Parting ways after all these years

jocko_nc · 10-10-2008, 12:54 PM

It seems to me that if I were a pro at anything, I would need to have the absolute BEST with money being NO CONSIDERATION. I don't see how that necessarily relates to the merits of a Pentax DSLR.

graphicgr8s · 10-10-2008, 01:17 PM

Man, there isn't a perfect anything for anything. 95% of my woodworking tools are Porter-Cable but I have the other 5% because they do a better job in one particular area. I have 2 brands of the same tool but in some instances one outperforms the other. I love my P-C stuff but every once in a while I need the other one. Just like cameras. You wouldn't use a Hassie for sports, would you? Or a Town Car for a drag race (Okay, I'm talking stock engine here). If the Canikon has features that you need to make a living at then have at it. It's always the right tool for the job. My K10 and my other film cameras support the shooting I do. But it's nothing where I need the FPS. Just keep the Pentax around for those really important shots where it's quality over quantity.

Delgado · 10-10-2008, 02:33 PM

Just to introduce a little perspective into this agony; has anyone ever wondered how Benjamin Kanarek manages in an industry that shows no mercy with his, apparently, sub-standard Pentax gear against all those Nikon and Canon shooters? Perhaps its got something to do with creativity, professionalism, and confidence. I find myself wondering about how much any of us should care about the views of a group of pros whose chief measure of a successful day (if I've read this correctly) is nothing more than shots in focus.

Perhaps there are better people to work with. Running with the pack often costs you more than just money.

jeffkrol · 10-10-2008, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by jocko_nc

It seems to me that if I were a pro at anything, I would need to have the absolute BEST with money being NO CONSIDERATION. I don't see how that necessarily relates to the merits of a Pentax DSLR.

Fantasy.... money doesn't translate to the BEST in regards to many factors. Some of which include ease of use, comfort, and sooo many other intangables....

k100d · 10-10-2008, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by Delgado

Just to introduce a little perspective into this agony; has anyone ever wondered how Benjamin Kanarek manages in an industry that shows no mercy with his, apparently, sub-standard Pentax gear against all those Nikon and Canon shooters? Perhaps its got something to do with creativity, professionalism, and confidence. I find myself wondering about how much any of us should care about the views of a group of pros whose chief measure of a successful day (if I've read this correctly) is nothing more than shots in focus.

we're talking action photography here not studio work

even if the K20D had awesome action AF, Pentax has a weak telephoto lineup

deejjjaaaa · 10-10-2008, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by Delgado

I find myself wondering about how much any of us should care about the views of a group of pros whose chief measure of a successful day (if I've read this correctly) is nothing more than shots in focus.

did it happen you to go for a blood test and encounter a nurse that can't find the right spot w/ a needle ? painful... but beautiful - all those bluish-reddish colors, collapsed veins... see - sometimes you just need the damn thing in focus.

**barondla** · 10-10-2008, 07:13 PM

Actually amazed that a true pro would put up with such baloney as how high a percentage of their shots were keepers because of focus. They either get the job done or they don't. How many times was the Mona Lisa painted before we got the final one? Who the heck cares.

Not sure that even 10fps will do what you think about catching certain events. Have played with the 21 fps burst on K20D and was surprised how far things moved between those shoots!

Understand the focus speed problem. It does need to be faster. Will be some day.
thanks
barondla

Check out POINT & SHOOT CONTEST #11 WINNERS in P&S forum. Enter #12. Any brand camera. Any subject. Enter now!

cwood · 10-10-2008, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by barondla

Actually amazed that a true pro would put up with such baloney as how high a percentage of their shots were keepers because of focus. They either get the job done or they don't. How many times was the Mona Lisa painted before we got the final one? Who the heck cares.

Not sure that even 10fps will do what you think about catching certain events. Have played with the 21 fps burst on K20D and was surprised how far things moved between those shoots!

Understand the focus speed problem. It does need to be faster. Will be some day.
thanks
barondla

hmmm. I Didn't really plan on jumping in to the discussion again but what the heck I guess. BTW I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to communicate with that first sentence. Are you saying "If I was a true pro I would not put up with someone demanding such a high percentage of my shots be in focus?".

Not all photography is art. Ben creates fantastic art with his Pentax. Sometimes I try to create art. Sometimes I'm just trying to catch the action. What I do at these events some might consider to be the photographic equivalent to digging a ditch. Its a grunt job that involves repetitive tasks for hours on end. But you still need the right tool for the job. That's all I'm really saying. I've been using Pentax as my primary tool forever. Now I'm going to have to switch because they don't make the tool I need. I'm not planning on doing a complete switch over because my Pentax gear is still good for some of the work I do (weddings, reunions etc) but I guess I'll have to see how cumbersome it is to have 2 completely different systems in the long run.

