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07-10-2019, 03:51 AM   #1
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PDAF in LV mode, K-5 -> K-3 -> K-1

When I had the K-5, I remember well that it was possible to focus the lens with PDAF in LV mode. In live view, the mirror would go down, the K-5 would focus, mirror back up again and capture the image. Ricoh removed that feature on the K3, and it's not in the K1 either. Too bad, when LV is enabled, CDAF moving the lens focus back and forth is rather slow and sometimes misses. Why did Ricoh remove that PDAF switch feature in LV mode?!?...

Other thing: why on the K1, SR can be enabled with 2s. timer, but SR is disabled when MLU is enabled, that's beyond me. There are two MLU modes, MLU set by shutter button, and MLU set with remote IR control. If I set MLU with the shutter button, what's the point of MLU when my finger has to press the shutter again to take the picture, adding camera shake with SR disabled. So if I want MLU for 1s. and take the shot I can't have SR enabled. Why can't Ricoh change that in a firmware update?


Last edited by biz-engineer; 07-10-2019 at 06:32 AM.
07-10-2019, 05:37 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Why did Ricoh remove that PDAF switch feature in LV mode?!?
I had no idea the K5 could do that ! But what would be the advantage of that option ? i can understand that if LV AF is too slow then it makes sense to rely on PDAF, but why not just not use LV when one needs fast AF ?

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Too bad, when LV enable ES
Maybe I am misunderstanding you here, but LV does not automatically enable ES, you have the option to use ES or not.

---------- Post added 07-10-19 at 02:00 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Other thing: why on the K1, SR can be enabled with 2s. timer, but SR is disabled when MLU is enabled, that's beyond me. There are two MLU modes, MLU set by shutter button, and MLU set with remote IR control. If I set MLU with the shutter button, what's the point of MLU when my finger has to press the shutter again to take the picture, adding camera shake with SR disabled. So if I want MLU for 1s. and take the shot I can't have SR enabled. Why can't Ricoh change that in a firmware update?
Now this intrigued me and I had to test it out on my K1. You are quite correct, the auto-SR OFF setting can be disabled (thereby leaving SR on) for remote and timer modes, but not for MLU shooting. Seems an oversight to me given that they allow it for remote/timer shooting.. Although of course most MLU work will be on a tripod with a remote and SR is not advised on a tripod.
07-10-2019, 06:39 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
but why not just not use LV when one needs fast AF ?
Because if I press the shutter button for PDAF AF and switch to LV, when I press the shutter again the CDAF does its moves.

QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
Maybe I am misunderstanding you here, but LV does not automatically enable ES, you have the option to use ES or not.
Edited.

QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
the auto-SR OFF setting can be disabled (thereby leaving SR on) for remote and timer modes, but not for MLU shooting
Camera menu C21 says "2.) Disable Auto SR Off: SR is on when shooting with a remote control units or self-timer."
MLU can also be set with IR remote control, but it still switches off SR.

So for me, it's a firmware bug. The 2s and 10s timers also raise the mirror, but if I want to use MLU for other than 2s. or 10s. hand-held, I was expecting SR to stay enabled. Because it is not possible to program a time delay other than 2s or 10s.

---------- Post added 10-07-19 at 15:43 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
Although of course most MLU work will be on a tripod with a remote and SR is not advised on a tripod.
The reason why I want to use MLU hand-held is because when I use the D-FA28-105 , the mirror causes some blur even at 1/50th and 1/100th shutter speeds (I've tested this). If I use the 2s timer, I lose sight of the scene in the OVF for 2 seconds, 2 seconds is too long. If I enable MLU, and do a second press to take the shot, it works but SR is disabled, so any move induced but pressing the shutter button isn't reduced by SR as it would if I'd use the 2s timer.

Anyway, if SR can be enabled with 2s timer, why can't SR still be enabled with MLU. If MLU is replaced by timers, then why not just get rid of MLU completely and replace it by a programmable timer (like other camera brands do now).

Last edited by biz-engineer; 07-10-2019 at 06:46 AM.
07-10-2019, 09:33 AM   #4
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Maybe the lack of SR in MLU mode is related to the fact that this would not work reliably with the K-1's larger sensor?

As for the old live view PDAF option (which lowers the mirror to focus, then re-engages live view once focus is locked), it was probably removed because of how clunky it was. I doubt many people used it, and perhaps it even confused users. Whatever model comes next should solve this issue with on-sensor PDAF instead.

07-10-2019, 10:46 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Maybe the lack of SR in MLU mode is related to the fact that this would not work reliably with the K-1's larger sensor?
If so, why would SR be enabled with the 2 s. and 10 s. timers?


Checking MLU vs timer:

- the 2 s. timer locks focus + exposure parameters, raises the mirror and closes the lens diaphragm, wait 2 s., then exposures the sensor
- the 10 s. timer locks focus + exposure parameters, raises the mirror, waits 10 s., closes the lens diaphragm, then exposes the sensor
- MLU does the same as the 2 s. timer, except the delay can be from 0 s. to 1 minute.

So I guess there isn't a technical limitation, more of a legacy definition of what MLU was aimed at.: maximum sharpness on a tripod.


QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
As for the old live view PDAF option (which lowers the mirror to focus, then re-engages live view once focus is locked), it was probably removed because of how clunky it was. I doubt many people used it
I used it a couple of times to check that it worked on the K5. On the K1 it's different for me , because I like to use live view with EFCS with the DFA150-450 (on a gimbal) because EFCS deliver crisp apsc crops at 450mm (as opposed to shooting through the OVF), the problem is by the time CDAF locked focus the bird is often gone. Also, even if I prefocus, CDAF still does it's routine, pre-focusing the lens seldom makes CDAF locks faster.

---------- Post added 10-07-19 at 19:48 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Whatever model comes next should solve this issue with on-sensor PDAF instead.
Hopefully the next apsc model will deliver more AF speed and more resolution out of the D-FA 150-450.
07-10-2019, 11:34 AM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
If so, why would SR be enabled with the 2 s. and 10 s. timers?
My guess is that since the camera has full control over what happens in these two modes (i.e. it doesn't have to be prepared to release the shutter at an arbitrary point in time when the shutter button is pressed), it can configure the SR system accordingly.

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07-10-2019, 12:58 PM   #7
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It is always going to be a guessing game trying to decide why the K1 was configured this way.

The practical solution is to use a remote and if possible ES when using a tripod. You won't have any issues then.
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