bigger camera on your hike, you would have gotten better pictures.
.

I don't agree with your comment that the Pentax Q never takes better photos than a big camera.

For example, I've owned Pentax Q's and K-1's; when it comes to product photos where I need the greatest DOF without focus stitching, nothing you can put on a K-1 will compare with the terrific DOF you get from the Q. So, for product/still-life shots that require everything in deep focus with just one shot, a Pentax Q with the 01 lens will beat a Pentax K-1 with any lens you care to put on it.

Last edited by Fenwoodian; 06-16-2019 at 08:19 PM.
06-16-2019, 08:23 PM - 1 Like   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Really?
Yes and no, but yes somehow when looking close.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 06-16-2019 at 08:47 PM.
06-16-2019, 08:46 PM - 1 Like   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by madison_wi_gal Quote
OK, and I admit now that this is a silly point, but I am looking at the pictures of the KP and the K-1 and I notice that both have asymmetric strap lugs, unlike the K-r and K-30 in which they are symmetrical flat bars. I'm sure I'd get used to it but I am wondering *why* Pentax did this? It is bothering my camera feng shui.
It's the same with my K-3 II. I think those strap lugs allow a little more freedom of movement for straps at the connection point than the ones more integrated into the body (like the K-30, K-70, etc). On the K-3 II the lug locations are basically the only places they could be - if the lug on the grip side were moved it would interfere with my hand on the grip, and the lug on the opposite side has no place else to go - the mic port is close to it.

Last edited by luftfluss; 06-16-2019 at 08:52 PM.
06-16-2019, 09:13 PM - 1 Like   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
It's easy, it's a matter of depth of field / subject isolation, and print size.
- full frame does subject isolation a little better than apsc, good for portraits
- for prints in photobooks and magazines, apsc is good enough, and there is still margin for small posters
dont know about "subject isolation", but am very sure that images captured by KP, using the highest resolution offered by the KP, has much more than just "margin for small posters".

But of course, that will depend on what is meant by "small posters".
Altho am very sure KP images can print even up to hardcopy size of 1metre by 70cm and still be able to go for bigger sized prints.

Have printed before, 5R and 8R size images from just an image that has filesize of about 1.2MB (is a scanned image from film).

Initially, was wondering whether 1.3MB, 1.5MB filesize be fine to print 5R to 8R, and wanted to scan it to 5MB, 6MB.

But the shop i go to scan my film images advised not to waste funds and believe them it will be fine.

And it all came out more than perfectly fine.
06-16-2019, 09:58 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
.
I live in the Wausau Wi area. I never get down to Madison. But if you ever get up here, buy me a cup of coffee at the local McD's and I'll let you try out one of my K-1 cameras. Be sure to bring your own SD card so you can take your images home for post processing.

I never owned the KP, but did own the K70. All of them have pixel shift - a must have feature for me. The ergonomics of the K-1 is great for me, but too big for my little wife's hands.
Deal. I plan to take a road trip to Phillips some weekend this summer for a custom fishing rod, Wausau is on the way. I'll ping when the time is closer.
06-17-2019, 01:05 AM - 3 Likes   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Not maybe so Mike, so.. More real estate = better picture. Every other criteria is a compromise. You don't want to carry an 8x10 view camera on a 20 mile hike? I get that. I wouldn't even want to try the 20 mile hike. But, taking a smaller camera is a compromise. You are trading quality for convenience and not having a heart attack halfway there. There is nothing wrong with that, life is all about compromise.
I can't afford a 645 or larger camera, so I compromise with the K1
However, I am compromising less with it than I was with my K3.
Agreed I just wanted to clarify the basis on which you were stating full frame is better than APS-C, and - as I thought - it's image quality. APS-C is indeed a compromise here, in just the same way (as you point out) that a larger format is a compromise over a smaller format if you're going on a 20 mile hike.

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Don't pretend your Pentax Q is going to give a better image than a larger sensor camera.
I never have, and never will

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
It won't. Had you chosen to find some way of not compromising and had taken the bigger camera on your hike, you would have gotten better pictures.
But the pictures I get from the Q7 are infinitely better than those I never took because I left my full frame or APS-C gear at home. My point being, there are situations where my Q7 is better than my K-3 or my Hasselblad HV, because I don't want to (often, can't) carry those with me, especially with a brace of suitable lenses. If I'd chosen to take my bigger, heavier gear with me, I'd be compromising on mobility. In this instance, the Q7 is better... not in terms of image quality, but practicality.

It's a very personal thing, though. I love my HV and the lenses I have for it... but I use it much less and take far fewer shots with it than my K-3, simply because of the size and weight. For me, a decent, modern APS-C kit hits a sweet spot in the balance between image quality, performance and practicality. For other folks, they'll be happier with even smaller micro 4/3 gear, or won't mind the extra heft and be happy using full frame kit, in which case they will indeed reap the benefits where image quality's concerned...
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