The event in question, by the way, was a triathlon. 6 shooters for the three events plus the finish line. Lots of first time participants like to buy their photo after the race. I get ONE chance to get a picture of EVERY person coming past me. If my percentages are low then the company needs to hire more photographers to make sure that there is a good pic of: 1) the swim transition 2) the run 3) the bike 4) the finish line. Chances are that the course is crowded enough that not every shot will be "Good" but hopefully there is at least one great shot (which really makes the sale) and the others in-focus shots to go with the package. There is absolutely no reason I should have out of focus pictures with these very easy shots. This is not something where the company needs just one really good shot to use for advertising. Every single person that goes past me is a potential customer who will want to buy the photo I just took.

So in regards to the Mona Lisa... I'm not trying to make the Mona Lisa. I'm just trying to take a picture that is in focus. I get ONE chance and that's it. The person may have their eyes closed or their finger up their nose but those are things I have less control over. If I can get a camera that has a better focus system then obviously that is what I'm going to do.

jadedrakerider · 10-10-2008, 11:17 PM

Originally posted by kunik

Not all photography is art. ... Sometimes I try to create art. Sometimes I'm just trying to catch the action.

Kunik-
When you're right, you're right.

When I shoot Pentax, I shoot black & white because I abhor color film. But when I shoot something to be artsy, I shoot with my trusty ME Super. However, for my photography classes at NAU, my grade can't afford me being artsy or experimental with anything before I hit the shutter button.

Digitally, I shoot with a Canon Rebel, and I can't express my frustration when focus (both manual and auto) is just a hair off. Yeah, it's lovely focus on that person's nose, but it's the eyes I had envisioned in focus.

Sometimes it's about the craft, not the art.

**barondla** · 10-11-2008, 06:33 AM

Kunik not aiming at you in particular. Talking about all the people working for this company.

If you only get one shot why not put camera on manual focus. Prefocus at the spot you want them at, and hit the shutter when they run into it. How sports was done before Af came around. Still deadly reliable.
Pro friend told me about a 150lb asian guy that would shoot NFL football with Nikon 600 f4, no monopod. He would bring lens up to his eye (handheld) and focus manually at 5 frames a second! All the other pros were amazed at his shots.
thanks
barondla

Check out POINT & SHOOT CONTEST #11 WINNERS in P&S forum. Enter #12. Any brand camera. Any subject. Enter now.

jeffkpotter · 10-11-2008, 02:21 PM

Sorry if I sound a bit sour, but how can anybody think about radical upgrading in sinking times like these? You would have to be either independently wealthy, or mentally insane. I'm going to assume you are the former.

jocko_nc · 10-11-2008, 08:00 PM

I'm having a ball with my Pentax. It was a great value. My top drawer is full of K mount lenses, it is such a hoot being able to play with so many of them. So many fine lenses, at that.

RichWich · 10-12-2008, 08:25 AM

Realistically, no one camera can do it all. I grew up with Pentax--from the 60's and use a K10D--but also use a Canon 40D. K10D does things the 40D can't and vise versa. The difference is enough to warrant the two cameras (works for me). Note-this is a very costly avenue--and can really agrivate your spouse. I do enjoy both cameras very much. Also, purchased an M42 to EF adapter to use takumar's and Yashicon on the 40D--as I feel the Canon L's are good but over priced.

**Canada_Rockies** · 10-12-2008, 10:24 AM

I drive a Toyota Tundra rather than a Mercedes for the simple reason that the Tundra will do something the Mercedes cannot do - tow a fifth wheel trailer. If you need an Olympus with the movable LCD because your camera is always down in the dirt taking pictures of insects, get an Olympus. If you need 9 fps to get the "money" shots get a camera that will expose and focus properly at 9 fps.

I love Pentaxes for the feel of the images. Every camera brand has a feel to its lenses that is unique. I have been using Pentax for 47 years now, and have no reason to change.

Get the system that makes you comfortable or productive. Don't listen too much to the die hard Pentaxians such as myself. We are biased and opinionated and too proud to admit that Pentaxes will not do everything we want.

Rico · 10-12-2008, 10:53 AM

The only thing I can add to this discussion is count on a lot of out of focus images with any brand shooting at wide open apertures like f2.8. Especially moving targets.

