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07-11-2019, 06:51 PM - 4 Likes   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
For pedanticness sake we better take it as" Two Letter Acronym" as well!
Pedantic? Us? Never!!!





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07-11-2019, 06:58 PM - 1 Like   #32
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Just as well f as in fstop is a symbol otherwise we would have had to find a new acronym for our acronyms!
07-11-2019, 07:04 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
International Organization for Standardization - Wikipedia

Agree, however, that it is not an acronym, per se.
Technically, there is no requirement that the letters be in the order of the words in the related phrase to be an acronym; just that it's composed of the first letter or letters to create and abbreviation that is pronounced as a word. Thus, ISO could be an acronym. I suspect the story of it being in reference to the Greek word isos (meaning "equal") was back-filled due to difficulty registering a trademark that is an acronym.

FWIW, TLA, LBA, FBI and similar are initialisms, not acronyms because they are not pronounced as a word. At least they're all abbreviations.

Too bad none of this will help me to be a better photographer. At least it passes the time.

Last edited by rogerstg; 07-11-2019 at 07:09 PM.
07-11-2019, 07:12 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by rogerstg Quote
Technically, there is no requirement that the letters be in the order of the words in the related phrase to be an acronym; just that it's composed of the first letter or letters to create and abbreviation that is pronounced as a word. Thus, ISO could be an acronym. I suspect the story of it being in reference to the Greek word isos (meaning "equal") was back-filled due to difficulty registering a trademark that is an acronym.

FWIW, TLA, LBA, FBI and similar are initialisms, not acronyms because they are not pronounced as a word. At least they're all abbreviations.

Too bad none of this will help me to be a better photographer. At least it passes the time.
But why - given all the ISO standards they do did they decide to give the name ISO to a unit of something as obscure as film sensitivity?

07-11-2019, 07:59 PM   #35
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Publications often use acronyms/abbreviations that send me scanning back over what I had just read in order to find the first place they had used it. Sadly, the practice of always putting the meaning alongside the first use, has fallen out of use. This laziness can be very frustrating to the reader, especially when unfamiliar organizations are referred to. It is a courtesy to always put the acronym's first display alongside the full word meaning. This is not to imply that those who are familiar with, say, 'SLR' in a forum like this need to do this, but if they were writing for a lay audience it would help with comprehension.
07-11-2019, 08:48 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
But why - given all the ISO standards they do did they decide to give the name ISO to a unit of something as obscure as film sensitivity?
The name ISO in regards to film speed is photographer's jargon in much the same way that ISO in regards to CD disk image is jargon. In both cases "ISO" refers to a particular standard, though without the standard number. In regards to film sensitivity, the number is unitless. Similar usage was applied for ASA and DIN standards for the same...oh, yes, and GOST.


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07-11-2019, 09:07 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
The name ISO in regards to film speed is photographer's jargon in much the same way that ISO in regards to CD disk image is jargon. In both cases "ISO" refers to a particular standard, though without the standard number. In regards to film sensitivity, the number is unitless. Similar usage was applied for ASA and DIN standards for the same...oh, yes, and GOST.


Steve
Yeahnaa - jargon would imply it evolved into common usage informally but it is identical to asa isn't it? So why didn't people just carry on saying asa ? Someone must have designated the term.
07-11-2019, 09:30 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
Yeahnaa - jargon would imply it evolved into common usage informally but it is identical to asa isn't it? So why didn't people just carry on saying asa ? Someone must have designated the term.
Maybe they (who ever they is ) wanted to differenchiate digital from film

07-11-2019, 09:35 PM - 1 Like   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
Yeahnaa - jargon would imply it evolved into common usage informally but it is identical to asa isn't it? So why didn't people just carry on saying asa ? Someone must have designated the term.
It is the same scale as ASA, but even ASA was jargon reinforced by product labeling and use of the abbreviation on meters. The label would say "ASA 100/DIN 21 Film Speed" or similar. What we called ASA was actually a family of equivalent standards for various film types originating with the American Standards Association with eventual merger with the ISO 2240 standard. By that time ASA was ANSI, but we still called film speed ASA. It was not until the mid-1980s that the ISO standard was universally adopted by film makers despite it being a fairly easy task in that the scales were the same and the methods equivalent.