10-10-2008, 02:33 PM	#18
Delgado Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: London Posts: 71	Perspective Just to introduce a little perspective into this agony; has anyone ever wondered how Benjamin Kanarek manages in an industry that shows no mercy with his, apparently, sub-standard Pentax gear against all those Nikon and Canon shooters? Perhaps its got something to do with creativity, professionalism, and confidence. I find myself wondering about how much any of us should care about the views of a group of pros whose chief measure of a successful day (if I've read this correctly) is nothing more than shots in focus. Perhaps there are better people to work with. Running with the pack often costs you more than just money.

10-11-2008, 02:21 PM	#26
jeffkpotter Guest	Sorry if I sound a bit sour, but how can anybody think about radical upgrading in sinking times like these? You would have to be either independently wealthy, or mentally insane. I'm going to assume you are the former. Last edited by jeffkpotter; 10-11-2008 at 02:52 PM.

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10-10-2008, 12:54 PM	#16
jocko_nc Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: NC USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 251	It seems to me that if I were a pro at anything, I would need to have the absolute BEST with money being NO CONSIDERATION. I don't see how that necessarily relates to the merits of a Pentax DSLR.

10-10-2008, 01:17 PM	#17
graphicgr8s Guest	Man, there isn't a perfect anything for anything. 95% of my woodworking tools are Porter-Cable but I have the other 5% because they do a better job in one particular area. I have 2 brands of the same tool but in some instances one outperforms the other. I love my P-C stuff but every once in a while I need the other one. Just like cameras. You wouldn't use a Hassie for sports, would you? Or a Town Car for a drag race (Okay, I'm talking stock engine here). If the Canikon has features that you need to make a living at then have at it. It's always the right tool for the job. My K10 and my other film cameras support the shooting I do. But it's nothing where I need the FPS. Just keep the Pentax around for those really important shots where it's quality over quantity.

10-10-2008, 02:52 PM	#19
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by jocko_nc It seems to me that if I were a pro at anything, I would need to have the absolute BEST with money being NO CONSIDERATION. I don't see how that necessarily relates to the merits of a Pentax DSLR. Fantasy.... money doesn't translate to the BEST in regards to many factors. Some of which include ease of use, comfort, and sooo many other intangables....

10-10-2008, 02:53 PM	#20
k100d Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,911	Originally posted by Delgado Just to introduce a little perspective into this agony; has anyone ever wondered how Benjamin Kanarek manages in an industry that shows no mercy with his, apparently, sub-standard Pentax gear against all those Nikon and Canon shooters? Perhaps its got something to do with creativity, professionalism, and confidence. I find myself wondering about how much any of us should care about the views of a group of pros whose chief measure of a successful day (if I've read this correctly) is nothing more than shots in focus. we're talking action photography here not studio work even if the K20D had awesome action AF, Pentax has a weak telephoto lineup

10-10-2008, 03:43 PM	#21
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by Delgado I find myself wondering about how much any of us should care about the views of a group of pros whose chief measure of a successful day (if I've read this correctly) is nothing more than shots in focus. did it happen you to go for a blood test and encounter a nurse that can't find the right spot w/ a needle ? painful... but beautiful - all those bluish-reddish colors, collapsed veins... see - sometimes you just need the damn thing in focus.

10-10-2008, 07:13 PM	#22
barondla Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: midwest, United States Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,714	Actually amazed that a true pro would put up with such baloney as how high a percentage of their shots were keepers because of focus. They either get the job done or they don't. How many times was the Mona Lisa painted before we got the final one? Who the heck cares. Not sure that even 10fps will do what you think about catching certain events. Have played with the 21 fps burst on K20D and was surprised how far things moved between those shoots! Understand the focus speed problem. It does need to be faster. Will be some day. thanks barondla Check out POINT & SHOOT CONTEST #11 WINNERS in P&S forum. Enter #12. Any brand camera. Any subject. Enter now!

10-10-2008, 07:54 PM	#23
cwood Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: California Posts: 851 Original Poster	Originally posted by barondla Actually amazed that a true pro would put up with such baloney as how high a percentage of their shots were keepers because of focus. They either get the job done or they don't. How many times was the Mona Lisa painted before we got the final one? Who the heck cares. Not sure that even 10fps will do what you think about catching certain events. Have played with the 21 fps burst on K20D and was surprised how far things moved between those shoots! Understand the focus speed problem. It does need to be faster. Will be some day. thanks barondla hmmm. I Didn't really plan on jumping in to the discussion again but what the heck I guess. BTW I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to communicate with that first sentence. Are you saying "If I was a true pro I would not put up with someone demanding such a high percentage of my shots be in focus?". Not all photography is art. Ben creates fantastic art with his Pentax. Sometimes I try to create art. Sometimes I'm just trying to catch the action. What I do at these events some might consider to be the photographic equivalent to digging a ditch. Its a grunt job that involves repetitive tasks for hours on end. But you still need the right tool for the job. That's all I'm really saying. I've been using Pentax as my primary tool forever. Now I'm going to have to switch because they don't make the tool I need. I'm not planning on doing a complete switch over because my Pentax gear is still good for some of the work I do (weddings, reunions etc) but I guess I'll have to see how cumbersome it is to have 2 completely different systems in the long run. The event in question, by the way, was a triathlon. 6 shooters for the three events plus the finish line. Lots of first time participants like to buy their photo after the race. I get ONE chance to get a picture of EVERY person coming past me. If my percentages are low then the company needs to hire more photographers to make sure that there is a good pic of: 1) the swim transition 2) the run 3) the bike 4) the finish line. Chances are that the course is crowded enough that not every shot will be "Good" but hopefully there is at least one great shot (which really makes the sale) and the others in-focus shots to go with the package. There is absolutely no reason I should have out of focus pictures with these very easy shots. This is not something where the company needs just one really good shot to use for advertising. Every single person that goes past me is a potential customer who will want to buy the photo I just took. So in regards to the Mona Lisa... I'm not trying to make the Mona Lisa. I'm just trying to take a picture that is in focus. I get ONE chance and that's it. The person may have their eyes closed or their finger up their nose but those are things I have less control over. If I can get a camera that has a better focus system then obviously that is what I'm going to do.

10-10-2008, 11:17 PM	#24
jadedrakerider Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Mohave Valley, AZ Photos: Gallery Posts: 214	Originally posted by kunik Not all photography is art. ... Sometimes I try to create art. Sometimes I'm just trying to catch the action. Kunik- When you're right, you're right. When I shoot Pentax, I shoot black & white because I abhor color film. But when I shoot something to be artsy, I shoot with my trusty ME Super. However, for my photography classes at NAU, my grade can't afford me being artsy or experimental with anything before I hit the shutter button. Digitally, I shoot with a Canon Rebel, and I can't express my frustration when focus (both manual and auto) is just a hair off. Yeah, it's lovely focus on that person's nose, but it's the eyes I had envisioned in focus. Sometimes it's about the craft, not the art.

10-11-2008, 06:33 AM	#25
barondla Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: midwest, United States Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,714	Kunik not aiming at you in particular. Talking about all the people working for this company. If you only get one shot why not put camera on manual focus. Prefocus at the spot you want them at, and hit the shutter when they run into it. How sports was done before Af came around. Still deadly reliable. Pro friend told me about a 150lb asian guy that would shoot NFL football with Nikon 600 f4, no monopod. He would bring lens up to his eye (handheld) and focus manually at 5 frames a second! All the other pros were amazed at his shots. thanks barondla Check out POINT & SHOOT CONTEST #11 WINNERS in P&S forum. Enter #12. Any brand camera. Any subject. Enter now.

10-11-2008, 08:00 PM	#27
jocko_nc Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: NC USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 251	I'm having a ball with my Pentax. It was a great value. My top drawer is full of K mount lenses, it is such a hoot being able to play with so many of them. So many fine lenses, at that.

10-12-2008, 08:25 AM	#28
RichWich New Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 9	Realistically, no one camera can do it all. I grew up with Pentax--from the 60's and use a K10D--but also use a Canon 40D. K10D does things the 40D can't and vise versa. The difference is enough to warrant the two cameras (works for me). Note-this is a very costly avenue--and can really agrivate your spouse. I do enjoy both cameras very much. Also, purchased an M42 to EF adapter to use takumar's and Yashicon on the 40D--as I feel the Canon L's are good but over priced.

10-12-2008, 10:24 AM	#29
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385	I drive a Toyota Tundra rather than a Mercedes for the simple reason that the Tundra will do something the Mercedes cannot do - tow a fifth wheel trailer. If you need an Olympus with the movable LCD because your camera is always down in the dirt taking pictures of insects, get an Olympus. If you need 9 fps to get the "money" shots get a camera that will expose and focus properly at 9 fps. I love Pentaxes for the feel of the images. Every camera brand has a feel to its lenses that is unique. I have been using Pentax for 47 years now, and have no reason to change. Get the system that makes you comfortable or productive. Don't listen too much to the die hard Pentaxians such as myself. We are biased and opinionated and too proud to admit that Pentaxes will not do everything we want.

10-12-2008, 10:53 AM	#30
Rico Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,204	The only thing I can add to this discussion is count on a lot of out of focus images with any brand shooting at wide open apertures like f2.8. Especially moving targets.