With the boxes and meters now reading ISO or ISO/ASA, users switched to using the term ISO as a generic reference to film sensitivity. There was no proclamation that I remember and nobody really cared about the actual standard number, though even as a 13 year-old in 1968, I knew that the rating was set by the ASA standards body and that the "DIN" on the box and meters referred to the German standards body.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_speed#ASA


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 07-11-2019 at 09:41 PM.
07-11-2019, 10:03 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Moderating note: I've removed the second TLA in the original title. Thankfully, this was a TLA rather than the actual words, but best to keep things clean in a family-friendly forum
Out of curiosity, what are some of the TLA's that have confounded you?


In this instance it was actually a couple of four-letter abbreviations rather than TLA's that sparked my ire, PDAF and CDAF. Not acronyms I'd met before and it took me several minutes to learn what was actually being talked about.


Just one of those annoyingly "cliquey" habits that has infiltrated modern language, almost as if it were designed to keep the un-knowing out of things.


I'll switch the red light back on and go back to my dev and hypo
07-11-2019, 10:48 PM   #41
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Ah that post slowed me down a bit too! But it was a four line and very valid post and in it he saved this much writing by using acronyms.

"Phase detection auto-focus liveview liveview contrast detection auto-focus phase detection auto-focus liveview shake reduction second shake reduction mirror lockup mirror lockup mirror lockup mirror lockup infrared mirror lockup mirror lockup shake reduction mirror lockup 1 second shake reduction ."


So I have symphathy for both sides.
07-11-2019, 11:06 PM - 2 Likes   #42
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07-11-2019, 11:44 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
E.g. "IBM" for International Business Machines...
Wait... I thought it was for Initials Bring Money
07-12-2019, 01:37 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by GUB Quote
Ah that post slowed me down a bit too! But it was a four line and very valid post and in it he saved this much writing by using acronyms.

"Phase detection auto-focus liveview liveview contrast detection auto-focus phase detection auto-focus liveview shake reduction second shake reduction mirror lockup mirror lockup mirror lockup mirror lockup infrared mirror lockup mirror lockup shake reduction mirror lockup 1 second shake reduction ."
So I have symphathy for both sides.


Thanks for the "symphathy" (sic) but you've over-emphasised the issue


Each phrase only needs to be typed in full out once, with the abbreviation to be used later in brackets, as in my original posting. Every subsequent usage of that particular phrase can then be referred to by the abbreviation and everyone has an immediate reference should they need it.


I'm sure there are many who look at a TLA-littered posting, think *bleep* and move on, rather than being able to help or get educated.


Just my tuppence worth - YMMV

---------- Post added 07-12-19 at 01:46 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by arnold Quote
This is not to imply that those who are familiar with, say, 'SLR' in a forum like this need to do this, but if they were writing for a lay audience it would help with comprehension.


Oh yes!! There are certain circles where "shooting with an SLR" could cause widespread panic


For the uninitiated - SLR can refer to "Single Lens Reflex", as in camera, also to "Self Loading Rifle", as in semi-automatic weapon!

---------- Post added 07-12-19 at 01:58 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Andy123 Quote
Kypfer,
I thought your request was reasonable and the “humorous” responses were sad. I see you have only been a member for a year and a half and can understand your issue. I find if the discussion has too many acronyms it probably will be a back and forth of opinions that are not that valuable. Just skip it and view the many quality pics posted in the various areas. I get way more from that anyway.

Andy


A member for a year and a half but a photographer for half a century ... it's only now that I've retired I've got the time to spend (some might suggest waste) on internet forums and the like
07-12-2019, 03:11 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by kypfer Quote
symphathy for both sides.
Dang I should have used SBS !
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